Can we officially stop using this Botts term 'middle six'? For one, The idea of a middle six forward is someone who could be a 2nd liner. I think it is abundantly clear that Sheary, Vesey, Simmonds, and anyone else who has been given this middle six tag is not ever capable of being an decent NHL second liner.

These are bottom six forwards, plain and simple. He got what according to a lot of advanced stats is not just NJ's worst forward, but one of the league's worst forwards in Simmonds. The other guy has 27 points. These are depth players, not 'middle six' forwards.

The standard is just so embarrassingly low around here. Simmonds is a fourth liner, but realistically at this point isn't even making a really good team, and here we talk about him as someone who is going to lead a playoff charge from the 'middle six'.

If you like the moves fine. Just don't use wordplay to make it sound better than it is.
- matty12345

So these guys are not on the Eichel line and not on the LOG (loosely defined as the forechecking and defensive 4th line) so why can't people define them as middle six? They play for the Sabres in a middle six role. No one is saying they are middle six anywhere else.

Can we officially stop using this Botts term 'middle six'? For one, The idea of a middle six forward is someone who could be a 2nd liner. I think it is abundantly clear that Sheary, Vesey, Simmonds, and anyone else who has been given this middle six tag is not ever capable of being an decent NHL second liner.

These are bottom six forwards, plain and simple. He got what according to a lot of advanced stats is not just NJ's worst forward, but one of the league's worst forwards in Simmonds. The other guy has 27 points. These are depth players, not 'middle six' forwards.

The standard is just so embarrassingly low around here. Simmonds is a fourth liner, but realistically at this point isn't even making a really good team, and here we talk about him as someone who is going to lead a playoff charge from the 'middle six'.

If you like the moves fine. Just don't use wordplay to make it sound better than it is.
- matty12345

24 points put him as tied for the 203 highest point total (obviously you'll have some that are better at ppg clip) but just using raw numbers, 203/93 (3 players per line, times 31 teams) you get 2.18279 or middle of second and third line stats. That's where the term "middle six" is coming from. Simmons will play in the league for another 2/3 years if he chooses to. I don't think he is a great target, but we gave up a 5th, so it's not like we gave up some guy who will play next year. Or the year after. Or the year after. Or possibly ever. I like the move because he's better then ERod, period. If we continue to get players that are better then the ones we currently have, that's an upgrade and I'll take it.

What he DIDN'T do was he didn't overpay for a 3C, which is what everyone else did.
- Powerslave

Bingo...

I am not mad a t all with what Botts did yesterday. Picked up a veteran player that has scored in the past with grit which this team needs desperately. Also got rid of 2 players that were plugs for a younger player with some potential.

The time to make a trade for the #2 center will be in the summer not at the deadline.

I just don't know if I trust Botts to get it done.
- hehateme

This is fair. I am not saying Botts will get it done. But as far as yesterday, he did what he could without giving up anything anyone would care about (at all). I like have 2nd round picks, so I would have cared about that, depending on return.

I love thinking that these trades could of, should of, or would of happened months ago. What makes you think both sides were ready to do the specific deals earlier in the season?

I was under the impression that this season was not targeted to be a playoff year and an improvement into the mid to high 80s was/is very good progress.

This year was about shedding dead weight and salaries of expiring contracts. This seems to have happened. Perhaps it could of/should of been more but, it could have been less.

The off-season with cap flexibility, which we did not have before this year, I believe is the Sabres target. As it has been pointed out, deck chairs will be shuffled throughout the league and July 1 improvements should be in decent to good supply. The trade deadline would not have provided this and did not.

My season as a ticket holder has provided me a roller coaster of fan emotion. I have been to games this year that I walked out of mid second period and I have been to games where I stayed through OT and thoroughly enjoyed the game. This year we can say that the Sabres were expected to win some games as opposed to previous seasons where we viewed wins as lucky.

I think it as been a year of progress and I look forward to (hope?) a good to great FA and draft season.
- TC4145[/img]

Very well said. The GM did exactly what needed to be done yesterday taking all factors into consideration. I think Ralph and his crew are doing a great job and you can see this team is becoming more consistent under his system. The playoffs will be tough to make this year but they will make it very interesting. You just never know.

