Very good point. Id rather have Matthews turn into a 40 goal 90 point player who plays a 200 foot game defensively. Then a 60 goal 100 point player thats mostly offense and just mediocre in his own end. Sad thing is theres a ton more fans out there that if he did drop down 20 goals they would be calling for his head yelling trade the bum, hes declining hes finished....

- Buck Norris

What if he scores like 50 goals (on pace for right now) and plays a 200 foot game?

Dubas: "when Ayres went in the net, we were in a no-win position".


This guy probably gave Matthews and the boys participation ribbons after the game.

Mike in Buffalo has, quite unfortunately, been at this well beyond his best before date. The idea that the Leafs have gone into every other stretch drives with the lack of hype we are seeing now is crazy. To imply after the fact they where stupid to go into the playoffs with JVR, Gardiner, Bozak instead of dealing them for prospects is the kind of crap people like Steve Simmons writes merely to keep stroking his ego and stuffing his bank account. It's sad that Mike in Buffalo" is now well down that road himself.

Marner is what Marner is. He’s a perimeter guy who is extremely talented at dishing the puck and disrupting play. Without an all star center to play with tho I doubt his point totals would be all that high.
- Dozzer

this comments is the best of this whole derailed thread.
0.0 clue about how good marner is..

Great point. Melnyk is despised in Ottawa. His greatest problem is not the average fan. The entire business community has turned against Melnyk. Nothing will change until there is a change in ownership.
- spatso

This draft is huge for the Sens. Make or break IMO. But in saying that I'm also in the belief that a trade can be had with them as well because financially for them it might be tuff to wait it out and they might wanna rush it a bit. I'd target both the SJ and NY picks IMO. Nylander of interest hmmmmm....

pietrangelo @ 11+ mil would be a huge mistake.
- ghetto puck

A+

I was huge fan of the Shaniplan and thought the Leafs were finally starting to rebuild the right way. I believe Lou was outstanding in his careful and patient crafting of the team rebuild.

Signing Tavares was an unwise move. It disrupted the natural growth of a young team and threw the entire salary structure out of whack. Moving Kadri was also an error, but it can be more easily repaired.

If the Leafs sign another top UFA like Pietrangelo, they will have blown up any notion that they are an improving team setting up for a championship run. It could work. But, where can they grow. If adding an elite UFA defensive asset fails to produce a contender...what next.

The problem is clearly Dubas. He may be a great talent evaluator. But, building a championship team is something entirely different. Not sure how to unravel the current situation. But, I don't think Dubas should be allowed to drive the adjustment that is needed.

This draft is huge for the Sens. Make or break IMO. But in saying that I'm also in the belief that a trade can be had with them as well because financially for them it might be tuff to wait it out and they might wanna rush it a bit. I'd target both the SJ and NY picks IMO. Nylander of interest hmmmmm....

- Buck Norris

I would do it. But, it is not a likely option. Melnyk would not approve of taking on a top salary in a trade and they are already setting up to sign Tkachuk this summer at $8m+ over 8 years.

Better potential deal in looking at Kapanen for a 2nd plus. Ottawa already has a very deep prospect pool. They will spin off draft and prospect assets this summer for a couple of NHL ready players (eg Zaitsev and Connor Brown from last summer). I doubt they are prepared to take on a heavy contract.

oh man, after I logged off yesterday it got very stinky in here, the same 4 people poopting all over the place

what a bunch of whiners

Dubas: "when Ayres went in the net, we were in a no-win position".


This guy probably gave Matthews and the boys participation ribbons after the game.
- fifty__missions

jesus, did he really say that?

oh man, after I logged off yesterday it got very stinky in here, the same 4 people poopting all over the place

what a bunch of whiners
- senstroll

Yeah, it's game over for the Leafs.

We should've unloaded all of our UFAs and thrown in the towel while sitting in a playoff spot with 19 games left to go.

When things get tough, you give up and throw it all away.

Quitting is the only solution.

jesus, did he really say that?
- sensarmy_11

He meant "lose/lose situation" and was alluding to the fact that the media would've been all over the Leafs for requiring a EBUG in net to win an important game, which is pretty likely.

Auston Matthews: First year of five-year contract
Mitch Marner: First year of six-year contract
William Nylander: Second year of six-year contract
John Tavares: Second year of seven-year contract


Time to rebuild, the window has closed.

He meant "lose/lose situation" and was alluding to the fact that the media would've been all over the Leafs for requiring a EBUG in net to win an important game, which is pretty likely.
- gravyface

maybe, but that story would have gone away by the next day.........the current story will be sticking around for a long time.

it's a "small lose/massive lose" situation. but he's essentially admitting that the media attention is getting to him......that's what I hear in that comment.

jesus, did he really say that?
- sensarmy_11

I think he was saying that the team up until that point had played so bad that even if they won it would have been embarrassing. If they win, they get no credit..because zamboni driver and if they lose....well they lost..it happened

Auston Matthews: First year of five-year contract
Mitch Marner: First year of six-year contract
William Nylander: Second year of six-year contract
John Tavares: Second year of seven-year contract


Time to rebuild, the window has closed.
- gravyface

when 4 players take up more than 50% of your cap, it's hard to surround them with quality depth pieces.

rebuilding is obviously stupid, but they need to get rid of one of those 3 10+ mil deals.........it will be very difficult for them to compete with the elite teams when they're so top heavy

Auston Matthews: First year of five-year contract
Mitch Marner: First year of six-year contract
William Nylander: Second year of six-year contract
John Tavares: Second year of seven-year contract


Time to rebuild, the window has closed.
- gravyface

they may at some point have to break up the band to address other areas, and thats fine. but I really doubt Dubas and his guys are let go anytime soon. this is year 1 of this team and only 4 months into his coach. Its gone worse that anyone hoped so far, but lots of teams take many shots at it.

