Do you ever feel like you’re (your) just beating your head against a brick wall?
- Ogilthorpe2

I'll admit, I can be a bit wordy and get lost in the weeds, but yes.

That's what the "on paper" part was about. They made moves to fill in around the stars. These moves were improvements over what we had last year (save for Smith). The fact they did not work out is not the point. The point I've been repeating is that it is not complacency or stupidity that they are not making the playoffs this year. As Squish said, they had 17M to use (for the first time in ages), and they used it to beef up the D, and in goal. Before de Haan went down he was one of our best players. Maatta is better than Davidson, Manning, Ruutta, and Dahlstrom.

I'm not absolving the FO for past bad decisions. I am saying for the 8th time that the road back to being a good team will take a long time regardless of who is in charge (because we have a lot of money tied up in few players - again) and we should not be surprised by that.
- Chunk

I really didn't want them to use that cap space. I am full on board for the rebuild.

If there was more than one of me, I would have a serious problem with your wording here...
- Chunk

Sorry, I was just trying to oblige someone else

Nope, the cap, imo, isn't the problem right now. It did cause a bunch of good players to have move on. The trouble is that the absolute studs the Hawks have lost in the last five years have not been replaced. The only place to get them young is the draft (maybe a foreign FA once in a while). The Hawks drafted low for a decade and traded picks to win Cups. Tough to do in that scenario, imo. Find me a GM who can do it, and I will join your request for Stan's ouster.
- mohel

Pens, Caps, Bruins have all done alright all being top end during the same length of time as the Hawks...

Pens, Caps, Bruins have all done alright all being top end during the same length of time as the Hawks...
- Savetheembers33

they also changed GM. (not advocating for that, just pointing out the difference)

I really didn't want them to use that cap space. I am full on board for the rebuild.
- Elbows15

So is that dumping everything that isn't tied down (Saad, Murphy, Maatta, de Haan - if you can) and just keep everyone under 22 and those with NMC? no sarcasm.

they also changed GM.
- squishy24

BINGO.

But by all means let us keep giving Stan a shot at fixing this team because of what he did five, six, seven years ago

Pens, Caps, Bruins have all done alright all being top end during the same length of time as the Hawks...
- Savetheembers33

And the hawks have done as well or better

It does seem that the pro scouting dept. is lacking. For our position drafting, we do not seem to be too bad. European scouting seems to be way above average.
- LAHawk

Maybe they have a flock of Polish grandma's cooking for them?

And the hawks have done as well or better
- paulr

How so? All of the teams I mentioned are currently Playoff teams and have gone through ups and downs but have found a way to get back to contention with the elite players they have.

I don't have an answer right now as to who would be better to take over for Stan. Honestly, unless you are DIE-HARD and dialed into the sport you probably wouldn't have a very good idea either.

The point is that he's had several cracks at trying to make this work and it's failed over and over and over again. At some point what you did in the past can't continue to have you keep your job. His handprints are ALL over this team and it's failed. That's on him.

That doesn't mean he can't do a good job as a GM. It just means that things have run its course and it's time for change and fresh set of eyes to try and fix the team IMO.

How so? All of the teams I mentioned are currently Playoff teams and have gone through ups and downs but have found a way to get back to contention with the elite players they have.

I don't have an answer right now as to who would be better to take over for Stan. Honestly, unless you are DIE-HARD and dialed into the sport you probably wouldn't have a very good idea either.

The point is that he's had several cracks at trying to make this work and it's failed over and over and over again. At some point what you did in the past can't continue to have you keep your job. His handprints are ALL over this team and it's failed. That's on him.

That doesn't mean he can't do a good job as a GM. It just means that things have run its course and it's time for change and fresh set of eyes to try and fix the team IMO.
- Savetheembers33

Hawks - 3 Cups
Pens. - 3 Cups
Bruins. - 1 Cup
Caps. - 1 Cup

This year's team vs. last year's team:

Total Goals:
Last year - 267 = 201 ratio thru 62 games
This year - 179
Reduction - 22 goals

This is primarily due to:
AdB Last Year - 41 = 31 thru 62
games; this year 16; deficit = 15 goals
Strome Last year - 17 in 58 games = 15 in 50 games; this year 10; deficit = 5 goals
Gus Last Year - 17 in 79 games = 13 in 62 games; this year 6; deficit = 7 goals

Kane (-6) and Toews (-10) are also down by a combined 16; offset by Kubalik's 26.

