It may be unpopular, but I think Holl can handle the 3/4 role. Maybe he's out of his depth against elite teams, but against most 2nd line competition Holl has been okay. Being thrust into top line competition is certainly showing that's not a level he's going to compete at successfully.
- Monkeypunk

Oh I think he could handle second pairing minutes too just fine. But the leafs, when healthy, have Rielly, Muzzin, Ceci, and Barrie ahead of him so they don’t need him to. The guy is stepping up into a role he hasn’t been expected to do and he’s doing pretty damn good considering that.

yup.

I hope for their sake they figure out what got them pumped for tonights game... do the same for the next one.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Show them video of both games and let them see for themselves what they did different.

Result
- Zezel

Contenders!

Contenders!
- Byfuglien Ate Me

You can bet Tampa's cheering for Florida...

A bottom pairing guy at league minimum plays 25mins due to a blue line decimated by injuries (3 of top 4 out if muzzin is long term) and the leafs still get the win.

Complaining about that is like a kid who’s crying about not being given a 3rd chocolate bar. Completely unfounded.
- Dozzer

as silly as this may sound... the team - meaning the players and the management should be very great full that they have Holl... with the struggles of Ceci and the injuries, imagine where they be without him. Not pretty, he's seems like a pretty honest hockey player, low maintenance.

Holl is more than capable of being a bottom pairing guy on a contender
- Dozzer

based on what?

Hit on the hand just before the end of the 2nd.
- Leafsmart

Jesus. Whole bunch of bad luck this year.

as silly as this may sound... the team - meaning the players and the management should be very great full that they have Holl... with the struggles of Ceci and the injuries, imagine where they be without him. Not pretty, he's seems like a pretty honest hockey player, low maintenance.
- BorjeFan4Ever

No question, and he's done well for a guy who barely played last year.

So true.

It’s sucks for him that he likes the Leafs. Like how much of a waste of (frank)ing time that it is for him.

The leafs will win a cup and he will be on here arguing with the Nucks and Habs fans on why the Leafs didn’t deserve the cup and that is was all Andersen.

While we will all be celebrating.
- Santo_44

Oh?

All evidence points to him being a Bruins deep-throater.

as silly as this may sound... the team - meaning the players and the management should be very great full that they have Holl... with the struggles of Ceci and the injuries, imagine where they be without him. Not pretty, he's seems like a pretty honest hockey player, low maintenance.
- BorjeFan4Ever

holl is definitely better than ceci another guy that shouldn't be on the leafs defense.

as silly as this may sound... the team - meaning the players and the management should be very great full that they have Holl... with the struggles of Ceci and the injuries, imagine where they be without him. Not pretty, he's seems like a pretty honest hockey player, low maintenance.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Exactly... exactly what you’d hope to get from a guy expected to play bottom pairing minutes at the league minimum salary. The fact that he even can step up and play those minutes when needed should be considered a bonus.

based on what?
- ghetto puck

Vince Dunn and Robert Bortuzzo?

It may be unpopular, but I think Holl can handle the 3/4 role. Maybe he's out of his depth against elite teams, but against most 2nd line competition Holl has been okay. Being thrust into top line competition is certainly showing that's not a level he's going to compete at successfully.
- Monkeypunk

A good bottom pairing D should be able to handle top-4 minutes occasionally (injuries / road match-ups) but he's a bottom pairing guy overall.

based on what?
- ghetto puck

At this point, based on the fact that you think otherwise.


Or in another way of looking at it - Alec Martinez is someone people think we could have or maybe even should have targeted at the TDL. He has faced similar competition with better defensive partners than Holl has, and has overall worse numbers.

Like it or not, Holl has been effective. He is not a top pairing guy, but he is a 4-6 guy.

Vince Dunn and Robert Bortuzzo?
- Dozzer

holl will have to win a cup playing regular minutes to prove your statement correct. since he hasn't, he is not good enough to play defense on a serious cup contending team.

At this point, based on the fact that you think otherwise.


Or in another way of looking at it - Alec Martinez is someone people think we could have or maybe even should have targeted at the TDL. He has faced similar competition with better defensive partners than Holl has, and has overall worse numbers.

Like it or not, Holl has been effective. He is not a top pairing guy, but he is a 4-6 guy.
- Monkeypunk

holl will have to win a cup playing regular minutes to prove your statement correct. since he hasn't, he is not good enough to play defense on a serious cup contending team.
- ghetto puck

What in hell are you even talking about? Do you honestly think the problem is the guy meant to play the fifth D? That’s one of the holes that have been effectively filled. The problem with this D is the pathetic seasons from Ceci and Barrie.... not Holl

holl will have to win a cup playing regular minutes to prove your statement correct. since he hasn't, he is not good enough to play defense on a serious cup contending team.
- ghetto puck

It's not that hard. I played regular D minutes on a contending road hockey team all the time.

At this point, based on the fact that you think otherwise.


Or in another way of looking at it - Alec Martinez is someone people think we could have or maybe even should have targeted at the TDL. He has faced similar competition with better defensive partners than Holl has, and has overall worse numbers.

Like it or not, Holl has been effective. He is not a top pairing guy, but he is a 4-6 guy.
- Monkeypunk

there's a reason why he hasn't played in the nhl until he was 27-28 years old. are we done now or does everyone still want to continue to try and change my opinion to match theirs?

holl will have to win a cup playing regular minutes to prove your statement correct. since he hasn't, he is not good enough to play defense on a serious cup contending team.
- ghetto puck

Is this how you evaluate all players, or just the ones you don't like?

They aren't worthy of playing regular minutes on a cup contender until they have won a cup while playing regular minutes? Talk about putting the cart before the horse.

holl will have to win a cup playing regular minutes to prove your statement correct. since he hasn't, he is not good enough to play defense on a serious cup contending team.
- ghetto puck

I propose we set up an experiment with two hockey teams. One team will win the stanley cup, the other team won't, and then we observe to see which players are cup winners.

What in hell are you even talking about? Do you honestly think the problem is the guy meant to play the fifth D? That’s one of the holes that have been effectively filled. The problem with this D is the pathetic seasons from Ceci and Barrie.... not Holl
- Dozzer

imo holl is a 7th defenseman.

It's not that hard. I played regular D minutes on a contending road hockey team all the time.
- Zezel

cool, did you win anything? what are the cheques like?

there's a reason why he hasn't played in the nhl until he was 27-28 years old. are we done now or does everyone still want to continue to try and change my opinion to match theirs?
- ghetto puck

He's a decent third pairing guy that can play higher in the lineup when necessity calls. No one is arguing anything more than this. But carry on with your opinion I guess. It's a ridiculous opinion, but have at it.

Is this how you evaluate all players, or just the ones you don't like?

They aren't worthy of playing regular minutes on a cup contender until they have won a cup while playing regular minutes? Talk about putting the cart before the horse.
- Thecakeisalie

when has justin holl played regular minutes on a serious cup contender then?