Ok, usually I knee jerk to against Stan, but I think I did a bit of a knee jerk for him on these trades.

For starters, I am absolutely glad he got “something” for Gus and Lehner. Honestly, I think a 3rd was about all Gus was worth, he’s a very flawed D-man heading to F/A. So I really have no issues with this move. The Lehner move is not quite as positive even though I give Stan credit for not holding onto him and losing him for nothing.

One of the flaws I think Stan has his inability to maximize return. So going back to TDL moves he made to get players. He traded a first and a top prospect for both Vermette and Ladd. The prospects didn’t turn into anything, but at the time it was a great return for pending free agents. Stan did not get a first nor did he get a top prospect for a similar player this year. This is my biggest concern with Stan. It’s just like the Timo deal that was the same year Montreal acquired Jeff Petry for one 2nd round pick while Stan was dealing a pair of 2s for Kimo.

So that’s my issue with Stan, he seems to sell low while buying high. Juxtaposing similar deals Stan made to “buy in” with this Vegas trade to “buy in” and essentially Stan got 2 lottery tickets and a mediocre backup goalie. This is a far cry from a first and a top prospect he willingly (and I supported and still support) moved in a similar deal (outside of position). I don’t know if he’s just a lousy negotiator who gets pushed around in deals or “that’s all the market would bare”, but one way to “gauge market value” other than actually selling/trading a piece on the market is to use comps and that’s what I’ve done with the outstanding returns “sellers” got at this deadline as well as Stan’s own deals previously when he was buying. To that end, Bowman failed in my view.

Basically, my thoughts on Stan is he scored a D+/C- with these deals. If they can develop Subban then maybe it moves up and maybe Subban has untapped talent to exploit. If that’s Stan’s thinking and it works out I’ll revise this position. My worry is Stan appears to be a very poor negotiator. His trades seem lopsided (gives up a lot, doesn’t often get a lot), and even his dealings with players sees him handing out large money, large term and NTCs.

I think Stan IS getting a handle on the Cap, his moves seem to suggest he understands that part of it, but his trades are mostly questionable unless he does these under the radar type moves (like getting Ciguala for Pyon). So I give Stan average marks on Cap management, below average on trades/negotiations, but I do give him high marks for finding talent. Getting Panarin, Kahun, Kubilik, excellent drafting of late, it appears Boqvist and Dach are keepers and there are some other exciting young players on the rise in the system. Stan has done a fantastic job restocking, finding those diamonds, and is excellent in “lower tier” deals, but unless he figures out how to better negotiate the big deals we may struggle to really get back to elite status.
- kwolf68

He got two high #1 prospects for a flawed Schmaltz. I would say Stan won that trade the second the Yotes paid him $5.85 long term.

Yep - as expected a very indirect answer. Utterly surprised that he said he's happy with the job Colliton is doing. This roster is not a bottom 15 roster yet they're bottom in the league in two very important areas.

Why are they dead last on the PP and one of the worst teams getting the puck out of their own zone?

I think we've proven that the players are buying into the system and the compete level is their for 85%+ of the players on a nightly basis.

This has to due with the coaching/schematics. Prove me wrong.
- catrisc

Did you really expect Stan (or any GM) to say "Gee, I am really disappointed with our coaching". #1 he is a Stan hire. #2 you wait until you are ready to fire him and then come out and say "We gave him a chance, but the team was just not progressing the way we wanted to based on the talent on the roster."

Stan never fails to disappoint. Where are the Stan apologists now? The ones who gave him credit for helping *cough* maintaining their pseudo dynasty? Yeah, it's tough to put gas and oil in a Maserati that was handed to you on a silver platter. He has however, done quite well at slamming the door shut on any hope of making any more Cup runs the last few years. Just watch what Pittsburgh and Boston have done to rebuild on the fly to see competent GMs.

Hopefully Rocky has had enough and will not make another incestuous front office hire, and get some outsider eyes on this dumpster fire. Stan can go watch games with daddy down in Tampa. Maybe Stan can save a seat for the fax machine as well.
- howiehandles

I by no means think Stan did a poor job at the deadline. Pretty average I would say. That being said, I think the frustrating part is the lack of cohesion between the front office-> Fans/core. It seems like they're throwing poop at the wall and hoping for it to stick. If you're trying to be competitive while you're rebuilding then you need a better coach. Collition is clearly more focused on developing his players than winning right now....

Just to name a few....

1. The front office told him to change his breakout approach in the first month of the season
2. He waited for the PP to be dead last in the league before making a structural change
3. Their defensive structure in their own end looks like an AHL team. Throw it around the boards where a teammate caches on their forehand going back to the net. They get pinned in their zone, get tired and then give up a goal. It is sad to watch.

Stan never fails to disappoint. Where are the Stan apologists now? The ones who gave him credit for helping *cough* maintaining their pseudo dynasty? Yeah, it's tough to put gas and oil in a Maserati that was handed to you on a silver platter. He has however, done quite well at slamming the door shut on any hope of making any more Cup runs the last few years. Just watch what Pittsburgh and Boston have done to rebuild on the fly to see competent GMs.