How many more points would this year's team have with the 20 lost goals from ADB and Strome? It ain't all on the defense.

Hawks - 3 Cups
Pens. - 3 Cups
Bruins. - 1 Cup
Caps. - 1 Cup
- paulr

I'm not referring to cup wins. That's obvious.

I'm referring to being in Playoff contention and having to draft late to supplement your roster. All of those teams have had to draft in the back third of the draft yet have been able to develop guys who could come up and make a difference. Also, they've made trades or signings to help complement their star players. Because they've been able to do that they've stayed in contention year in and year out which should be the goal. Failure to do so falls on one person: the GM.

Gus has been traded. What can we keep an eye out for ? Let's watch if our goals against improves for the remainder of the season, and how our overall defense responds, and we can watch the goals against for Calgary and how much it changes. If Gus is on their power play unit #1 or #2, how does Calgary do ? Will be interesting to watch. Lehner has been traded. How will he fare in Vega$ ? Hope he does well. Where will he sign in the offseason ? Will he get the big contract ? How much $$$. How many years ??

Hawks - 3 Cups
Pens. - 3 Cups
Bruins. - 1 Cup
Caps. - 1 Cup
- paulr

Kings - 2 Cups, in hell now.
Wings - x Cups, depends how you count, in double hell.
Sharks and Ducks, no Cups in hell.
Oilers and Sabres, no cups, in hell for past 10 years.
Leafs - no Cups rebuilt and Franked.

If Stan really sucks a lot of other guys never mind.

Hawks - 3 Cups
Pens. - 3 Cups
Bruins. - 1 Cup
Caps. - 1 Cup
- paulr

Cups are a good measure.

For long-term success, you could look at playoff runs:

Pittsburgh has made the tournament every year 12 years, including this season.
Washington has made the playoffs 11 times in 12 years.
Boston has made the playoffs 10 times in 12 years.
Chicago has made the postseason 9 times in 12 years.

You could make the case that the other three have been more successful and consistent over time.

So is that dumping everything that isn't tied down (Saad, Murphy, Maatta, de Haan - if you can) and just keep everyone under 22 and those with NMC? no sarcasm.
- Chunk

To an extent. I would keep Murphy. Maybe Saad. You do need some vets to help with the rebuild. My point was more about not using that space last off-season, tho.

I'm not referring to cup wins. That's obvious.

I'm referring to being in Playoff contention and having to draft late to supplement your roster. All of those teams have had to draft in the back third of the draft yet have been able to develop guys who could come up and make a difference. Also, they've made trades or signings to help complement their star players. Because they've been able to do that they've stayed in contention year in and year out which should be the goal. Failure to do so falls on one person: the GM.
- Savetheembers33

All those teams will be in the same position at the hawks are now or worse. Look at LA and Detroit. Look at all the teams that are in the same mess or are on track to as Chicago and have nothing to show for it

BINGO.

But by all means let us keep giving Stan a shot at fixing this team because of what he did five, six, seven years ago
- Savetheembers33

Ruterford, MacLellan and Sweeney are probably the top 3 GM's in the league. David Poile who is supposed to be a GM guru hasn't won a cup in his what 20 years as a GM. Sakic is in year 6, it took Doug Amrstrong 9 year to win a cup.

Hextall is probably the most qualified, but he was not without his faults either

https://www.broadstreetho...as-relieved-of-his-duties

Kyle Dubas might become available soon. They forced Lou out, and he is now employed by the Isle's. That was done by a hockey guy Shanahan.

Maybe Stan should of taken the safe route and hired Hitchkock, or some other named coach. I think Stan knew he had to refurbish the furniture, and was looking for a coach that could grow into the job, not someone (like a Babcock) who would criticize that he didn't get the type of players that the coach (who always wants to win now) wanted.

