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Forums :: Blog World :: Tyler Cameron: The trip that broke the camel's back
Author Message
Return of the Roar
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Solidly grounded in reality, IL
Joined: 07.27.2009

Feb 14 @ 1:19 PM ET
Lol. 4 Hall of Famers. Any GM could replace them!

#tempertantrum

- mohel


Taken out of context.

It is more about five consecutive years of poor player scouting and development. The current front office team owns that. Frankly...they don't even have one of those vets' replacements in the system.

Secondarily it is about a lack of vision about what kind of team they need to be to contend again, and finding the pieces to put it together. First it was let's fill in around the edges and try to play the same game. Failed. Then it became change the game to pokecheckapalooza with a bunch of fourth liners and AHLers with a new coach with no NHL experience. That has failed.

Why are they where they are? Wrong vision, poor contracts and picks. While it might be easy to hoist the red herring of "OK who then?", the issue is far more about "OK, why keep them?"

When your front office leader knows nothing about the sport, there can be no faith in the future. The pot of gold at the end of the McD/SB rainbow is empty and they don't know how to find the next rainbow, let alone pot of gold.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Feb 14 @ 1:21 PM ET
I mean, Teuvo Teravainen has 91 points in the 90 games since he signed his 5 year extension at only $5.4 million per....

Okay okay I'll shut up.

- BINGO!


Yeah, but how much does he squat?
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Feb 14 @ 1:25 PM ET
OOOOOO, Bogosian on waivers! Go get him Stan!!!
squishy24
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.08.2019

Feb 14 @ 1:26 PM ET
Honestly though, what does everyone's expectation of this team for next year? Same with this year? Get in the play-offs? Win the cup?

second - is your answer to the above achievable with the current players/coaches/management?
Return of the Roar
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Solidly grounded in reality, IL
Joined: 07.27.2009

Feb 14 @ 1:26 PM ET
This is how the Hawk front office should handle things:

2/8/2018

As a member of the Blueshirt Faithful, we consider you a part of the New York Rangers family, and always want to ensure we share important news about the organization directly with you. Today, we want to talk to you about the future.

As you know, since the 2005-06 season, we have been a highly competitive team. We have played 129 playoff games, won the Presidents' Trophy, reached the Conference Finals three times, as well as the Stanley Cup Final. While we're proud of all those accomplishments - we didn't reach our ultimate goal of bringing the Stanley Cup back to New York.

So as we do every season, we have been continuously evaluating our team, looking for areas that can be improved to enhance our chances of winning. We began the process of reshaping our team this past summer, when we traded for assets that we believe will help us in the years to come. As we approach the trade deadline later this month and into the summer, we will be focused on adding young, competitive players that combine speed, skill and character. This may mean we lose some familiar faces, guys we all care about and respect. While this is part of the game, it's never easy. Our promise to you is that our plans will be guided by our singular commitment: ensuring we are building the foundation for our next Stanley Cup contender.

There are no fans like Rangers fans. You are passionate, loyal and true. You fill The Garden every night, and we always know there will be a strong showing from RangersTown in every building across the League. We do not take your support for granted. We appreciate that you have always stood by us, and we ask you to remain by our side as we undertake this exciting new chapter filled with promise and change.

We will keep you informed as this process takes shape. Thank you for the incredible loyalty, pride and respect you show to the New York Rangers, each and every day.

100% class, honesty, and transparency.
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Feb 14 @ 1:26 PM ET
Ask yourself this question to get the answer:

Are there 2.0 versions of Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa, Crawford etc in the pipeline today?

Mic drop.

- Return of the Roar

Are there any versions of that many core stars on any teams roster?

You're talking about 4 HOFers and a bunch of all-stars.
rpeters01
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 07.09.2016

Feb 14 @ 1:27 PM ET
No one believes the Hawks would remain at the top of the league in perpetuity. That's idiotic.

But how dare anyone believe another GM could have made different moves with better results while Toews, Kane, Keith, and Crawford are still playing prime hockey.

Give me a break.