Hopefully Rocky has had enough and will not make another incestuous front office hire, and get some outsider eyes on this dumpster fire. Stan can go watch games with daddy down in Tampa. Maybe Stan can save a seat for the fax machine as well.
- howiehandles

Do you think Stan has operated in the last year like a GM desperate to save his job?

The goof at Prohockeytalk predicted Gus for a 1st! Big surprise he thought Stan did a bad job...
- mohel

Gus is a #7 on any team Chicago put on the ice from 2008-15. In other words he's a #7 on a cup team and the good teams know it.

I can tell you the Canes weren't interested in giving up assets for a rental goalie who turned them down last summer and is more likely than not to do the same this one.
- BINGO!

Too bad because we have seen how important good goaltending can be during a long playoff run and heaven forbid if injury occurs to your starter. They may regret that decision.

Stan believes he just acquired his starting goalie of the future... Malcolm Subban and his .890 SV%.
- Tyler Cameron

I can’t for the life of me understand why he took Subban as a piece of the trade. Living on his family name alone. You have 4 solid goalie prospects waiting in the wings. Wtf were you thinking?!

Yep - as expected a very indirect answer. Utterly surprised that he said he's happy with the job Colliton is doing. This roster is not a bottom 15 roster yet they're bottom in the league in two very important areas.

Why are they dead last on the PP and one of the worst teams getting the puck out of their own zone?

I think we've proven that the players are buying into the system and the compete level is their for 85%+ of the players on a nightly basis.

This has to due with the coaching/schematics. Prove me wrong.
- catrisc

No real surprise here. JC was Stan's hand picked candidate for the job, so he's not going to throw him under the bus. They will sink or swim together.

My take on his radio interview comments (podcast link on page 3) is more of the same "soft" rebuild. He doesn't have much choice considering he has to build around an aging core eating up a good chunk of the cap and unlikely to waive their NMC's.

His hands are also tied with the injury situations to Seabrook, deHaan and Shaw. The last two are unlikely trade candidates, and if they come back healthy next year are one hit away from another IR stint. If still on LTIR at the start of next season he'll have to maneuver around the LTIR cap hit and can't use their cap space to improve the team over the summer..

So you'll have more tinkering around the edges with a bunch of 2nd/3rd tier players and young players on ELC's. Maybe you'll see a Saad or Maatta moved over the summer to free up some cap space and fill a hole, but then you'll have to fill that hole created by moving them.

Goalies? I think Crow will be signed as the #1 and possibly a cheap veteran as the backup as in insurance policy if Corey is hurt.

End result for the 20/21 season? Another bubble team which like this year and last will have an up and down season, providing optimism to us fans during hot streaks and pessimism during the down periods.

I can’t for the life of me understand why he took Subban as a piece of the trade. Living on his family name alone. You have 4 solid goalie prospects waiting in the wings. Wtf were you thinking?!
- Assman22

That VGK needed to move him to be able to get Lehner for cap reasons, and that he is RFA after this season - if he doesn't show something, Stan can always just not qualify him.

I can’t for the life of me understand why he took Subban as a piece of the trade. Living on his family name alone. You have 4 solid goalie prospects waiting in the wings. Wtf were you thinking?!
- Assman22

Maybe Vegas needed the cap space.

Edit - what Sage said....

I can’t for the life of me understand why he took Subban as a piece of the trade. Living on his family name alone. You have 4 solid goalie prospects waiting in the wings. Wtf were you thinking?!
- Assman22

It's essentially a free roll. They know what they have with the other prospects. If they don't like what they have with Subban, then they let him walk this summer, and the others can battle it out in camp. As other posters have already suggested on here, maybe his game goes up a notch under Jimmy Waite.

I guess its not the worst value I have seen. maybe 65% to the other team 35% us in value. But in comparison Dale wiese and Timmo got more value individually then we got for both guys. basically the same value as Runblad and Jurco cost us at the trade deadline.

The bigger issue is how is this team going to be better next year? Teows Kane Keith and goaltending will all probably be worse.

Matta, SAAD, Murphy Keokee kubalik carpenter will be the same. (cumulatively as a group)

strome and Cat are probably 1/2 way between this year and last so a small bump up. Strome is to slow to be a real difference maker and CAT is not good at any other aspect other then shooting so he is not really a difference maker either.

Dach and boquist nylander could get better

Mitchell in reality is not going to better in year one then GUS. and unless we luck out in the draft pick 6-8 is not really a difference maker in year 1-2.

Shaw and Dehaan could both have more impact next year but more then likely those are LTIR cap hits for 2 more seasons.

with all of the above it looks like a net even. which means we are the 27tg-20th best team on paper again. tell me were I went wrong?

right now we are the 24th best team with no cap space. everything goes 5% better we are 18-20 everything goes 5% worse we are 26-28.

we clearly have no plan RED WINGS and LA OTT are bad but they have a plan on how to get better. in 2 years those teams will probably be better then us.