Sabres are tied for the 4th most difficult schedule during the last 20 games.

Toronto is middle of the pack.

https://www.nhl.com/news/...c-305362652?tid=277729150

It's not true that we have cap space next year, btw.

Start with around 34.5, according to capfriendly. Give Sam 7, give Olofsson 3.5, give Montour 4.5, give Kahun 2. Now I have 17.5 million. Let's bring Lazar back for 1, so 16.5 mil.

I only have 8F, 6D, 1G, so I need to bring in a goalie for say 2.1 (whether Ullmark or someone else), and a 7th d for 900k, Now I'm down to 13.5 million. Probably have to pay some bonuses, because Botts didn't clear enough cap this year to pay them all, so best case I got 12 million to spend on 4-5 forwards.

They might be able to squeek a second liner into that budget, but more likely just resigning Vesey for 3ish, Girgs for 2.5, and Larsson for 2.5, leaves you with some money for one 4 million dollar player.

This is all super approximate, but as a whole I think all those numbers are team friendly. Reinhart could be 7.5, Montour could be 5, etc.
- matty12345

Thanks. Have you ever been positive about anything? I am still looking forward to the progress.

So these guys are not on the Eichel line and not on the LOG (loosely defined as the forechecking and defensive 4th line) so why can't people define them as middle six? They play for the Sabres in a middle six role. No one is saying they are middle six anywhere else.
- TC4145

Because it's like telling a cop you had 2-3 beers when you know for certain it was at least 3, maybe 4.

Sabres are tied for the 4th most difficult schedule during the last 20 games.

Toronto is middle of the pack.

https://www.nhl.com/news/...c-305362652?tid=277729150
- buffalofan19

All subjective..... we lost Det but beat Pit so we can be ahead scratcher

What he DIDN'T do was he didn't overpay for a 3C, which is what everyone else did.
- Powerslave

I disagree with the characterization of Trochek as a 3C but Botterill at least tried to do that to some degree which is a step in the right direction (acquiring an actual center). Not a winger, not a prospect, a real center. That gives me hope that he will pull something off this summer so we're not playing the "plug in the prospect" game

Bingo...
- hehateme

Very well said. The GM did exactly what needed to be done yesterday taking all factors into consideration. I think Ralph and his crew are doing a great job and you can see this team is becoming more consistent under his system. The playoffs will be tough to make this year but they will make it very interesting. You just never know.
- Camel

According to EK, Buffalo is only projected for 4 more points in 21 games.

Yikes.....

It's not true that we have cap space next year, btw.

Start with around 34.5, according to capfriendly. Give Sam 7, give Olofsson 3.5, give Montour 4.5, give Kahun 2. Now I have 17.5 million. Let's bring Lazar back for 1, so 16.5 mil.

I only have 8F, 6D, 1G, so I need to bring in a goalie for say 2.1 (whether Ullmark or someone else), and a 7th d for 900k, Now I'm down to 13.5 million. Probably have to pay some bonuses, because Botts didn't clear enough cap this year to pay them all, so best case I got 12 million to spend on 4-5 forwards.

They might be able to squeek a second liner into that budget, but more likely just resigning Vesey for 3ish, Girgs for 2.5, and Larsson for 2.5, leaves you with some money for one 4 million dollar player.

This is all super approximate, but as a whole I think all those numbers are team friendly. Reinhart could be 7.5, Montour could be 5, etc.
- matty12345

Nothing says we have to keep all these guys though... That's where the cap flexibility is. Could we? Sure. Do we have to? No. Say Montour is traded for a forward (2nd liner) and you let his 5 go to that guy. RD is fine, and left do would be Pilut up which isn't much. Now you have 8M to figure it out with.

According to EK, Buffalo is only projected for 4 more points in 21 games.

Yikes.....
- hehateme

Should I take the over?

Because it's like telling a cop you had 2-3 beers when you know for certain it was at least 3, maybe 4.
- matty12345

They are middle six here, in Buffalo. They play here, in Buffalo. Why would you compare them to another team as their play here is what defines them here.

Plus, you are really quick to point out that your definition is the only definition.

