If AM played like he was 6’3” 220 it’d be closer.

Nate the great... that speed man...
plus he singlehandedly smoked the Flames in the playoffs .. which AM hasn’t been able to do as yet..

Both great players -

I get your point, but I think the GMs would find it a tough call.

Mackinnon has already taken his game to the next level, and proven himself dominant in a playoff series.

Matthews has yet to do either. It looks like he will get. He has the size and talent to get there... but he has to actually do it.
- Aetherial

The bigger point is how everyone outside of Toronto is sure that MacKinnon is the better player. It's pretty funny stuff.

You know very well, if MacKinnon was a Leaf and Matthews was on any other team, NHL GM's would be taking Matthews over MacKinnon!

omg Matthews all day, his first 4 years destroys Mac..
nate guy averaged like 50 points.

you take AM all (frank)in day

I'm not anti-Leaf (well, within the division - yes - frank the Leafs).
But in this case I'm not taking sides (though I am upset pasrnak was not included)

Joking aside, I don't think it's unreasonable to take the last 3 years for trending purposes.

Matthews had a fast start - on a team that had a much better offensive upside, and he does have room for even more improvement. But to expect him to have similar improvment over next few years that Mackinnion had over his slow start is, IMO, unrealistic.

Just like when evaluating a hockey player over the twilight of his career. When Gretz joined St.L, are you going to project his next 4 years by including the early hall-of-fame years? Or more likely his last 4 years?
- Nasty_Duck

Just as an FYI, you do know for the first 2+yrs, Matthews was paired with another rookie (Nylander) and Hyman/Brown? Yet, I think he was like top 2 or 3 goal scorers in the NHL 5 on 5. So not sure what you mean by he played with better talent.

Matthews PPG over first 4 seasons:
-0.84
-1.02
-1.07
-1.14

Do you see any slow down coming for Matthews at 22yrs old?! Everything he shows on the ice points towards a huge leap.

omg Matthews all day, his first 4 years destroys Mac..
nate guy averaged like 50 points.

you take AM all (frank)in day
- senstroll

You must be a stoooopid Leaf fan for saying that.

omg Matthews all day, his first 4 years destroys Mac..
nate guy averaged like 50 points.

you take AM all (frank)in day
- senstroll

Averaging all the seasons is a mistake. It is no longer trending. The two players are 2 years apart in age and have had similar seasons over last 3 years. That is what yo need to look at.

For either side to suggest it is "not even close" is naive.

I’d say it’s similar to the Crosby vs. ovi debate from ten years ago. One is an elite goal scorer, the other is better in just about every other area.

As far as where Matthews projects to be by the time he’s Mackinnon’s age depends on himself. He has definitely showed he has the ability to move into the next tier. What’s stopping him is that he turns on the switch to play like that when he wants to. If he doesn’t he will still a great goal scorer but it will be that 100% relentless game breaking effort every shift that keeps him from being in the Crosby, mcdavid, mackinnon tier

Just as an FYI, you do know for the first 2+yrs, Matthews was paired with another rookie (Nylander) and Hyman/Brown? Yet, I think he was like top 2 or 3 goal scorers in the NHL 5 on 5. So not sure what you mean by he played with better talent.

Matthews PPG over first 4 seasons:
-0.84
-1.02
-1.07
-1.14

Do you see any slow down coming for Matthews at 22yrs old?! Everything he shows on the ice points towards a huge leap.
- Cooshie

Where did I say "slow down"?
Pretty sure I said "and does have room for even more improvement". How the frank do you get "slow down" from that???

And for teams - go look at the point totals of all the players on Col for the first 4 years of Mackinnon, then do the same for Leafs and Matthews.

Am I wrong?
- RogerRoeper

I don't think I'm qualified to say, to be honest.
Let me state that I really like both players. My pick is MacKinnon because he has always carried himself as a professional, he takes over games in many ways (not just scoring) and he is proving to be a great, young leader.
Matthews is also a great player. Living in Southern Ontario, I have watched more of his games than I would really care to and I have seen a player that takes shifts off. I am aware of your favourite stat about him being 3rd in the league in takeaways. Think how good he could be if he gave 100% every shift. That trait is in a players make up and is hard to change. I hope he can, I have nothing against the kid.
But, I would still pick Mackinnon. The difference really is splitting hairs as they stand today, IMO.

