He said 2 or 3. Andersen let in 5....
- bryant

Considering the Leafs only scored 2 goals (despite many PPs, a 5 on 3, lots of shots and chances), Andersen would have to have only let in 1 goal to win the game.

So again, how many were his fault?

How many goals were his fault tonight?

How can this coach talk out of both sides of his mouth and say "there's nothing he could do on those" but then say "he needs to be better"?

When the game plan is that your goalie has to stop everything, you have a bad game plan. That's on the coach and that's on the coaching staff. A good goalie makes a big save, makes a timely save and your team should be good enough to compete and win with that. The goalie shouldn't have to steal 50 games a year.
- JohnFergusonJr

If Campbell gets a run of games we'll see if it's the chicken or the egg... or both ..or mostly chicken and some egg or mostly egg and some chicken ...or ?????

At one point, Andersen was sporting a .660 sv% this evening.

Apparently, the Leafs game plan requires him to be perfect.

OR ... maybe the game plan is that the goalie makes a tough save sometimes.

Just because you may not blame the goalie for a goal, doesn't mean he played well.

Ask yourself how many saves have been made against the Leafs this year, where the goalie could hardly have been blamed if the goal went in. How many times have goalies gone post to post to rob a Leaf player of a goal?

THAT is what good NHL goalies do. When a goalie fails to make the *difficult* saves, he is a below average NHL goalie. That .880 sv% is putrid. It is Hutchinson-like... and every single person here knew we needed a change from Hutchinson.

Considering the Leafs only scored 2 goals (despite many PPs, a 5 on 3, lots of shots and chances), Andersen would have to have only let in 1 goal to win the game.

So again, how many were his fault?
- JohnFergusonJr

Still 2-3. Everyone has to take accountability. He doesn’t get let off the hook.

I guarantee Campbell will get the start Thursday.

If he doesn’t then I’m sure it wasn’t his fault tonight.

If Campbell gets a run of games we'll see if it's the chicken or the egg... or both ..or mostly chicken and some egg or mostly egg and some chicken ...or ?????
- The Law

You just put my mind in a pretzel

Past 5 years, consistently a top 10 goalie.

Same SV% as Rask the past 5 years, having played more games and facing more shots on a defensively poop team too.

Not the best but definitely consistently good enough.
- JohnFergusonJr

So you admit your comparison and rebuttal was not valid or appropriate.

You compared Matthews' performance to Andersen's

And as Wedgie points out you can add that an already thin D has been beat up with Muzzin and Rielly injuries.

If you told me last summer that Sandin and Holl would be in the top 4 I'd have started researching the draft lottery.
- The Law

It was good to see Pitts and how they, as a legit contender, can whether injuries. It really shows the lack of depth of the Leafs especially on defence.

It was good to see Pitts and how they, as a legit contender, can whether injuries. It really shows the lack of depth of the Leafs especially on defence.
- aminnes

I don't believe it is depth.

"Next man up" is a commitment to a system, and commitment to team success. It is also about heart, and work ethic.

Pittsburgh has a veteran core that knows what it takes to win. The Leafs are the polar opposite at this point.

Considering the Leafs only scored 2 goals (despite many PPs, a 5 on 3, lots of shots and chances), Andersen would have to have only let in 1 goal to win the game.

So again, how many were his fault?
- JohnFergusonJr

I've blacked out most of the night but if I recall ...

goal 1 ...tap in - wonky coverage by Holl
goal 2 ...Marincin poor coverage
goal 3 ...tap in - poor coverage by Marincin
goal 4 ...tap in - poor coverage by Holl
goal 5 - Andersen with a bad play ...

And you're right ...Matthews had some nice shifts but the other big $$ guys were invisible. JT Willie and MM - nada.

I don't believe it is depth.

"Next man up" is a commitment to a system, and commitment to team success. It is also about heart, and work ethic.