- Toew Drags 4 Daze

Some moves would have been better, some worse I doubt it could have been any better than even out without a crystal ball.
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Feb 14 @ 1:28 PM ET
There are no good coaches.
- mohel

There are good coaches on both sides....
Toew Drags 4 Daze
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Charlotte, NC
Joined: 06.19.2017

Feb 14 @ 1:28 PM ET
Lol. You've given enough for me to know your opinion is as meaningful as JJ's.
- mohel


Baby boy I've given you stats, facts and reasoning behind all my arguments. What have you provided other than your corny little #tempertantrum hashtags.

Seems like all you do on here is ridicule people for their thoughts without offering any counter arguments with actual useful information.
Return of the Roar
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Solidly grounded in reality, IL
Joined: 07.27.2009

Feb 14 @ 1:31 PM ET
This is how the Hawk front office should handle things:

2/8/2018

As a member of the Blueshirt Faithful, we consider you a part of the New York Rangers family, and always want to ensure we share important news about the organization directly with you. Today, we want to talk to you about the future.

As you know, since the 2005-06 season, we have been a highly competitive team. We have played 129 playoff games, won the Presidents' Trophy, reached the Conference Finals three times, as well as the Stanley Cup Final. While we're proud of all those accomplishments - we didn't reach our ultimate goal of bringing the Stanley Cup back to New York.

So as we do every season, we have been continuously evaluating our team, looking for areas that can be improved to enhance our chances of winning. We began the process of reshaping our team this past summer, when we traded for assets that we believe will help us in the years to come. As we approach the trade deadline later this month and into the summer, we will be focused on adding young, competitive players that combine speed, skill and character. This may mean we lose some familiar faces, guys we all care about and respect. While this is part of the game, it's never easy. Our promise to you is that our plans will be guided by our singular commitment: ensuring we are building the foundation for our next Stanley Cup contender.

There are no fans like Rangers fans. You are passionate, loyal and true. You fill The Garden every night, and we always know there will be a strong showing from RangersTown in every building across the League. We do not take your support for granted. We appreciate that you have always stood by us, and we ask you to remain by our side as we undertake this exciting new chapter filled with promise and change.

We will keep you informed as this process takes shape. Thank you for the incredible loyalty, pride and respect you show to the New York Rangers, each and every day.

100% class, honesty, and transparency.

- Return of the Roar
A clear description that the goal isn't just to make the playoffs, but rather to rebuild to a cup contending team again.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Feb 14 @ 1:35 PM ET
This is how the Hawk front office should handle things:

2/8/2018

As a member of the Blueshirt Faithful, we consider you a part of the New York Rangers family, and always want to ensure we share important news about the organization directly with you. Today, we want to talk to you about the future.

As you know, since the 2005-06 season, we have been a highly competitive team. We have played 129 playoff games, won the Presidents' Trophy, reached the Conference Finals three times, as well as the Stanley Cup Final. While we're proud of all those accomplishments - we didn't reach our ultimate goal of bringing the Stanley Cup back to New York.

So as we do every season, we have been continuously evaluating our team, looking for areas that can be improved to enhance our chances of winning. We began the process of reshaping our team this past summer, when we traded for assets that we believe will help us in the years to come. As we approach the trade deadline later this month and into the summer, we will be focused on adding young, competitive players that combine speed, skill and character. This may mean we lose some familiar faces, guys we all care about and respect. While this is part of the game, it's never easy. Our promise to you is that our plans will be guided by our singular commitment: ensuring we are building the foundation for our next Stanley Cup contender.

There are no fans like Rangers fans. You are passionate, loyal and true. You fill The Garden every night, and we always know there will be a strong showing from RangersTown in every building across the League. We do not take your support for granted. We appreciate that you have always stood by us, and we ask you to remain by our side as we undertake this exciting new chapter filled with promise and change.

We will keep you informed as this process takes shape. Thank you for the incredible loyalty, pride and respect you show to the New York Rangers, each and every day.

100% class, honesty, and transparency.

- Return of the Roar


Let's say that they did put out a letter like this. How does that help the Hawks get back to the top? Whether they say it explicitly, or fans figure it out for themselves, it doesn't really matter.

If the Hawks get the big four to agree to waive and trade them all (or even one or two), do you really think the fanbase is going to think "hey, they are really going for it this year". I think everyone would be much better off if they did not take seriously ANYTHING that Bowman or the team says publicly. It is by definition marketing spin.