On another topic, why is it Leaf fans are so quick to point out the infamous "anti-Leaf sentiment" argument, but never address how the large number of ridiculously biased or uninformed Leaf fans are the cause of it, not the players themselves?

Mac truck AIAEC

Mackinnon can carry a team and makes everyone on his line better. Matthews is the better pure scorer

its like the old Crosby vs Ovechkin debate. OV might be the best pure goal scorer in a league, but you build your team around Crosby eight days a week

I feel like Matthews might be a more complete player, whereas Nathan is a tad flashier. MacKinnon is a better skater and puck handler, Austen has a better shot, and has more grit. By a nose hair I give it to Matthews, though I could be convinced MacKinnon is better.

As a diehard Leafs fan, I’d much rather have.. MacKinnon. Gimme the speed and the compete any day

Right now if I could add 1 or the other to my Canucks, it would be MacKinnon every day of the week

I don't think I'm qualified to say, to be honest.
Let me state that I really like both players. My pick is MacKinnon because he has always carried himself as a professional, he takes over games in many ways (not just scoring) and he is proving to be a great, young leader.
Matthews is also a great player. Living in Southern Ontario, I have watched more of his games than I would really care to and I have seen a player that takes shifts off. I am aware of your favourite stat about him being 3rd in the league in takeaways. Think how good he could be if he gave 100% every shift. That trait is in a players make up and is hard to change. I hope he can, I have nothing against the kid.
But, I would still pick Mackinnon. The difference really is splitting hairs as they stand today, IMO.

On another topic, why is it Leaf fans are so quick to point out the infamous "anti-Leaf sentiment" argument, but never address how the large number of ridiculously biased or uninformed Leaf fans are the cause of it, not the players themselves?
- Tonybere

Let's be honest, people just hate the Leafs.

I don't think I'm qualified to say, to be honest.
Let me state that I really like both players. My pick is MacKinnon because he has always carried himself as a professional, he takes over games in many ways (not just scoring) and he is proving to be a great, young leader.
Matthews is also a great player. Living in Southern Ontario, I have watched more of his games than I would really care to and I have seen a player that takes shifts off. I am aware of your favourite stat about him being 3rd in the league in takeaways. Think how good he could be if he gave 100% every shift. That trait is in a players make up and is hard to change. I hope he can, I have nothing against the kid.
But, I would still pick Mackinnon. The difference really is splitting hairs as they stand today, IMO.

On another topic, why is it Leaf fans are so quick to point out the infamous "anti-Leaf sentiment" argument, but never address how the large number of ridiculously biased or uninformed Leaf fans are the cause of it, not the players themselves?
- Tonybere

I've only seen one group of people taking into account age and numbers.

I am sorry if you feel that is ridiculously biased.

omg Matthews all day, his first 4 years destroys Mac..
nate guy averaged like 50 points.

you take AM all (frank)in day
- senstroll

Mackinnon is better right now.

Any conclusion that assumes he is better going forward is willfully ignorant.

The truth is, we just don't know. I think we all know Matthews *can* be at least as good but question is, will he fulfill that potential.

Where did I say "slow down"?
Pretty sure I said "and does have room for even more improvement". How the frank do you get "slow down" from that???

And for teams - go look at the point totals of all the players on Col for the first 4 years of Mackinnon, then do the same for Leafs and Matthews.
- Nasty_Duck

Matthews wasn't even cracking top 60 for toi on forwards. You have to take into account how much more PP and overall usage Mack got every single game for years.

Serious, Matthews was the most underused forward in the NHl until Keefe arrived.

Maybe if Matthews played 24 minutes a game liek Mack in the playoffs instead of 18 the Leafs win and he plays great. He had 5 goals in 7 games as it is.

Question wasn't "Who has best career average to date?"

You are averaging Mackinnon's first few years in there on a not-so-great Col team. Don't you think his last 3 years are more of the trend you should be considering? It's not like his 90-point seasons were a fluke.
- Nasty_Duck

It's weird how you don't also recognize that Matthews started with the Leafs (as an 18 year old) the year after they finished dead last.

It's so hard to keep up with the Leaf haterz narrative - they are the worst team in the league, except when comparing individual players, because then the individual numbers are padded because they are an elite team.

Matthews wasn't even cracking top 60 for toi on forwards. You have to take into account how much more PP and overall usage Mack got every single game for years.