Pittsburgh has a veteran core that knows what it takes to win. The Leafs are the polar opposite at this point.
- Aetherial

True. Will is certainly a huge factor. IMO they also could use some guys with a different play style. So many ozone oriented guys. I also would like a face puncher on D. Muzzin just isn't that type of guy.

Still 2-3. Everyone has to take accountability. He doesn’t get let off the hook.

I guarantee Campbell will get the start Thursday.

If he doesn’t then I’m sure it wasn’t his fault tonight.
- bryant

Andersen deserves blame for giving up on his team after they gave up on him. But they've given up on him a lot more than he's given up on them.

Other than that one goal where he left the net, he wasn't at fault for the goals tonight. And Andersen isn't at fault for playing behind a system that plays all out offensive hockey and then can't even score on a 5 on 3 PP.

Like I said 10 times already, the Leafs play in such a way that forces Andersen to have to stand on his head. You can't play that way and then blame the goalie when it doesn't work out. He's been the team MVP for years, if anybody deserves blame, it's the idiotic way they play in front of him.

It was good to see Pitts and how they, as a legit contender, can whether injuries. It really shows the lack of depth of the Leafs especially on defence.
- aminnes

Yup.
Exactly.

I've blacked out most of the night but if I recall ...

goal 1 ...tap in - wonky coverage by Holl
goal 2 ...Marincin poor coverage
goal 3 ...tap in - poor coverage by Marincin
goal 4 ...tap in - poor coverage by Holl
goal 5 - Andersen with a bad play ...

And you're right ...Matthews had some nice shifts but the other big $$ guys were invisible. JT Willie and MM - nada.
- The Law

I asked this a couple weeks ago. Are we all ready to accept that JT doesn't make guys around him all that much better? A bit, but not as much as everyone thought?

I've blacked out most of the night but if I recall ...

goal 1 ...tap in - wonky coverage by Holl
goal 2 ...Marincin poor coverage
goal 3 ...tap in - poor coverage by Marincin
goal 4 ...tap in - poor coverage by Holl
goal 5 - Andersen with a bad play ...

And you're right ...Matthews had some nice shifts but the other big $$ guys were invisible. JT Willie and MM - nada.
- The Law

So 1 goal we can pin on Andersen after the game was already basically done and out of reach.

But the goalie, always blame the goalie. Toronto disease 101.

I've blacked out most of the night but if I recall ...

goal 1 ...tap in - wonky coverage by Holl
goal 2 ...Marincin poor coverage
goal 3 ...tap in - poor coverage by Marincin
goal 4 ...tap in - poor coverage by Holl
goal 5 - Andersen with a bad play ...

And you're right ...Matthews had some nice shifts but the other big $$ guys were invisible. JT Willie and MM - nada.
- The Law

Yup.
Although jt looked decent.

I've blacked out most of the night but if I recall ...

goal 1 ...tap in - wonky coverage by Holl
goal 2 ...Marincin poor coverage
goal 3 ...tap in - poor coverage by Marincin
goal 4 ...tap in - poor coverage by Holl
goal 5 - Andersen with a bad play ...

And you're right ...Matthews had some nice shifts but the other big $$ guys were invisible. JT Willie and MM - nada.
- The Law

All the goals you nailed. Andersen did a bit of swimming tonight tho. And 5th goal was directly on him.

As far as guys that played well for leafs tonight it’s a very short list.

It goes
1....
2....
3...

I don’t think there was one good player for the leafs.

Maybe spezza?

Just got in from Curling and watched the lowlights.



Looks like Freddie was crawling around out there like Eddie on a Friday.


It’s not good eh

True. Will is certainly a huge factor. IMO they also could use some guys with a different play style. So many ozone oriented guys. I also would like a face puncher on D. Muzzin just isn't that type of guy.
- aminnes

I wanted to believe that this make up could bring us back to the run and gun Oilers years.

I think it is time to admit that approach is not going to work. They need some pushback, especially on defense.

I asked this a couple weeks ago. Are we all ready to accept that JT doesn't make guys around him all that much better? A bit, but not as much as everyone thought?
- aminnes

Yes and no. Give him Engvall, Mikheyev; guys with some natural skills and you'll see Tavares elevate them. Give him poop bags like Kerfoot and well, good luck.