24 points put him as tied for the 203 highest point total (obviously you'll have some that are better at ppg clip) but just using raw numbers, 203/93 (3 players per line, times 31 teams) you get 2.18279 or middle of second and third line stats. That's where the term "middle six" is coming from. Simmons will play in the league for another 2/3 years if he chooses to. I don't think he is a great target, but we gave up a 5th, so it's not like we gave up some guy who will play next year. Or the year after. Or the year after. Or possibly ever. I like the move because he's better then ERod, period. If we continue to get players that are better then the ones we currently have, that's an upgrade and I'll take it.
- SDSabre

I agree with this. The players are not top end, yes, we all know. The only one moved yesterday that might be top end was Pageau, but he is having a career year at 27, I am not sure I would have paid the price the Islanders did. He upgraded the middle, we need more scoring there (LOG line and Eichel line score at a reasonable clip). And as I stated gave up next to nothing to improve, I love that.

I wanted to move Girgensons and Larsson for a while, but with the way that line is playing, unless you get a 2nd round pick or better, just keep for now.

I disagree with the characterization of Trochek as a 3C but Botterill at least tried to do that to some degree which is a step in the right direction (acquiring an actual center). Not a winger, not a prospect, a real center. That gives me hope that he will pull something off this summer so we're not playing the "plug in the prospect" game
- jcragcrumple

+1
There were centers dealt who could be a 2/3 C till someone is ready to step in

key point being ready to step in

Thanks. Have you ever been positive about anything? I am still looking forward to the progress.
- TC4145

If being positive means pretending we have cap space when we don't, then no I'm not positive.

I am pretty positive about where this team could be. I think if they switched GM's they could be one or two impact trades or signings from being really quite good. I just don't think Botteril is the man to do it.

Nothing says we have to keep all these guys though... That's where the cap flexibility is. Could we? Sure. Do we have to? No. Say Montour is traded for a forward (2nd liner) and you let his 5 go to that guy. RD is fine, and left do would be Pilut up which isn't much. Now you have 8M to figure it out with.
- SDSabre

Agreed - RFAs with flexibility as opposed to anchors with term.

I believe Matty is one of guys that hates the makeup of this team but has the Sabres singing everyone that is already here.

If being positive means pretending we have cap space when we don't, then no I'm not positive.

I am pretty positive about where this team could be. I think if they switched GM's they could be one or two impact trades or signings from being really quite good. I just don't think Botteril is the man to do it.
- matty12345

There will be 35M in space. They will spend it on players. Some will be ones that we already have, some will be from the outside. How is that not cap space?

Newb Log

They are middle six here, in Buffalo. They play here, in Buffalo. Why would you compare them to another team as their play here is what defines them here.

Plus, you are really quick to point out that your definition is the only definition.
- TC4145

If we are ever going to be better, at some point we have to use the league standard, not the buffalo one.

Sobotka was on the second line here. That doesn't make him a second liner.

Look I'm really not trying to be negative. I'm just holding the team to the standard the rest of the NHL has.

If being positive means pretending we have cap space when we don't, then no I'm not positive.

I am pretty positive about where this team could be. I think if they switched GM's they could be one or two impact trades or signings from being really quite good. I just don't think Botteril is the man to do it.
- matty12345

Sabres got rid of anchors and expired contracts. Sabres have RFAs that provide room to operate as opposed to previous years. The Sabres now have flexibility and with flexibility, the Sabres could get cap room.

I also am the guy who has not written off Cozens or Mitts for next year. Optimism for me, insanity for others.

Thanks. Have you ever been positive about anything? I am still looking forward to the progress.
- TC4145

To be fair to - matty12345 - he is right, we don't have tons of cap room, but we could trade anyone of the players and improve that. So we have more options than cap room.

I tend to feel that it is Risto on Montour. One or the other next year. Can't pay both.

I think you will see Asplund, Cozens, Mittlestadt (whats his next contract look like?) up with Sabres, so those will be rookie (minus Mitts) contracts, so that helps. So we should be in decent shape this offseason, but have lots of work to do.

According to EK, Buffalo is only projected for 4 more points in 21 games.

Yikes.....
- hehateme

Ek trolling to get more hits on his own page. He knows our page gets the most hits, so he's trying to boost his own numbers.