Serious, Matthews was the most underused forward in the NHl until Keefe arrived.

Maybe if Matthews played 24 minutes a game liek Mack in the playoffs instead of 18 the Leafs win and he plays great. He had 5 goals in 7 games as it is.
- RogerRoeper

Austin Matthews had more TOI his first 4 years than Mackinnon did.
He also had more pp goals and assists - I'd he say he had more time there too.
If you took the time to look this up you'd know this.

So try again.

It's weird how you don't also recognize that Matthews started with the Leafs (as an 18 year old) the year after they finished dead last.

It's so hard to keep up with the Leaf haterz narrative - they are the worst team in the league, except when comparing individual players, because then the individual numbers are padded because they are an elite team.
- Atomic Wedgie

Why do you assume anyone who does not pick Matthews is a Leaf hater?
I didn't choose either.
I never once said they were the worst team in the league.

The year Matthews started they also had Nylander and Kadri and Marner and JVR - all having excellent season. They scored 251 goals - pretty good supporting cast as far as points generation and also made the playoffs.

The year Mackinnon started Col scored 250 goals - pretty good and he got 63 points.
Then the wheels fell off Col bus and they scored 219 goals, then 216 goals then 166 goals - coincidentally the worst years for Mackinnon. The team had trouble scoring goals and it wasn't just Mackinnon.

Austin Matthews had more TOI his first 4 years than Mackinnon did.
He also had more pp goals and assists - I'd he say he had more time there too.
If you took the time to look this up you'd know this.

So try again.
- Nasty_Duck

Scoring more on PP doesn't equal more TOI.

Mack had more TOi the first 4 years. Matthews plyed slightly more first 2 years and years 3 and 4 mackinnon leapped him.

Question wasn't "Who has best career average to date?"

You are averaging Mackinnon's first few years in there on a not-so-great Col team. Don't you think his last 3 years are more of the trend you should be considering? It's not like his 90-point seasons were a fluke.
- Nasty_Duck

.

Every person sees a total different picture but here's what I take from all this and I'm not knocking Mac in the slightest bit.. Mac was mediocre at best until the team around him started to get a lot better and that's when he started to breakout. Matthews appears on a Leafs team that was last overall and proceeds to take them to the payoffs and posts 40 goals as a 19 year old rookie No he didn't play with Marner that year, Marner and Nylander were splitting duty on the 3rd and 4th line depending on who was in Babcock's dog house at the time.
Matthews is arguably the best 5vs5 goal scorer on the planet since entering the league. Mac on the other hand relies on the PP to produce, 1\3 of his totals come from there.
Matthews scores 5 goals in 7 games against the stingy defensive minded Stanley Cup finalist Boston Bruins and people say meh! Mac gets 6 goals in 12 games and wow man he's so dominate.
Yes Leaf fans can be bias, but its the hate of other fan bases that also causes a little bit of blindness in it all.

In a game 7 of stanley cup finals TODAY, I'm taking:

1) Crosby
2) McDavid
3a) Draisaitl
3b) Bergeron
3c) MacKinnon
6) Jack Eichel (based on intensity and recent play)
7) Auston Matthews

May change in future...

.

Every person sees a total different picture but here's what I take from all this and I'm not knocking Mac in the slightest bit.. Mac was mediocre at best until the team around him started to get a lot better and that's when he started to breakout. Matthews appears on a Leafs team that was last overall and proceeds to take them to the payoffs and posts 40 goals as a 19 year old rookie No he didn't play with Marner that year, Marner and Nylander were splitting duty on the 3rd and 4th line depending on who was in Babcock's dog house at the time.
Matthews is arguably the best 5vs5 goal scorer on the planet since entering the league. Mac on the other hand relies on the PP to produce, 1\3 of his totals come from there.
Matthews scores 5 goals in 7 games against the stingy defensive minded Stanley Cup finalist Boston Bruins and people say meh! Mac gets 6 goals in 12 games and wow man he's so dominate.
Yes Leaf fans can be bias, but its the hate of other fan bases that also causes a little bit of blindness in it all.

- Buck Norris

What hate? the leafs have been trash for 15 years now.

Averaging all the seasons is a mistake. It is no longer trending. The two players are 2 years apart in age and have had similar seasons over last 3 years. That is what yo need to look at.

For either side to suggest it is "not even close" is naive.
- Nasty_Duck

Not even close!!!!!

Actually I don't care