This is all assuming he doesn't want to just leave the organization on his own and go somewhere else.
- kingcong39

Also true

Saying that & calling it the “4th line” shows u don’t value:
-the great job they do
-against the other teams’ top lines
-in the toughest situations

U can’t just plug in rookies like Asplund & expect that line to as effective
- jdfitz77

Then I guess I don't value them because I would absolutely take Lazar at under a million over 6 million dollar Okposo.

IMO, if you are not a scoring line you are the 4th line. Would you like me to call it the checking line? OK. It's semantics. But you shouldn't presume. I do value a good checking line. But at what cost? If that 1 million or 6 million can help me get and pay for a top six forward, then I will take my chances with Lazar over Okposo or Girgs.

You also don’t have unlimited assets to fill in around them either though
- jdfitz77

EXACTLY MY POINT!!!!!!!!!

PICK A LANE!!!!!!!!!!

AM I DOING THIS WRITE??????

I honestly don't know what Larsson's market value is so you may very well be right. In the make believe roster im building, i've done a 180 on the scheme/tactics.

I want them playing high event hockey, which means running three scoring lines that can play an uptempo game. not just in terms of speed but quick transition, passing etc.

Unfortunately, that would default the log line to line 4. I dont deny how good they are together, but if im playing a high tempo scheme, I cant be paying 10+ million for a defensive line to play 10 mins a night

In an alternate world where the core players on this team have great low event/defensive upside, Id be more inclined to keep that line. But I just cant find much room for them in my vision for the team.
- Michael Ghofrani

A defensive line that plays against other teams’ top lines & flips the ice is EXTREMELY VALUABLE

A hell of a lot more valuable than a 3rd scoring line (which we could still have with them)

Determining Larsson & Girgs value should not be based off the sh!tty contract GMTM signed Okposo to
He’s not gonna be here forever

Don’t let one mistake convince u to make further

To have 3 scoring lines, you NEED a 4th line that can handle tough defensive responsibility
Like Pitt with Cullen when their last couple Cups
Like Boston’s 4th line when they win the Cup

You also don’t have unlimited assets to fill in around them either though
- jdfitz77

Ask Pittsburgh what’s it like to have two dominant centers and rotate wingers as often as I change my underwear

A defensive line that plays against other teams’ top lines & flips the ice is EXTREMELY VALUABLE

A hell of a lot more valuable than a 3rd scoring line (which we could still have with them)

Determining Larsson & Girgs value should not be based off the sh!tty contract GMTM signed Okposo to
He’s not gonna be here forever

Don’t let one mistake convince u to make further

To have 3 scoring lines, you NEED a 4th line that can handle tough defensive responsibility
Like Pitt with Cullen when their last couple Cups
Like Boston’s 4th line when they win the Cup
- jdfitz77

how many playoff games have we won with larsson and girgens?

Then I guess I don't value them because I would absolutely take Lazar at under a million over 6 million dollar Okposo.

IMO, if you are not a scoring line you are the 4th line. Would you like me to call it the checking line? OK. It's semantics. But you shouldn't presume. I do value a good checking line. But at what cost? If that 1 million or 6 million can help me get and pay for a top six forward, then I will take my chances with Lazar over Okposo or Girgs.
- Sir Tindoom

Of course everyone would take Lazar over Okposo
His contract sucks, so we are stuck with him
The question is do u replace Girgs or Larsson,
who will NOT be expensive...
for someone who would be a complete UNKNOWN (in that role) for a modestly cheaper amount

U really think there’s a difference between the LOG line making 9mil or 10mil?
I don’t
However,
I do think it’s a big risk to try & replace Girgs or Larsson with Lazar or Asplund so u can save 1mil

What they do is much too important to risk that

I see a lot of ppl that are “ok” letting Girgs &/or Larsson walk

Don’t think they realize what a good job those 2 have done together in a VERY tough role

I’m not gonna let one walk to save 1mil? bc i “think” someone can perform as well as them getting all that defensive responsibility
Bad idea imo
- jdfitz77

One of those people is me, and I still stand by it. It's quite easy to figure out.

Skinner is already overpaid by $1.0 - $1.5m , coupled with Okposso overpaid now by +/-$4.0m; and Mojo by say another $1.0m they simply should not overpay 2 more 4th liners.
Lazar is perfect there for 4C, better on the dot, faster, more physical, more truculence, more offensive upside.

Bad, very bad decision to do so.

I guess at one point the regulars pulled money together and paid the rears.

A bar owner I know was asked to invest in it and that is the issue
- dadeadhead

Wow
That’s too bad

On the bolded above, wouldn't a 3 year deal for each of Girgensons and Larsson mean that entire line would be off the books at the same time, in 3 years, when Okposo's deal is done?
- kingcong39

Well then let’s say we keep them even longer
They still will cost about 50% less than now when u replace Okposo with a 1mil guy

Why is it ok to replace Okposo,
and not Larsson & Girgs?

Bc they’ve been the backbone of that checking unit for over 2 seasons now and have done it with various players slotted in with them

how many playoff games have we won with larsson and girgens?
- homiedclown

How many have we won with Jack?

You’re making the same bad argument that ppl made when trying to justify trading ROR

It doesn’t correlate

One of those people is me, and I still stand by it. It's quite easy to figure out.

Skinner is already overpaid by $1.0 - $1.5m , coupled with Okposso overpaid now by +/-$4.0m; and Mojo by say another $1.0m they simply should not overpay 2 more 4th liners.
Lazar is perfect there for 4C, better on the dot, faster, more physical, more truculence, more offensive upside.

Bad, very bad decision to do so.
- IonSabres

And how’s he performed with 80% defensive zone starts against other teams’ top offensive talent?

