I believe this translates to "Rocky and McD said they need to be able to sell tickets in the rebuild".

FWIW, I wouldn't go that route.... Rip off the Band-Aid.
- mohel

Yep - as expected a very indirect answer. Utterly surprised that he said he's happy with the job Colliton is doing. This roster is not a bottom 15 roster yet they're bottom in the league in two very important areas.

Why are they dead last on the PP and one of the worst teams getting the puck out of their own zone?

I think we've proven that the players are buying into the system and the compete level is their for 85%+ of the players on a nightly basis.

This has to due with the coaching/schematics. Prove me wrong.

Not upset at all here with the deals yesterday.

I do not think Strome gets as huge a raise on his next deal as was anticipated earlier in the year.
Kubalik is a keeper and will get a decent raise.
- 35Tony0

Yeah, Strome is not entire back to his playing feet yet, and that and the fact that Nylander didn't have a crazy high offensive first NHL season helps sign both to deals that are lower Cap hits, and maybe great Cap balancers, so they are not continually pressed against the Cap before actually be a true contender again the way the Jets and other have already started feeling "Cap issues" before winning anything.

Toronto's Nylander got that fat deal - are they winning a Cup thisseaosn b/c of his acumen?

So maybe these two players new deals are a mixed blessing?

Alec Martinez got two 2nds, I believe. Would you rather pay that price for him, or Gus?
- mohel

A heavy playing Playoff vet and Cup winner? HIM !

Maybe im an outlier, but i believe the money that would've been used to resign Lehner is better used for other players. Kubalik and Strome are going to require huge pay raises. Not too mention, Debrincat is due 6m next year. Then you have Caggiula who will get a bump.

You want them or Lehner? We've seen what two elite goalies look like with this roster. They're trash.

Not too mention, we have 4, count them 4 goalies between Subban and rockford prospects.

I think most people are upset because they developed a bond with Lehner. And rightfully so, so did I.
- catrisc

Yogi Berra said "if you have three 2nd basemen you haven't got a 2nd baseman."

If the Avalanche didn't want him now, why would they want him in the offseason. They just re-upped Francouz and have Gurbauer, they seem happy with that tandem.

Carolina has cap space problems, they only have $8 mil. in cap space to sign 6 players. Plus the AHL goalie that starts with an N is their future #1.

Toronto would have to trade Anderson to even think about Lehner. That could possibly happen, but they have to find 4 more quality NHL defenseman with what little cap space they have before they can think about adding money for goaltending.

If a team is going to spend big money for a goalie, I would think they would be going after Holtby first.

San Jose could sure use a goalie, but talk about cap hell, and who is going to take 4 more years of Martin Jones at $5.75 mil/per.

Calgary might be a stop but first they only have 2 NHL defenseman signed next year, and they do have Riitich on the cheap.

I just don't see who is going to pay Lehner big bucks for term. Maybe he thought he had the Hawks over the barrel, he might be a late FA signing on a short term contract again next year.
- LAHawk

that's assuming the cap doesn't go up.

And the only positions they need to fill are one defenseman and two forwards next season.

Exactly. I'm sure Colorado had similar thoughts. At the end of the day, Colorado and Carolina chose not to outbid Vegas. Some want to blame Stan for that, which seems highly illogical....
- mohel

T H I S !!!!!!!!!


We let the sports writers stir the speculation, conjuring bold moves and trades of Bowen Byram because they are fan boys in their city's and are writing with itchy trigger fingers...

Stan Bowman just on WSCR sports radio Chicago. As usual he played things close to the vest and didn't reveal anything earth shattering.

Said he accomplished what he wanted to do by moving 2 UFA's, wouldn't comment on the details of the Lehner negotiations, hasn't written off the season since the team may go on a hot steak and make the playoffs, has some ideas who the #1 goalie will be next season (didn't name names), is trying to balance the short term and long term goals of the organization (whatever that means), wouldn't comment on whether his contract was extended last summer, likes the job Colliton is doing, hasn't approached "directly" the players with NMC's.

I'm looking for a link to the podcast. I'll post if I can find it.
- boilermaker100

Here's the link to the Bowman interview.

https://670thescore.radio...er-erik-gustafsson-trades

A heavy playing Playoff vet and Cup winner? HIM !
- wiz1901

And signed next year for $4 mil. which is very fair.

Carolina - late on the clock - got Skjei for a 1st. They certainly could have had Gus for a 1st. They didn't bite.
- StLBravesFan

if Gus were signed long term like Brady Skjel and was Brady....

Ok, usually I knee jerk to against Stan, but I think I did a bit of a knee jerk for him on these trades.

