The result of being consistently matched against opponents best players has been six season of pretty subpar teams
- Michael Ghofrani

Yeah, this is a valid conclusion.

Rasmus Ristolainen is the reason the Sabres have been bad for six years.

Dumb, dumb, dumb

he sees more offensive zone starts and that absolutely accounts for the increase in CF but the percentage difference in usage doesn't explain the gap in attempts against.

There's Quality of teammate issue too. Top pair sees plenty of time with the top line. Lots of nights where Dahlin pair is out there with Lazar. Not a knock on lazar who's fine, but he's not quite Eichel.
- Michael Ghofrani

But not playing against McKinnon is a big relief too.

From what I noticed the Sabres D is not getting the support from their forwards down low, mainly by the center position and that does include Jack too at times. He is no Selke winner. It is also in the PP the forward responsible for the center of the ice when the puck gets set up in front is often not pulling their weight.

Yeah, this is a valid conclusion.

Rasmus Ristolainen is the reason the Sabres have been bad for six years.

Dumb, dumb, dumb
- Der Kaiser

I don't place it squarely on him, but him being used like a #1 is a big factor. You are free to draw your own conclusions of course.

Yeah, this is a valid conclusion.

Rasmus Ristolainen is the reason the Sabres have been bad for six years.

Dumb, dumb, dumb
- Der Kaiser

He may not be the reason theyve been bad but hes certainly one of the reasons they aren't good

That’s a damn fair offer. Too bad its time is gone.

I dump on Casey from time to time but really I rather keep him. I really don’t want to give up on him now. He could be good. Let’s see how he shows up to training camp.
- PrinceChill

Eh, I'd be fine with an "unfair" offer in order to land a real 2C. Mitts, Risto and Johnson wins us Trochek no questions asked imo. Maybe even Mitts, Johnson and Larry.

Botterill hasn't traded a prospect of his own yet (I believe). Could be similar to Darcy overvaluing his own

But not playing against McKinnon is a big relief too.

From what I noticed the Sabres D is not getting the support from their forwards down low, mainly by the center position and that does include Jack too at times. He is no Selke winner. It is also in the PP the forward responsible for the center of the ice when the puck gets set up in front is often not pulling their weight.
- GilPerreault11

I hope to see a day where our big minute defenseman isn't getting consistently obliterated by the other team's top line so we don't have to keep justifying it

Yeah, this is a valid conclusion.

Rasmus Ristolainen is the reason the Sabres have been bad for six years.

Dumb, dumb, dumb
- Der Kaiser

I agree

Risto, 8 shot blocks and I think hits. I'm not sure how analytics will read that. If the shots got through, maybe goals, maybe not? Maybe the forwards up front shouldn't have allowed entry so easy to set up for shots? Maybe guys on the wings should have covered the point? Analytics have holes too.

The result of being consistently matched against opponents best players has been six season of pretty subpar teams
- Michael Ghofrani

dont bring your facts here!

Yeah, this is a valid conclusion.

Rasmus Ristolainen is the reason the Sabres have been bad for six years.

Dumb, dumb, dumb
- Der Kaiser

he clearly isnt the answer either.

I don't place it squarely on him, but him being used like a #1 is a big factor. You are free to draw your own conclusions of course.
- Michael Ghofrani

My conclusion would look at entire rosters, and who among this rosters were best qualified for which roles. Remember Carlo coliacovo, and Cody Franson, and Chad (frank)ing Ruhwedel? Those guys should have been our top pair?

I hope to see a day where our big minute defenseman isn't getting consistently obliterated by the other team's top line so we don't have to keep justifying it
- robz228

One even strenth goal with a shakey goalie and an 800 something save percentage. I think he is doing ok for a 2 or 3 D. It is the hate Risto crowd who has issues.

I agree

Risto, 8 shot blocks and I think hits. I'm not sure how analytics will read that. If the shots got through, maybe goals, maybe not? Maybe the forwards up front shouldn't have allowed entry so easy to set up for shots? Maybe guys on the wings should have covered the point? Analytics have holes too.
- GilPerreault11

The truth is they read that as bad, because it just means time spent without the puck. Often times the best defensive plays are the ones that aren't recorded. Good stick work, in the lanes quick transition etc.