I’ll answer for you...
You don’t know
Bc Larsson & Girgs have been doing such a good job in that role
And expecting Lazar to do as good a job is purely a guess

How many have we won with Jack?

You’re making the same bad argument that ppl made when trying to justify trading ROR

It doesn’t correlate
- jdfitz77

I agree with trading ROR, as time goes on though we can see that return was not adequate though.

However thanks to losing that trade we ended up sucking enough to get Cozens and another top 10 pick. So I’m more then ok with the outcome.

The Sabres long term success has nothing to do with St. Louis’ success

And how’s he performed with 80% defensive zone starts against other teams’ top offensive talent?

I’ll answer for you...
You don’t know
Bc Larsson & Girgs have been doing such a good job in that role
And expecting Lazar to do as good a job is purely a guess
- jdfitz77

Putting Larson in a checking line center role was a good guess.
Putting Girgs in a checking line winger role was a good guess.
Putting Okposo in a checking line winger role was a good guess.
They worked out. What makes you think Lazar won't? Serious question. I've seen enough of Lazar to believe he can do an adequate Girgs impression at less than half the cost. He may even be better. Won't know til you try though.

A defensive line that plays against other teams’ top lines & flips the ice is EXTREMELY VALUABLE

A hell of a lot more valuable than a 3rd scoring line (which we could still have with them)

Determining Larsson & Girgs value should not be based off the sh!tty contract GMTM signed Okposo to
He’s not gonna be here forever

Don’t let one mistake convince u to make further

To have 3 scoring lines, you NEED a 4th line that can handle tough defensive responsibility
Like Pitt with Cullen when their last couple Cups
Like Boston’s 4th line when they win the Cup
- jdfitz77

1)I don't base anything I do off Tim Murray's tenure

2) Am of the opinion that, in a high tempo set up, a 3rd scoring line is more important

Putting Larson in a checking line center role was a good guess.
Putting Girgs in a checking line winger role was a good guess.
Putting Okposo in a checking line winger role was a good guess.
They worked out. What makes you think Lazar won't? Serious question. I've seen enough of Lazar to believe he can do an adequate Girgs impression at less than half the cost. He may even be better. Won't know til you try though.
- Sir Tindoom

Lazar’s possession numbers are brutal which means any offence driven by the line isn’t a result of him.

Nor has he proven he can defend at a Selkie Level like Larsson can.

Lazar is an AHL’er but he’s the new toy we haven’t grown to hate yet and throws a few hits every so often so he’s likeable.

Well then let’s say we keep them even longer
They still will cost about 50% less than now when u replace Okposo with a 1mil guy

Why is it ok to replace Okposo,
and not Larsson & Girgs?

Bc they’ve been the backbone of that checking unit for over 2 seasons now and have done it with various players slotted in with them
- jdfitz77

Why would you sign either of Girgensons or Larsson to deals longer than 3 years considering the roles they play and the fact that they will be 27 and 28 respectively next season and before next season?

Signing either to a 4 or 5 year deal does not sound like a good idea.

Lazar’s possession numbers are brutal which means any offence driven by the line isn’t a result of him.

Nor has he proven he can defend at a Selkie Level like Larsson can.

Lazar is an AHL’er but he’s the new toy we haven’t grown to hate yet and throws a few hits every so often so he’s likeable.
- Pegullaville

While I like Lazar, he's realistically nothing more than a 12th or 13th cheap forward.

Lazar’s possession numbers are brutal which means any offence driven by the line isn’t a result of him.

Nor has he proven he can defend at a Selkie Level like Larsson can.

Lazar is an AHL’er but he’s the new toy we haven’t grown to hate yet and throws a few hits every so often so he’s likeable.
- Pegullaville

I'd keep Larson. Lazar is replacing Girgs. I don't get the Girgensons love. He's OK. But replaceable. I don't have numbers. If Asplund will be better, no problem here.

While I like Lazar, he's realistically nothing more than a 12th or 13th cheap forward.
- kingcong39

Works with me.

While I like Lazar, he's realistically nothing more than a 12th or 13th cheap forward.
- kingcong39

Correct. So is Girgensons.

I'd keep Larson. Lazar is replacing Girgs. I don't get the Girgensons love. He's OK. But replaceable. I don't have numbers. If Asplund will be better, no problem here.
- Sir Tindoom

I agree with you. I never said anything about keeping Girgensons. I just said personally I would like Larsson retained. If Larsson doesn’t want to be here or the cap hit doesn’t make sense then so be it.

I agree with trading ROR, as time goes on though we can see that return was not adequate though.

However thanks to losing that trade we ended up sucking enough to get Cozens and another top 10 pick. So I’m more then ok with the outcome.

The Sabres long term success has nothing to do with St. Louis’ success
- Pegullaville

You’ve totally missed the point

It was that just bc we haven’t won with Larsson & Girgs doesn’t mean they can’t be productive pieces to a winning team

Putting Larson in a checking line center role was a good guess.
Putting Girgs in a checking line winger role was a good guess.
Putting Okposo in a checking line winger role was a good guess.
They worked out. What makes you think Lazar won't? Serious question. I've seen enough of Lazar to believe he can do an adequate Girgs impression at less than half the cost. He may even be better. Won't know til you try though.
- Sir Tindoom

Don’t need to try it when u already have the sure thing
The extra $$ Girgs will cost over Lazar will not hurt Botts in building this team

But if Lazar doesn’t work out in that role,
that will hurt us

U think it’s ok to take the chance for a 1mil savings?
I don’t. I think that’s a dumb risk to take

1)I don't base anything I do off Tim Murray's tenure

2) Am of the opinion that, in a high tempo set up, a 3rd scoring line is more important
- Michael Ghofrani

Couldn’t disagree more on #2