For starters, I am absolutely glad he got “something” for Gus and Lehner. Honestly, I think a 3rd was about all Gus was worth, he’s a very flawed D-man heading to F/A. So I really have no issues with this move. The Lehner move is not quite as positive even though I give Stan credit for not holding onto him and losing him for nothing.

One of the flaws I think Stan has his inability to maximize return. So going back to TDL moves he made to get players. He traded a first and a top prospect for both Vermette and Ladd. The prospects didn’t turn into anything, but at the time it was a great return for pending free agents. Stan did not get a first nor did he get a top prospect for a similar player this year. This is my biggest concern with Stan. It’s just like the Timo deal that was the same year Montreal acquired Jeff Petry for one 2nd round pick while Stan was dealing a pair of 2s for Kimo.

So that’s my issue with Stan, he seems to sell low while buying high. Juxtaposing similar deals Stan made to “buy in” with this Vegas trade to “buy in” and essentially Stan got 2 lottery tickets and a mediocre backup goalie. This is a far cry from a first and a top prospect he willingly (and I supported and still support) moved in a similar deal (outside of position). I don’t know if he’s just a lousy negotiator who gets pushed around in deals or “that’s all the market would bare”, but one way to “gauge market value” other than actually selling/trading a piece on the market is to use comps and that’s what I’ve done with the outstanding returns “sellers” got at this deadline as well as Stan’s own deals previously when he was buying. To that end, Bowman failed in my view.

Basically, my thoughts on Stan is he scored a D+/C- with these deals. If they can develop Subban then maybe it moves up and maybe Subban has untapped talent to exploit. If that’s Stan’s thinking and it works out I’ll revise this position. My worry is Stan appears to be a very poor negotiator. His trades seem lopsided (gives up a lot, doesn’t often get a lot), and even his dealings with players sees him handing out large money, large term and NTCs.

I think Stan IS getting a handle on the Cap, his moves seem to suggest he understands that part of it, but his trades are mostly questionable unless he does these under the radar type moves (like getting Ciguala for Pyon). So I give Stan average marks on Cap management, below average on trades/negotiations, but I do give him high marks for finding talent. Getting Panarin, Kahun, Kubilik, excellent drafting of late, it appears Boqvist and Dach are keepers and there are some other exciting young players on the rise in the system. Stan has done a fantastic job restocking, finding those diamonds, and is excellent in “lower tier” deals, but unless he figures out how to better negotiate the big deals we may struggle to really get back to elite status.

We did ok; not great. I guess it depends how the draft goes, if Subban can be "fixed" as a goalie, and if the new kid from Denver develops into something. All unknowns.

Matthew Barnaby said on XM yesterday that he heard weeks ago that Lehner was never in the team's long term plans. He intimated that he had sources within the team.
- hpk90

Barnaby probably has enough connections around the NHL to make that claim.
Interesting how 2 very conservatively run organizations (NYI/Lou Lamiorello) and the Hawks both walked away from Lehner despite his on ice performance.

He peobably should have kept his mouth shut a couple of weeks ago instead of saying he wasnt going to take a discount on signing a new deal.

Here is a sign of a rebuild... The Hawks have 11 players on their NHL roster 25 or younger. Mitchell is 21 and probably will sign and be on their roster next year. We will have a top 10 pick this year.
- -Doh-

Fun fact. Both Ian Mitchell and Kirby Dach are from St. Albert, AB, CAN. Played on different youth teams and a couple year difference in age.

that's assuming the cap doesn't go up.

And the only positions they need to fill are one defenseman and two forwards next season.
- BINGO!

My point is that if Lehner wants $7 mil., you are filling those positions with guys on ELC's, unless you can trade away (give)? both Reimer and Mrazak

Stan Bowman just on WSCR sports and said he accomplished what he wanted to do by moving 2 UFA's, wouldn't comment on the details of the Lehner negotiations, hasn't written off the season since the team may go on a hot steak and make the playoffs, has some ideas who the #1 goalie will be next season (didn't name names).
- boilermaker100

Vancouver's Markstrom please!, lol

Great points.

Heck, I like a lot of those defencemnen more than Gus. ha.

Carolina apparently didn't offer much because they got the news that Mrazek and/or Reimer will be back in a couple weeks. They better hope so because they are counting on Anton Forsberg and Nedeljkovic to help them get into a playoff position in a pivotal time.

I really thought there was something there with CAR and it looked like the unfortunate injury news was a strike of luck for Stan.

Thought the Hawks would entertain taking on James Reimer while eating 50% of Lehner to make the $$ work for CAR.

In return a late 1st rounder or a 2nd rd and a higher end prospect would been ideal in my opinion.

GM Waddall did not see it the way I did. That's why he's an NHL GM I guess and I'm not.
- Tyler Cameron

I expected more for Lehner, too. To me, the results at the TDL are like seeing the answers to the crossword puzzle- it tells us how close we were in our guess as to the players value.