Every single one of those forwards has better on ice results playing away from Risto, that's the most telling stat of them all.

Evidence would suggest he can't get the puck out against anyone. Dahlin gets sheltered, no doubt, but both statements can be true.
- Michael Ghofrani

Evidence would suggest he can't get the puck out against anyone. Dahlin gets sheltered, no doubt, but both statements can be true.
- Michael Ghofrani

So if Risto spends all this time on ice with Jack,
then why is it Risto’s fault he can’t get the puck out of the zone?

Or is it that Risto is staring in the def zone against MacKinnon and Jack is not?

Who are the other 4 guys in the ice with him?


This cherry picking BS needs to stop
TELL THE WHOLE STORY

Dahlin started less in the defensive zone, against lesser competition...
and you’re drawing comparisons based on shot attempts
Do u really not see how that’s clearly biased against Risto

And btw...
what are the quality of those shot attempts?
Were they from the outside?
Were they scoring chances?


Can’t you see how big a part of the picture you’re leaving out, when u make a statement like this:

“Ristolainen played 2 mins less than dahlin at 5v5 and was on the ice for nearly double the shot attempts against”

Never mind that he played much harder minutes against much tougher opponents
Good grief

My conclusion would look at entire rosters, and who among this rosters were best qualified for which roles. Remember Carlo coliacovo, and Cody Franson, and Chad (frank)ing Ruhwedel? Those guys should have been our top pair?
- Der Kaiser

Absolutely not, but I would also put Ristolainen on that list. They all produced poor results.

I think Pegulaville said it best, he's probably best suited for less minutes, easier role and top PP.

The thing is, you can't pay 5.4 mil for that. That's why he should be the odd man out.

he clearly isnt the answer either.
- TheHank

Only if the question is “what individual will shoulder the blame for a collective poop show involving 15 people, 6 or 7 of whom were utterly unqualified as NHLers.”

Jerry (frank)ing Damigo
Zac god damn Dalpe

I'd absolutely move him in a package for a guy like Trochek. At this point I doubt he'll ever be a 60 point center. I dont think he's a 20 goal scorer, so 15+35 is his ceiling imo. And I'm not at all sure he gets there
- jcragcrumple

Gotcha
We won’t be able to come to an agreement on what he should be traded for then
Your ceiling for him is much, much lower than mine

Absolutely not, but I would also put Ristolainen on that list. They all produced poor results.

I think Pegulaville said it best, he's probably best suited for less minutes, easier role and top PP.

The thing is, you can't pay 5.4 mil for that. That's why he should be the odd man out.
- Michael Ghofrani

Who takes his place and what does that guy get paid

So if Risto spends all this time on ice with Jack,
then why is it Risto’s fault he can’t get the puck out of the zone?

Or is it that Risto is staring in the def zone against MacKinnon and Jack is not?

Who are the other 4 guys in the ice with him?


This cherry picking BS needs to stop
TELL THE WHOLE STORY

Dahlin started less in the defensive zone, against lesser competition...
and you’re drawing comparisons based on shot attempts
Do u really not see how that’s clearly biased against Risto

And btw...
what are the quality of those shot attempts?
Were they from the outside?
Were they scoring chances?


Can’t you see how big a part of the picture you’re leaving out, when u make a statement like this:

“Ristolainen played 2 mins less than dahlin at 5v5 and was on the ice for nearly double the shot attempts against”

Never mind that he played much harder minutes against much tougher opponents
Good grief
- jdfitz77

As someone else pointed, Risto got shelled in all of his matchups. I don't discount facing Mackinnon as being an obstacle, but if it was the only instance he played poorly, his overall numbers wouldn't be that bad?

to answer your shot quality question, he had the highest expected goals against of any sabre.