Stan has turned over a huge portion of this roster in the past few years. He is trying to rebuild the team, but as has been pounded into submission here, there are some theoretically immovable contracts. Ultimately, he will be judged by how well and how fast he gets the team back to contention.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Feb 14 @ 1:37 PM ET
Taken out of context.

It is more about five consecutive years of poor player scouting and development. The current front office team owns that. Frankly...they don't even have one of those vets' replacements in the system.

Secondarily it is about a lack of vision about what kind of team they need to be to contend again, and finding the pieces to put it together. First it was let's fill in around the edges and try to play the same game. Failed. Then it became change the game to pokecheckapalooza with a bunch of fourth liners and AHLers with a new coach with no NHL experience. That has failed.

Why are they where they are? Wrong vision, poor contracts and picks. While it might be easy to hoist the red herring of "OK who then?", the issue is far more about "OK, why keep them?"

When your front office leader knows nothing about the sport, there can be no faith in the future. The pot of gold at the end of the McD/SB rainbow is empty and they don't know how to find the next rainbow, let alone pot of gold.

- Return of the Roar


Out of context? You dropped the mic complaining about no replacements for HOF players in the middle of a discussion about the GM.
Angotti
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2019

Feb 14 @ 1:39 PM ET
I personally don't have any issue with the cap number. I just thought the contract was easily four years too long. I fully agree with the bolded, but it is simply a bad idea to extend a guy at that number until he is 38/39.
- Chunk

I don’t disagree with your statement on term, but I wasn’t in the room during the negotiations either, maybe it was that term of no contract, and like I mentioned earlier, we did not have any other defenseman that brought Seabrook’s attributes.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Feb 14 @ 1:42 PM ET
Baby boy I've given you stats, facts and reasoning behind all my arguments. What have you provided other than your corny little #tempertantrum hashtags.

Seems like all you do on here is ridicule people for their thoughts without offering any counter arguments with actual useful information.

- Toew Drags 4 Daze


To borrow a JJ phrase....."project much"?

None of those facts and figures compare Stan to other similarly situated GM's.
Return of the Roar
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Solidly grounded in reality, IL
Joined: 07.27.2009

Feb 14 @ 1:43 PM ET
Let's say that they did put out a letter like this. How does that help the Hawks get back to the top? Whether they say it explicitly, or fans figure it out for themselves, it doesn't really matter.

.

- Chunk


This is where you are wrong. It absolutely matters. It's about integrity.

It is an admission that changes bigger than have been attempted are required, and replaces the need to market around a crap product on the ice by pretending they are better then they are for fear of losing revenue.

I for one, a fan since 1969 who hasn't gone to a game in over four years unless the odd free tickets came my way, would actually see reason to support the team again if they were honest with me, and set believable expectations built around a thoughtful plan for legitimate contention.
Return of the Roar
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Solidly grounded in reality, IL
Joined: 07.27.2009

Feb 14 @ 1:44 PM ET
Out of context? You dropped the mic complaining about no replacements for HOF players in the middle of a discussion about the GM.
- mohel


The hashtag thing. I'm not angry at all. In fact, I laugh a lot more about the state of things more than anything else.
Toew Drags 4 Daze
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Charlotte, NC
Joined: 06.19.2017

Feb 14 @ 1:47 PM ET
To borrow a JJ phrase....."project much"?

None of those facts and figures compare Stan to other similarly situated GM's.

- mohel


You must not be aware of what projecting is then lol. I'm not the one on here being a penis to everyone.

And okay I'll play your little game. How about you dig in to those figures and present me with a calculated explanation on why he should keep his job. Let's do that. "I'll wait"
SteveRain
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Connor Murphy Sucks, IL
Joined: 05.07.2010

Feb 14 @ 2:00 PM ET
Baby boy I've given you stats, facts and reasoning behind all my arguments. What have you provided other than your corny little #tempertantrum hashtags.

Seems like all you do on here is ridicule people for their thoughts without offering any counter arguments with actual useful information.

