No, Kreider is not Ovi, but your point is that players fade in their early 30s, and that's just not necessarily true. Even if with Kreider it's on a lesser scale, the point still holds. But then you say that if you don't have younger guys come in, we won't have the next great one. How's that going so far? Is Brett Howden great? Libor Hajek? Brendan Lemieux? Ryan Lindgren is arguably the best player they've gotten back so far, but he still doesn't exactly have me thinking that a dynasty is just around the corner. And have any of the players you've heard rumored to come back for Kreider likely to be great? Why would a team give up someone with any likelihood of being great for a rental?

The point is, they're basically doing it your way as it is, and I think it's very fair to argue that it's failing. They made some huge acquisitions over the offseason, including one of the league's best players, and they're not much, if any, better than they were last year. Maybe that's because rather than joining high-quality veterans, they're joining mediocre youth obtained for those high-quality veterans.

I'm not going to go as far as to say that age is just a number, but it's not the ONLY thing.
- js10

I pretty much can’t agree with you all.
First, you can’t use Ovechkin as an example of how a player’s career might go for pretty much any area. It’s like saying that a goalie that can’t play as long as Brodeur is no good.
Second, you kind of cherrypicked your examples of new players, no?
Kakko’s trajectory is still high and by just about any measuring system you want to use, Adam Fox looks great to me. Regardless of what’s means he came here, having Panarin locked up for 6 more years puts him in the conversation as well.
Oh, and we seem to have brought in an all-world goaltender, too. Tune in tonight and check him out!
Failing. Wtf. You grade your score in the middle of a test?

[quote=Tonybere]
You read the comic too?
Cartoon was awesome too.
Started the Amazon series a while back and forgot about it, should revisit that.

[quote=Fenrir]

SPOON!!!!
Night of a Million-Zillion Ninja is an all-time classic!

[quote=Tonybere]

Loved the Ninja Hedge.

[quote=Fenrir]

Deflator Mouse always made me laugh.

[quote=Fenrir]




Chair Face

I pretty much can’t agree with you all.
First, you can’t use Ovechkin as an example of how a player’s career might go for pretty much any area. It’s like saying that a goalie that can’t play as long as Brodeur is no good.
Second, you kind of cherrypicked your examples of new players, no?
Kakko’s trajectory is still high and by just about any measuring system you want to use, Adam Fox looks great to me. Regardless of what’s means he came here, having Panarin locked up for 6 more years puts him in the conversation as well.
Oh, and we seem to have brought in an all-world goaltender, too. Tune in tonight and check him out!
Failing. Wtf. You grade your score in the middle of a test?
- Tonybere

Ugh, okay, one more. My first point was that 28 is not likely to be too old for a multiyear deal. If he were 38, obviously completely different story. You say I cherry pick my examples, and cite Kappo Kakko. Is it not supposed to bother me at all that exactly NONE of the players YOU use as examples were part of veteran-for-youth deals? I would therefore argue that players like Howden or Hajek (or Rykov, whatever) are much more relevant to this discussion than Kakko or Fox (also not a veteran-for-youth trade -- in fact, they had to trade a draft pick to get him). It's like you're defending veteran-for-youth trades by citing players who were not acquired in such trades.

And, yes, I think that you can see the trajectory of how something is going and make a judgment on it.

[quote=blueshirts_fan]
The original TV show, although pretty adult was good too. Whenever I see Warburton, The Tick is the only character I think of. He was perfect as the Tick.

[quote=blueshirts_fan]

Still have those figures somewhere. Obviously bought them for my daughter when the show was on.
El Seed resides in an aloe plant on our windowsill.
Stupid Monkeys

Ugh, okay, one more. My first point was that 28 is not likely to be too old for a multiyear deal. If he were 38, obviously completely different story. You say I cherry pick my examples, and cite Kappo Kakko. Is it not supposed to bother me at all that exactly NONE of the players YOU use as examples were part of veteran-for-youth deals? I would therefore argue that players like Howden or Hajek (or Rykov, whatever) are much more relevant to this discussion than Kakko or Fox (also not a veteran-for-youth trade -- in fact, they had to trade a draft pick to get him). It's like you're defending veteran-for-youth trades by citing players who were not acquired in such trades.

And, yes, I think that you can see the trajectory of how something is going and make a judgment on it.
- js10

Fox was not a trade for youth, but would your prefer not to have him? a 28 YO who has been in the NHL for like 10 years will start to wear down thems just the facts. the most I would want to see CK20 signed for is 6 years at a MAX. Not all players age like Ovi, nor do they have the talent of Sid or Malkin. lets buy young whether through trade or draft let the team develop and open the window, aging vets have never done well for us.

Pregame updates per Coach Quinn:

-Gauthier will make his #NYR debut, fourth line
-Tony D will return to the lineup, Smith scratched
-McKegg will be out
-Shesterkin will be in net https://t.co/3U3ndfA3VC

Pregame updates per Coach Quinn:

-Gauthier will make his #NYR debut, fourth line
-Tony D will return to the lineup, Smith scratched
-McKegg will be out
-Shesterkin will be in net https://t.co/3U3ndfA3VC
- airjan23

No trades yet.

Ugh, okay, one more. My first point was that 28 is not likely to be too old for a multiyear deal. If he were 38, obviously completely different story. You say I cherry pick my examples, and cite Kappo Kakko. Is it not supposed to bother me at all that exactly NONE of the players YOU use as examples were part of veteran-for-youth deals? I would therefore argue that players like Howden or Hajek (or Rykov, whatever) are much more relevant to this discussion than Kakko or Fox (also not a veteran-for-youth trade -- in fact, they had to trade a draft pick to get him). It's like you're defending veteran-for-youth trades by citing players who were not acquired in such trades.