I can’t for the life of me understand why he took Subban as a piece of the trade. Living on his family name alone. You have 4 solid goalie prospects waiting in the wings. Wtf were you thinking?!
- Assman22

that was the price for making the lehner trade work...vegas had to do something with him...probably out of waiver options..

stans' number # 1 goalie next year...you heard it hear first..HOLTBY..

Here's the link to the Bowman interview.

https://670thescore.radio...er-erik-gustafsson-trades
- boilermaker100

I was listening to this on my way in to work today. Thought it was very interesting that he wouldn't comment on his future with the team and the report that he signed a contract extension basically saying, "I'm gonna be the GM til they tell me that I'm not." Wonder if this means his future isn't so secure after seeing the team fall on their face again...

My goaltender wish list.

1. CC resigned for a couple of years @ $3 M (ish)

2. Go get Spencer Knight from FLA. with Bob sign for large dollars and long term, with an untradeable contract, Spencer has no path to NHL #1 with FLA

3. If #2 proves unworkable this summer, sign FA Jacob Markstrom from VAN. The Canucks have younger goalies on the way, and Markstrom is likely cheaper than either Holtby or Lehner.

20-21 CC backed by Subban or one of the Ice Hogs
21-22 CC backed by Knight
22-23 Knight backed by CC on an additional 1 year deal

Or

20-21 CC & Markstrom 1a & 1b
21-22 Markstrom backed by CC
22-23 Markstrom backed by ??

T H I S !!!!!!!!!


We let the sports writers stir the speculation, conjuring bold moves and trades of Bowen Byram because they are fan boys in their city's and are writing with itchy trigger fingers...
- wiz1901

a huge difference between the media hyped propaganda and NHL reality...

why did these deals take until the last minute..because the market was soft for both these guys and stan had to give to make it happen...thats not entirely on him..

Vegas is now within 200k of the cap; had to get rid of Subban to make Lehner fit.

The time has come for Rocky Wirtz to step in at the end of the season and launch McDonut and Bowman. It truly apparent McDonut and company can not move this team forward. I feel like this team is going to be a bottom feeder for the next decade.

The time has come for Rocky Wirtz to step in at the end of the season and launch McDonut and Bowman. It truly apparent McDonut and company can not move this team forward. I feel like this team is going to be a bottom feeder for the next decade.
- mmurray892

Agreed - feels like were stuck and have not improved the last 3 years.

Vegas is now within 200k of the cap; had to get rid of Subban to make Lehner fit.
- mohel

This is another reason why the market is soft, there are more teams that are right at or close to the cap then ever before. And they cannot dump the bad contracts to Arizona anymore. The only team that truly has room to offload contracts is Ottawa, but they are not going to make you pay in draft choices to do so.

Do you think Stan has operated in the last year like a GM desperate to save his job?
- mohel

Well Mo, you'd have to admit, Stan has continued to operate like the smug, arrogant chip-eating GM who is not worried about his job security in the least.

I cannot wait for this board to IMPLODE when McDonut announces that "Stan has led this team to 3 CUPS, the team of the decade, and as a reward for our faith in him, we've re-signed him to a new 7 year contract. The stability it brings this org-an-I-zation is critical to our ongoing success as one of the best NHL clubs and destination markets for players."

Ready to throw up?

I can’t for the life of me understand why he took Subban as a piece of the trade. Living on his family name alone. You have 4 solid goalie prospects waiting in the wings. Wtf were you thinking?!
- Assman22

Goalie to be exposed for the expansion draft in 2021?

2 oofa's, and Stan got the best return he could. He tried to pry a 1st rounder from Carolina, they said NO. Now, who is gonna watch some upcoming Calgary games with Gus trying to play defense ? LOLOL...It will be a riot to see his jaw drop when he leaves their goalie hung out to dry. ...That shouldn't take long. People, we really do not know what kind of team that we have, because there is a bumbling oaf behind the bench, and as long as Colliton stays, you can invent a zillion line combinations, with Kane-Strome-Toews, and Dcat-Carpenter-the man in the moon blah blah blah, and it not gonna matter. We are not gonna be picking 20th, or 19th, or 14th. We are slotted to pick SEVENTH !!! And THATS with 2 good goalies. I suggest putting the bottle down, at least for a moment, and try to think logically. It's gonna get worse, and probably MUCH worse, before it gets better.

I can’t for the life of me understand why he took Subban as a piece of the trade. Living on his family name alone. You have 4 solid goalie prospects waiting in the wings. Wtf were you thinking?!
- Assman22

The deal with Vegas for Lehner was probably the only one on the board, so the Knights insisted on Subban going back. No big deal, he'll play 5-6 games the remainder of the year (if Crawford stays healthy) and probably will not be QO'd this summer. Like you said the Hawks have a few goalie prospects and Subban is taking up a 50 man roster space.