We have seen lots of GMs come and go trying all different ways to win a cup in Toronto. It may not be Dubas, might be the next guy or the next one.

maybe, but that story would have gone away by the next day.........the current story will be sticking around for a long time.

it's a "small lose/massive lose" situation. but he's essentially admitting that the media attention is getting to him......that's what I hear in that comment.
- sensarmy_11

I'm not surprised. Are you? TOR is a tough market to play in, especially now that there is a cap.

If that EBUG game happened in DAL against AZ, nobody would be talking about it.

What if he scores like 50 goals (on pace for right now) and plays a 200 foot game?
- burn

I was just using the number as examples Mathews is a Stud. He is rocket richarding as a center with a couple wingers and wingers have more of an advantage IMO. Plus I think I'm one of the only ones who puts him at McDavids level. People will wine female dog and chew about me saying that but IMO its (frank)ing true. He is the best 5on5 player in probably over a decade. He puts up Ovechkin like numbers in his first four years as a center. He is a +17 some how on a Leafs team with a brutal defense. McDavid is a -7 and a 100 point player still in the minus is on the ice at some point when a lot of goals are scored against. No I'm not saying to believe +- is a usfull stat because take it for what its worth. But when Mathews is on the ice the chances are greatly in his favor. Matthews is a beast just saying....

when 4 players take up more than 50% of your cap, it's hard to surround them with quality depth pieces.

rebuilding is obviously stupid, but they need to get rid of one of those 3 10+ mil deals.........it will be very difficult for them to compete with the elite teams when they're so top heavy
- sensarmy_11

Bergeron $6.8m, Patsternak $6.5m, Marchand $6.1m and Chara $2.m.

Hard to compete.

Leafs have 10 picks in the draft, they are all 7th rounders, but still

Bergeron $6.8m, Patsternak $6.5m, Marchand $6.1m and Chara $2.m.

Hard to compete.
- spatso

The Leafs are def starting well behind the starting line against Boston.
but 3 of those players are 31, 34 and 42.

The Leafs top 4 are 10 years younger.
When Chara was 23 he was still and Islander, Bergerson was a 40 point player still 3 years away from the cup. Marchand was a rookie at 22

Lets have a look at things in 10 years once the Leafs have caught up in time played

I'm not surprised. Are you? TOR is a tough market to play in, especially now that there is a cap.

If that EBUG game happened in DAL against AZ, nobody would be talking about it.
- gravyface

definitely a tough market. I think to succeed there you need to be a really high character, mentally tough player (sundin, Gilmour, clark, domi, etc).

it almost feels like dubas thinks the leafs could be like last years blues and if that is the case, he cannot be anymore delusional.
- ghetto puck

It doesnt feel that way at all.
It's clear after Saturdays franchise low that dubie lost some faith in this team and the core. He simply put the brakes on any plans they had and rightfully so. No sense wasting any more assets on this group right now.
If they miss the playoffs, one of the big will have to be moved. But that is months down the road and only if they miss the playoffs.
They're really inconsistant and simply cannot put together back to back games where they defend and play well.
Babs was a small problem this year, but there is a bigger issue with this team.
Which could fix itself with maturity...dunno. We'll see.

The Leafs are def starting well behind the starting line against Boston.
but 3 of those players are 31, 34 and 42.

The Leafs top 4 are 10 years younger.
When Chara was 23 he was still and Islander, Bergerson was a 40 point player still 3 years away from the cup. Marchand was a rookie at 22

Lets have a look at things in 10 years once the Leafs have caught up in time played
- senstroll

A+.

There is a competitive window. Pittsburgh, Boston and Washington seem to have hit the right mix of salary, age and competitive intensity. Disappointment and patience are clearly part of the mix.

The Leafs are def starting well behind the starting line against Boston.
but 3 of those players are 31, 34 and 42.

The Leafs top 4 are 10 years younger.
When Chara was 23 he was still and Islander, Bergerson was a 40 point player still 3 years away from the cup. Marchand was a rookie at 22

Lets have a look at things in 10 years once the Leafs have caught up in time played
- senstroll

I think the problem was signing Tavares. Not because he isn't a great player, he obviously is, but the precedent was set. Why would players who produce the same ever want to take less money.....add that to the fact that they really didn't need him, already having Matthews and Kadri as top six centers. that was Dubas trying to "announce his presence" by signing a deal that he never should have signed.

I think Toronto is in a much better place right now With Matthews and Kadri, instead of Tavares, plus all the extra cap space. i'm fairly confident that if you don't have Tavares making that kind of money, you probably have Matthews for Marner both signed at under 10 mil