To me, my post should be "I thought Lehner would get a better return from the market"; rather than "the GM (any GM) shoulda got more for Lehner".

Vancouver's Markstrom please!, lol
- wiz1901

Stan believes he just acquired his starting goalie of the future... Malcolm Subban and his .890 SV%.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lehner ends up back with the Hawks next year. Where else is he going to go to get close to what he wants in dollars and in term? I am sure he doesn't want a 1 or a 2 year deal, and he certainly does not want to be in a 1A, 1B situation next year. I really don't see him signing back with Ottawa and or Buffalo, 2 teams that can use a #1, so where else would he go? Plus you are going to have Holtby out there, I believe Markstrom is going to sign back with Vancouver, and if he doesn't it is because they can't make the numbers work, would Lehner take less than what Markstrom wants?
- LAHawk

If Stan wasn't going to meet Lehner's number without having him test free agency it doesn't really matter what team he's on when he hits the market. Give Stan a little credit, the team he's on now he definitely won't be returning too.

Yeah, Strome is not entire back to his playing feet yet, and that and the fact that Nylander didn't have a crazy high offensive first NHL season helps sign both to deals that are lower Cap hits, and maybe great Cap balancers, so they are not continually pressed against the Cap before actually be a true contender again the way the Jets and other have already started feeling "Cap issues" before winning anything.

Toronto's Nylander got that fat deal - are they winning a Cup thisseaosn b/c of his acumen?

So maybe these two players new deals are a mixed blessing?
- wiz1901

No doubt about Strome. Before his two injuries, I thought he was improved this year but the points were not just coming yet.
I also think D-cat overall game has improved, he looks faster, but he is still adjusting to using a longer stick this year. Or he may have a hand or wrist injury that is hindering him but not enough to sideline him.

Yep - as expected a very indirect answer. Utterly surprised that he said he's happy with the job Colliton is doing. This roster is not a bottom 15 roster yet they're bottom in the league in two very important areas.

Why are they dead last on the PP and one of the worst teams getting the puck out of their own zone?

I think we've proven that the players are buying into the system and the compete level is their for 85%+ of the players on a nightly basis.

This has to due with the coaching/schematics. Prove me wrong.
- catrisc

LOL.

T H I S !!!!!!!!!


We let the sports writers stir the speculation, conjuring bold moves and trades of Bowen Byram because they are fan boys in their city's and are writing with itchy trigger fingers...
- wiz1901

The goof at Prohockeytalk predicted Gus for a 1st! Big surprise he thought Stan did a bad job...

LOL.
- mohel

Prove me wrong pretty please?

Stan Bowman just on WSCR sports radio Chicago. As usual he played things close to the vest and didn't reveal anything earth shattering.

Said he accomplished what he wanted to do by moving 2 UFA's, wouldn't comment on the details of the Lehner negotiations, hasn't written off the season since the team may go on a hot steak and make the playoffs, has some ideas who the #1 goalie will be next season (didn't name names), is trying to balance the short term and long term goals of the organization (whatever that means), wouldn't comment on whether his contract was extended last summer, likes the job Colliton is doing, hasn't approached "directly" the players with NMC's.

I'm looking for a link to the podcast. I'll post if I can find it.
- boilermaker100

blah blah blah no comment on lehner..telling...and thats the problem the long term and short term goals do not alighn

blah blah blah no comment on lehner..telling...and thats the problem the long term and short term goals do not alighn
- bogiedoc

THIS! I think you're on to something.

Hello, Wolfie, can you explain how Stan could increase the return? Use Gus and Lehner as examples. What would be done, specifically, to raise the offers to a level you would find acceptable?

Stan never fails to disappoint. Where are the Stan apologists now? The ones who gave him credit for helping *cough* maintaining their pseudo dynasty? Yeah, it's tough to put gas and oil in a Maserati that was handed to you on a silver platter. He has however, done quite well at slamming the door shut on any hope of making any more Cup runs the last few years. Just watch what Pittsburgh and Boston have done to rebuild on the fly to see competent GMs.

I'm not stunned by the returns on the players he dealt. We've seen enough of his magic the last ten years. He's fine with small deals; little tweaks here or there. Hell, any GM could have done those, if not more. It was his lack of foresight in his moves that's been the problem. There was a certain period of time I thought that maybe insider influence was affecting is ability to make deals. If that's true, then they need to clear the entire front office too.

Hopefully Rocky has had enough and will not make another incestuous front office hire, and get some outsider eyes on this dumpster fire. Stan can go watch games with daddy down in Tampa. Maybe Stan can save a seat for the fax machine as well.