Also, Tavares use to be a cycle machine in Long Island. But the Leafs don't play that way at all. They need to get him some linemates that can dig in the corners and get back to that cycle game. That's why Hyman always works well with Tavares.

Andersen deserves blame for giving up on his team after they gave up on him. But they've given up on him a lot more than he's given up on them.

Other than that one goal where he left the net, he wasn't at fault for the goals tonight. And Andersen isn't at fault for playing behind a system that plays all out offensive hockey and then can't even score on a 5 on 3 PP.

Like I said 10 times already, the Leafs play in such a way that forces Andersen to have to stand on his head. You can't play that way and then blame the goalie when it doesn't work out. He's been the team MVP for years, if anybody deserves blame, it's the idiotic way they play in front of him.
- JohnFergusonJr

Who starts Thursday for leafs then?

If it’s Campbell that means Andersen hasn’t been good.

If it’s Andersen it means the leafs haven’t been good.

I stand by my Campbell starts statement.

All the goals you nailed. Andersen did a bit of swimming tonight tho. And 5th goal was directly on him.

As far as guys that played well for leafs tonight it’s a very short list.

It goes
1....
2....
3...

I don’t think there was one good player for the leafs.

Maybe spezza?
- bryant

Ya, Spezza was fine. I thought Matthews was pretty good. He was throwing his body around for a change - I've noticed he's been using his body more since the Clifford trade. For me the trouble spots were Holl, Marincin and Sandin ...and the lack of finish from the big guys. And that was my same complaint after the Sabres game.

Considering the Leafs only scored 2 goals (despite many PPs, a 5 on 3, lots of shots and chances), Andersen would have to have only let in 1 goal to win the game.

So again, how many were his fault?
- JohnFergusonJr

I didn’t see the game but I just finished watching the highlights. No goalie could have stopped 4 of those goals. Cross crease point blank.

His fault on the giveaway but that happens.

Who starts Thursday for leafs then?

If it’s Campbell that means Andersen hasn’t been good.

If it’s Andersen it means the leafs haven’t been good.

I stand by my Campbell starts statement.
- bryant

It's going to be whoever Keefe picks but it doesn't mean it will be right.

It's not a back to back, it's against a top team and Andersen is the #1 goalie. Unless he's hurt, it should be Andersen.

Campbell has done well for the Leafs against weaker opponents but Andersen is the guy. Just play better in front of him.

When the Leafs play a perfect game and lose because of Andersen, then we can talk. But that rarely happens. He steals a lot more games than he costs them.

I've blacked out most of the night but if I recall ...

goal 1 ...tap in - wonky coverage by Holl
goal 2 ...Marincin poor coverage
goal 3 ...tap in - poor coverage by Marincin
goal 4 ...tap in - poor coverage by Holl
goal 5 - Andersen with a bad play ... marner with a completely selfish play staying on the pp too long. Ducking beer league

And you're right ...Matthews had some nice shifts but the other big $$ guys were invisible. JT Willie and MM - nada.
- The Law

Fixed.

But freddy still needed to come up with 2 more saves. Gotta keep it to 3.

At one point, Andersen was sporting a .660 sv% this evening.

Apparently, the Leafs game plan requires him to be perfect.

OR ... maybe the game plan is that the goalie makes a tough save sometimes.

Just because you may not blame the goalie for a goal, doesn't mean he played well.

Ask yourself how many saves have been made against the Leafs this year, where the goalie could hardly have been blamed if the goal went in. How many times have goalies gone post to post to rob a Leaf player of a goal?

THAT is what good NHL goalies do. When a goalie fails to make the *difficult* saves, he is a below average NHL goalie. That .880 sv% is putrid. It is Hutchinson-like... and every single person here knew we needed a change from Hutchinson.
- Aetherial

Might want to watch the 1st 4 goals again


*punches nuts again*