Stop making sense.

The only solution is to completely capitulate with 20 games left to go while we're still in a playoff spot. It's the only way.
- gravyface

It’s either 1st place or bust.

Waste a year or this core just so we can draft an extra 18 year old we can all get excited for while he gets 40 points when he’s 22 on the Marie’s in 4 years. I can’t wait.

Crazy how much more a player gets judged after a rookie season.

Unrealistic expectations.
- Santo_44

Crappy tyson barrie
-7
33 points

Sens Tommy Chaboe
-24
33 points


tommy set to get 8mil soon

Is the D the real problem on the Leafs?

Watching last night, it seemed to me the forwards abandoned any responsibilities for their own end. Or, as someone said to me, some of those guys were such great offensive talents they have never had to learn how to take care of business in their own end.

If the Leaf brought in a top Dman, would it be any different without the forwards becoming more defensively reliable players.
- spatso

The Leafs have won games against good teams the last couple of years with a less than stellar D-corps.

I think the problem is the give a poop factor

Is the D the real problem on the Leafs?

Watching last night, it seemed to me the forwards abandoned any responsibilities for their own end. Or, as someone said to me, some of those guys were such great offensive talents they have never had to learn how to take care of business in their own end.

If the Leaf brought in a top Dman, would it be any different without the forwards becoming more defensively reliable players.
- spatso

Both things need to happen.

Odd assist?
He has the highest ppg of any leaf right now. 1.20. 60pts in 50 games and hes had an off year.
He may be overpaid a bit but hes producing at a 98pts pace over 82 games.
- Fakepartofme

well here we are crunch time and he has 3 pts in last 6 games and 0 PPP

his points have been fine, but at 11 mil there is more to the game than just points is what my point is.

this isn't the blame game, this is pointing out we need more from everyone, even the points machines.

Is the D the real problem on the Leafs?

Watching last night, it seemed to me the forwards abandoned any responsibilities for their own end. Or, as someone said to me, some of those guys were such great offensive talents they have never had to learn how to take care of business in their own end.

If the Leaf brought in a top Dman, would it be any different without the forwards becoming more defensively reliable players.
- spatso

Team defense is the issue. These kids can't stick to the plan.

well here we are crunch time and he has 3 pts in last 6 games and 0 PPP

his points have been fine, but at 11 mil there is more to the game than just points is what my point is.

this isn't the blame game, this is pointing out we need more from everyone, even the points machines.
- Lucas.Neilson

Marner is going to go through stretches where he gets 3 points in 6 games. So is every star player.

The players under him have to step it up in those situations and it just hasn’t been the case.

Kap has 1 goal in his last 20 games and it’s not from being unlucky. The guy hasn’t given a (frank).

Marner is going to go through stretches where he gets 3 points in 6 games. So is every star player.

The players under him have to step it up in those situations and it just hasn’t been the case.

Kap has 1 goal in his last 20 games and it’s not from being unlucky. The guy hasn’t given a (frank).
- Santo_44

I think Kapanen cares, he's just not a smart hockey player and never was. Speed, speed and more speed, but not great hands and doesn't really know where to go.

well here we are crunch time and he has 3 pts in last 6 games and 0 PPP

his points have been fine, but at 11 mil there is more to the game than just points is what my point is.

this isn't the blame game, this is pointing out we need more from everyone, even the points machines.
- Lucas.Neilson

Ok, agreed. We do need more from everyone in crunch time.
But even star players go through lows.

Crappy tyson barrie
-7
33 points

Sens Tommy Chaboe
-24
33 points


tommy set to get 8mil soon
- senstroll

Yeesh.

Signed him a tad too early.

Not sure why there is so much Dumba love...He has not been good for 2 years and has a 6 million contract for 4 more years

I think Kapanen cares, he's just not a smart hockey player and never was. Speed, speed and more speed, but not great hands and doesn't really know where to go.
- AdamFrench

I see games where he’s engaged and his a threat. He’s in on the forecheck(he’s one of the best on the team SOME games) he’s backchecking, he’s getting a breakaway a game.

There’s no consistent effort from him.

Not sure why there is so much Dumba love...He has not been good for 2 years and has a 6 million contract for 4 more years
- Azuredoom

I not a fan of him.
Hope the leafs do no acquire him.

But we'll see

Our top PK unit should be Hyman and Kapanen

The Marner experiment should end

Not sure why there is so much Dumba love...He has not been good for 2 years and has a 6 million contract for 4 more years
- Azuredoom

He’s had an off season this year.