My conclusion would look at entire rosters, and who among this rosters were best qualified for which roles. Remember Carlo coliacovo, and Cody Franson, and Chad (frank)ing Ruhwedel? Those guys should have been our top pair?
- Der Kaiser

Risto has definitely been a victim of circumstance. Kruger really isn’t doing himself or Montour any favours playing them with each other right now either. However, we do have a large enough sample size that shows that the ice gets tilted when Risto is on the ice. We are one of the better defensive teams in hockey this year and this is Risto’s worse analytic season, that is pretty telling.

If Risto was used as a #4 and given mostly o-zone starts he would be perform better analytically, we have Montour, Joker, and Miller capable of doing that as well.

Why pay $5.4M for someone who should realistically be getting 2nd pair maybe even 3rd pair minutes ?

Risto’s best attribute is the PP, and Dahlin will be running that for as long as he wears the Sabres sweater.

Eh, I'd be fine with an "unfair" offer in order to land a real 2C. Mitts, Risto and Johnson wins us Trochek no questions asked imo. Maybe even Mitts, Johnson and Larry.

Botterill hasn't traded a prospect of his own yet (I believe). Could be similar to Darcy overvaluing his own
- jcragcrumple

You put me in somewhat unfamiliar territory defending Botts but, his prospects haven’t had too long to develop. If he ends up being awesome at drafting, we’re gonna want to keep them.
If he’s not, then yeah, he’s Darcy.

Who takes his place and what does that guy get paid
- Der Kaiser

Ideally I'd like to see them trade for someone defensively responsible at the very least, but given the pressing need at forward I suspect they won't go that route unless it's dirt cheap.

For what it's worth, last 20 games Jokiharju has actually seen the toughest minutes and his numbers are okay-ish, which is light years ahead of Ristolainen.

sorry meant 20 games

The truth is they read that as bad, because it just means time spent without the puck. Often times the best defensive plays are the ones that aren't recorded. Good stick work, in the lanes quick transition etc.

Every single one of those forwards has better on ice results playing away from Risto, that's the most telling stat of them all.
- Michael Ghofrani

You and a few others should write your letters to Jack Krueger and let him know your stats and thoughts and maybe he will move him off the top D line, PK and all be well again?

Put the juniors against the big boys and all will be well. I'm sure Joker, Miller, Dahlin will be rock solid against the stars of the league.

You and a few others should write your letters to Jack Krueger and let him know your stats and thoughts and maybe he will move him off the top D line, PK and all be well again?

Put the juniors against the big boys and all will be well. I'm sure Joker, Miller, Dahlin will be rock solid against the stars of the league.
- GilPerreault11

I can't tell if you meant ralph or if it's a well placed joke about jack running the team.

So if Risto spends all this time on ice with Jack,
then why is it Risto’s fault he can’t get the puck out of the zone?

Or is it that Risto is staring in the def zone against MacKinnon and Jack is not?

Who are the other 4 guys in the ice with him?


This cherry picking BS needs to stop
TELL THE WHOLE STORY

Dahlin started less in the defensive zone, against lesser competition...
and you’re drawing comparisons based on shot attempts
Do u really not see how that’s clearly biased against Risto

And btw...
what are the quality of those shot attempts?
Were they from the outside?
Were they scoring chances?


Can’t you see how big a part of the picture you’re leaving out, when u make a statement like this:

“Ristolainen played 2 mins less than dahlin at 5v5 and was on the ice for nearly double the shot attempts against”

Never mind that he played much harder minutes against much tougher opponents
Good grief
- jdfitz77

xGF is basically this stuff, if you weren’t aware

Risto plays a nice physical game and has all the intangibles you want in a hockey player. I get why people like him for that. I just don’t get how you can watch him fail to make a play with the puck that gets the team out of their zone over and over and not realize there’s something seriously wrong with his game.

You and a few others should write your letters to Jack Krueger and let him know your stats and thoughts and maybe he will move him off the top D line, PK and all be well again?

Put the juniors against the big boys and all will be well. I'm sure Joker, Miller, Dahlin will be rock solid against the stars of the league.
- GilPerreault11

Can’t be any worse then the numbers Risto are putting up against them.

I’d bet my house Joker and his 100 games would already do better in that role.