And, yes, I think that you can see the trajectory of how something is going and make a judgment on it.
- js10

Ugh, you are so put out by this, eh? Get over yourself.
Anyway, you are totally correct that I missed a key element of the debate. I realized that after posting. Regardless, these moves are not made in isolation from each other. You build a team. You don’t just make a trade and evaluate it, then make another and so on.
You cite that we should be like Tampa and Boston who are trading FOR skilled, veteran players. They are the top teams in the league! We should just decide to be like them? Sounds pretty easy.

Fox was not a trade for youth, but would your prefer not to have him? a 28 YO who has been in the NHL for like 10 years will start to wear down thems just the facts. the most I would want to see CK20 signed for is 6 years at a MAX. Not all players age like Ovi, nor do they have the talent of Sid or Malkin. lets buy young whether through trade or draft let the team develop and open the window, aging vets have never done well for us.
- blueshirts_fan

Ugh, no, of course I am happy with having Fox. BUT THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE! I'm not saying "don't acquire young players" -- I'm saying "don't trade high-quality veteran players who are rentals and therefore won't bring back fair market value for mediocre young players."

You ask me if I rather not have Fox. I'm going to ask you much more, pertinent questions. Are you that happy with Howden? Are you that happy with Hajek? Are you that happy with Rykov? Are you that happy with Brendan Lemieux? He may be the best of that group, but I think it's hard to argue he is, or will ever be, as good as Kevin Hayes. And guess what? Kevin Hayes's team is looking good for the playoffs!

Ugh, you are so put out by this, eh? Get over yourself.
You cite that we should be like Tampa and Boston who are trading FOR skilled, veteran players. They are the top teams in the league! We should just decide to be like them? Sounds pretty easy.
- Tonybere

No, again you misread me. I am saying that if this team, as constituted, HAS to make moves like this simply to cut salary, they obviously haven't managed the cap very well, unlike those other teams I mentioned.

Ugh, no, of course I am happy with having Fox. BUT THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE! I'm not saying "don't acquire young players" -- I'm saying "don't trade high-quality veteran players who are rentals and therefore won't bring back fair market value for mediocre young players."

You ask me if I rather not have Fox. I'm going to ask you much more, pertinent questions. Are you that happy with Howden? Are you that happy with Hajek? Are you that happy with Rykov? Are you that happy with Brendan Lemieux? He may be the best of that group, but I think it's hard to argue he is, or will ever be, as good as Kevin Hayes. And guess what? Kevin Hayes's team is looking good for the playoffs!
- js10

OK so now it's bring in skilled younger players and keep older ones, how do we do that when there is a cap and a limit to who can have on the team? can we just tell Staal and Hank to stay home and pretend they don't count? if we can do that then we should!!!

OK so now it's bring in skilled younger players and keep older ones, how do we do that when there is a cap and a limit to who can have on the team? can we just tell Staal and Hank to stay home and pretend they don't count? if we can do that then we should!!!
- blueshirts_fan

Yet the best teams in the league do just that. See my comments above about bad cap management -- that's clearly part of the problem here as well.

Yet the best teams in the league do just that. See my comments above about bad cap management -- that's clearly part of the problem here as well.
- js10

You do understand we can't always be all in and need to build? we had a Window and came close a couple times, 1 time extremely close, but it didn't happen to have a new window we need to build so we go the route we are taking now and hopefully for the next few years of Panarin's contract we can be that team taking on a rental to go all in.

Just because one thing is bad doesn't meant that the opposite is good. It's failing for the reason I just stated -- despite adding Panarin and Trouba, they're haven't taken much of a step forward. As for giving it more time, if they DO improve, it will more likely be from players NOT acquired in these trades -- Kakko, Kravstov (MAYBE), and Shesterkin. Not Brett Howden (or, potentially, someone like Anders Bjork).
- js10

Fox, Tony D, and Lindgren all traded for.

Fox, Tony D, and Lindgren all traded for.
- mdw7413

Yes but we did give up on JT Miller and McDonugh, and Holden, and I guess Pionk

Yes but we did give up on JT Miller and McDonugh, and Holden, and I guess Pionk
- blueshirts_fan

We essentially got Lindgren and a 1st (Miller/Lundkvist) can't remember which one for Nash.

Tony D and a 1st for Stepan/Rantaa.

There are going to be some hits and some misses. Kind of always happens. You can't just pick the ones that right now, maybe don't look so good, imo.

@TSNBobMcKenzie just said a 1st, a prospect, an NHL player, and a conditional pick is what NYR want for Chris Kreider.

We essentially got Lindgren and a 1st (Miller/Lundkvist) can't remember which one for Nash.

Tony D and a 1st for Stepan.

There are going to be some hits and some misses. Kind of always happens. You can't just pick the ones that right now, maybe don't look so good, imo.
- mdw7413

We're on the same page the other guy is off his rocker, he is the other extreme to Brukie, where he (Brukie) thinks the rebuild is too fast his (JS) view the window should always be open.

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Search for Volokit Streams and dont miss any NHL game.

We're on the same page the other guy is off his rocker, he is the other extreme to Brukie, where he (Brukie) thinks the rebuild is too fast his (JS) view the window should always be open.
- blueshirts_fan

I put a time limit for next year when they sent out the letter. If they aren't in the playoffs next year I will be pissed. I'm fine with what they have done up to date.


Maybe its me, sorry TPC, but I just don't see Kreider as a player you throw a huge contract at. He isn't essential to the Rangers success. When he is on, he is a great player, but he also spends long periods of time disappearing. I think everyone's opinion right now is a bit high on him cause of his recent play. If he was consistent, and I don't even mean points, but effort and being noticeable, I would probably want to throw some good money at him.