- Toew Drags 4 Daze



Welcome to the party. When it doesn’t fit the narrative you don’t get a response or just deflection.

Site is all opinion. As it should be. Nobody is right or wrong.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Feb 14 @ 2:03 PM ET
This is where you are wrong. It absolutely matters. It's about integrity.

It is an admission that changes bigger than have been attempted are required, and replaces the need to market around a crap product on the ice by pretending they are better then they are for fear of losing revenue.

I for one, a fan since 1969 who hasn't gone to a game in over four years unless the odd free tickets came my way, would actually see reason to support the team again if they were honest with me, and set believable expectations built around a thoughtful plan for legitimate contention.

- Return of the Roar


It is certainly your right to be upset about your perception of lack of integrity. It's also the right of others not to be mad that they don't admit they are rebuilding. I understand why they chose to stay silent.

What the previous poster pointed out is that the rebuild will not go faster or better either way.
-Doh-
Location: VA
Joined: 10.05.2015

Feb 14 @ 2:05 PM ET
There are no good coaches.
- mohel


Or GM's
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Feb 14 @ 2:07 PM ET
You must not be aware of what projecting is then lol. I'm not the one on here being a penis to everyone.

And okay I'll play your little game. How about you dig in to those figures and present me with a calculated explanation on why he should keep his job. Let's do that. "I'll wait"

- Toew Drags 4 Daze


Let's not. He has the job. You want him fired, but have no idea how he compares to other GM's. I'd fire him tomorrow if there's a better candidate available. I don't see one, and so far you don't either.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Feb 14 @ 2:08 PM ET
Or GM's
- -Doh-


Well, it seems there's a ton better than Stan!
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Feb 14 @ 2:12 PM ET
Welcome to the party. When it doesn’t fit the narrative you don’t get a response or just deflection.

Site is all opinion. As it should be. Nobody is right or wrong.

- SteveRain


When one disagrees with someone's opinion, isn't that saying you think the other person is wrong?

If I say Hossa was waaaay overrated, you'd rightfully tell me I've suffered a head injury or something. Wouldn't that be telling me I'm wrong?
pdx2ord
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Portland, OR
Joined: 09.02.2015

Feb 14 @ 2:20 PM ET
The Athletic is looking for contributions to the "what is your favorite Chicago Stadium memory?" story here in the comments section here:

https://theathletic.com/1...o-stadium-michael-jordan/

Focused on basketball, primarily, because the All Star game is in town, but I know some of you revere that place.
EbonyRaptor
Joined: 03.28.2013

Feb 14 @ 2:22 PM ET
This might be one of those crossroads moments when an opportunity presents itself and the response is as illustrative of the decision makers as it is about the decision itself. Stan's handling of the pre-TDL trade season will separate the wheat from the chafe.

The most obvious trade chip is Gustafsson. Regardless of his brain-fart moments in the d-zone - he is a legit second-pairing d-man by the minutes he can play without physically slowing down, by playing QB on the PP, by having good offensive capabilities and instincts in the o-zone and does score goals. If predictability is a good thing - he is predictable with the occasional bone head play and the occasional brilliant play. In between he's not as bad as advertised defensively. The point is he is what he is but he's certainly worth 1/2 his salary when Stan retains 50% of his $1.2M salary cap hit . And, he's UFA so he's the perfect TDL pickup for a team in the hunt who wouldn't mind adding a depth d-man like Gustafsson to the lineup for a paltry pro-rated $600K cap hit. He would at least be a pretty good cheap #7 depth d-man heading into the playoffs. Get it done Stan. I don't even care a whole lot what he gets in return - just get it done.

One more thing - I'll ask the question - is Gustafsson a vital piece of the plan moving forward - an asset that should be re-signed rather than traded? I'll answer the question - NO! If Stan makes the mistake of thinking differently - thinking that Gustafsson is one of the pieces in the master plan - then he better re-sign him and be consistent in his madness because if Gustafsson just strolls into the sunset after the season ends - Stan better be going out with him.

This pre-TDL trading season will tell us as much about Stan the GM and his capability to get the Hawks back into legitimate contending status than anything else that comes to mind. Hopefully Stan's choices and results, at the very least, get's him a stay of execution. If not - don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
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