Bowman gets dogged all of the time. Why don't the people complaining about Bowman point out:
They have had a top pairing defender playing for them for 10 years with a $5.5 mil cap hit.
They have a rookie that scored 26 goals so far that is being paid $925,000 and was acquired for a 5th round pick.
ADB, a 2nd round pick, scored 69 goals in his first two seasons.
Ryan Hartman was traded to Nashville for a 1st round pick.
- -Doh-

ALL GOOD

Ruterford, MacLellan and Sweeney are probably the top 3 GM's in the league. David Poile who is supposed to be a GM guru hasn't won a cup in his what 20 years as a GM. Sakic is in year 6, it took Doug Amrstrong 9 year to win a cup.

Hextall is probably the most qualified, but he was not without his faults either

https://www.broadstreetho...as-relieved-of-his-duties

Kyle Dubas might become available soon. They forced Lou out, and he is now employed by the Isle's. That was done by a hockey guy Shanahan.

Maybe Stan should of taken the safe route and hired Hitchkock, or some other named coach. I think Stan knew he had to refurbish the furniture, and was looking for a coach that could grow into the job, not someone (like a Babcock) who would criticize that he didn't get the type of players that the coach (who always wants to win now) wanted.
- LAHawk

I think if he could go back in time Shanahan would rethink the Dubas Hunter decision

All those teams will be in the same position at the hawks are now or worse. Look at LA and Detroit. Look at all the teams that are in the same mess or are on track to as Chicago and have nothing to show for it
- paulr

Yes, they probably will be I'm not arguing that. The shoe will drop for them at some point. My point is that it dropped sooner for the Hawks than MANY thought it would and that goes to one person: Stan. He's the architect for this team the past several years.

The point is that all of those teams were able to find impact talent with their draft picks and make the right smart signings when they needed to and Stan has not. Guys who were drafted five years ago when we were in the midst of our run should be contributing to this team now. The guys who should are either gone because they were traded or they weren't good. That again is on Stan.

Pens, Caps, Bruins have all done alright all being top end during the same length of time as the Hawks...
- Savetheembers33

Pens had a downturn in the middle of their run. Caps are in theirs now, not near as long as Hawks. Bruins have done well, and have one Cup.

We'll see how they all do when their big guns' production slips.

Ruterford, MacLellan and Sweeney are probably the top 3 GM's in the league. David Poile who is supposed to be a GM guru hasn't won a cup in his what 20 years as a GM. Sakic is in year 6, it took Doug Amrstrong 9 year to win a cup.

Hextall is probably the most qualified, but he was not without his faults either

https://www.broadstreetho...as-relieved-of-his-duties

Kyle Dubas might become available soon. They forced Lou out, and he is now employed by the Isle's. That was done by a hockey guy Shanahan.

Maybe Stan should of taken the safe route and hired Hitchkock, or some other named coach. I think Stan knew he had to refurbish the furniture, and was looking for a coach that could grow into the job, not someone (like a Babcock) who would criticize that he didn't get the type of players that the coach (who always wants to win now) wanted.
- LAHawk

The issue I always had with JC was his credibility. Not his hockey IQ or his ability to talk to the guys. I still believe he could be a good coach. The issue is that having a guy come in with zero success is coming in telling guys who've won three cups to change what they've been doing because his way will work better for them. Idk about any of you but I would have a VERY hard buying into that. As anyone should, I would give it a shot to see how it goes, but you gotta believe there are times that the guys look at what's going on and just roll their eyes. That's where having a coach with experience would have benefited them more IMO.

Pens had a downturn in the middle of their run. Caps are in theirs now, not near as long as Hawks. Bruins have done well, and have one Cup.

We'll see how they all do when their big guns' production slips.
- mohel

Caps are in a downturn? They could win the East!

Boston has a lot of good, young, talent including their best player who is mid 20's. THe thing about all three teams you mentioned: They all have good Head Coaches. THe Hawks dont. They have solid GM's, the Hawks don't.