So has Kap it doesn’t bring players value down.

GMs know what kind of players both are.

I dont know that.
Gotta give him time to change his strategy if need be.
- Fakepartofme

NHL is different from the minor leagues.
Can't afford a 5y timeline to evaluate a GM.
Dubas is just to green to properly manage the Leafs, and it might cost them a few chances at winning a Stanley Cup.

Not sure why there is so much Dumba love...He has not been good for 2 years and has a 6 million contract for 4 more years
- Azuredoom

Buy low

Not sure why there is so much Dumba love...He has not been good for 2 years and has a 6 million contract for 4 more years
- Azuredoom

I posted it yesterday but just for posterity... toronto trade targets are viable according to fans if they satisfy the following criteria

1. Does the player's team suck
2. Is the player a d-man
3. Does he belong in the NHL

I not a fan of him.
Hope the leafs do no acquire him.

But we'll see
- Fakepartofme

Seems like there is some divide on Dumba in here....this is going to be great when the Leafs trade for him

Just wanna do a quick reality check

1. Babcock was kind of a Richard and perhaps didn't deserve respect. If I had a boss that did some of the things that he supposedly did, I probably wouldn't want to work very hard for him either. Just sayin'

2. Kerfoot will never be part of the core of this team, not really practical

3. Most of Nylander's shots and scoring chances have come from the slot

Agreed we gotta fix the D, but there's some kind of mental issue that just prevents them from even playing for each other. Is it the constant distractions of playing in a market like Toronto? Is it conflicting personalities and there's just 0 chemistry and they don't like each other? Is Tavares actually a bad captain?
- TheMussel

Certainly the forwards share some of the blame with the defense, but the lion's share of goals are coming from poor defensive play by the actual defensemen. Yes, Kapanen, Johnsson, Kerfoot, Gauthier, Spezza, Nylander, et al make mistakes and blow the zone early or fail in coverage, but overall it's the D.

Having Holl elevated to play against top competition is not a good place. He's not there yet. He probably never will be.

At the end of the day, the Leafs have 1 D who is probably equipped to play against top competition, and that's Muzzin. He's not the fastest, but he's still probably the most competitive and best equipped to do the role. Guys like Barrie or Rielly are good puck movers, good transporters, good on the PP . . .but they are not guys who shut down top lines. Holl and Dermott are ok, but I wouldn't want to see them anywhere above the 3/4 mark, and even that pushes it depending on the level of the team you're facing. Then you get into Sandin, Liljegren, Marincin and Ceci - while Sandin and Liljegren are learning, they're still best in a 5/6 role; Ceci, if healthy, is also a 5/6 guy and Marincin is just not useful enough overall to be an NHL calibre guy.

I don't think it's a mental issue. It's a capability issue, and a style issue. Look at those names. Who is pressuring a forward? Who is separating them from the puck? Who is winning battles? You're okay with some of those names: Rielly, Muzzin, Sandin, and then the right side continues to be bare on the top pairing before you can shoehorn someone like Holl or Liljegren in the 3/4 pairings.

For a while I've been in the "I don't think one guy fixes this" camp, but maybe the right guy on the right side makes that massive difference - someone you can rely on for 25 minutes / game.

Seems like there is some divide on Dumba in here....this is going to be great when the Leafs trade for him
- Santo_44

I'm a fan

I posted it yesterday but just for posterity... toronto trade targets are viable according to fans if they satisfy the following criteria

1. Does the player's team suck
2. Is the player a d-man
3. Does he belong in the NHL
- TheMussel

This.

Not many D are actually available.

Or they are and teams haven’t traded for them the past 5 years

If one can be had and it fits a glaring weakness pull the trigger and get your guy.

Buy low
- mr.sir

already got a cheaper Barrie

...Dumba would be the next Barrie on he Leafs..who replaced Gardiner

Crappy tyson barrie
-7
33 points

Sens Tommy Chaboe
-24
33 points


tommy set to get 8mil soon
- senstroll

One is in his 3rd year on a crappy team, the other is one what many thought was a cup contender.

But agrees, 8 million is a big number.

well here we are crunch time and he has 3 pts in last 6 games and 0 PPP

his points have been fine, but at 11 mil there is more to the game than just points is what my point is.

this isn't the blame game, this is pointing out we need more from everyone, even the points machines.
- Lucas.Neilson

Odd stat; 37 goalies have started 10+ games since Jan 1 2020. Frederik Andersen is 37th amongst those goalies in save % with an .880 save %..

I think our goaler needs to be better.