WRONG

we DID have replacements for Sharp and Hossa (Panarin and Teravainen)

But our idiot GM traded them away

But I’m sure someone will make up another excuse for those mistakes as well.

Here we sit with one of the weakest rosters in the entire league and fans STILL want to defend our GM. It’s insane.
- SimpleJack

Honestly I get why they do. What we've had in the last 10 years is remarkable. There are some valid points for sure. Winning comes at a price. But I don't believe the decline should have happened this fast. I think the state the team is in right now was completely avoidable.

I don't even deny that a change should/would improve things, but it is going to take a decent amount of time before the Hawks are a legitimate team again. There are simply too many holes to fill. JC is not the long term solution as coach, but I believe that he is good for what they are trying to accomplish right now. Bringing along a ton of young guys to learn how to play the right way. No, the results are not what we want, but there is progress being made.

Dach, Boqvist, Highmore, Gilbert (to a lesser extent), Kubalik have all come in and shown notable stride on D - one of the biggest issues for young players.

There are no quick fixes for this team unless all four of the big contracts agrees to waive and they can start from scratch - and even then, it would likely take time to build chemistry.
- Chunk

Buffalo and Edmonton have been drafting high for at least a decade and just starting to sniff the playoffs and Edmonton is in cap hell.

Honestly I get why they do. What we've had in the last 10 years is remarkable. There are some valid points for sure. Winning comes at a price. But I don't believe the decline should have happened this fast. I think the state the team is in right now was completely avoidable.
- Toew Drags 4 Daze

Huh? Hossa, Sharp, Seebs, Keith, Crow, Kane and Toews over 30, waiting for the avoidable here?

Yes I believe he is bad at drafting, just take a glance at the last 9 years of this list...

www.hockey-reference.com/teams/chi/draft.html

These points aren't mutually exclusive though. He can be bad at drafting and still have some good draft picks. My point is simply that he rarely drafts players capable of making an impact and cracking the top 6 which is desperately needed, and the ones he has, he's traded away for bad returns.

If he was getting good players in return I wouldn't have a problem with it, but he doesnt.
- Toew Drags 4 Daze

I've wondered for a long time whether it's quality of the pick or quality of the development they get from the team's AHL affiliate that is the biggest issue. Most of our best draftees and prospects have developed elsewhere (WHL, NCAA, etc.) if I'm not mistaken.

How Rockford is performing is also under Stan's purview, though. Just wondering in the chicken-and-egg which issue really is the crux of the problem.

WRONG

we DID have replacements for Sharp and Hossa (Panarin and Teravainen)

But our idiot GM traded them away

But I’m sure someone will make up another excuse for those mistakes as well.

Here we sit with one of the weakest rosters in the entire league and fans STILL want to defend our GM. It’s insane.
- SimpleJack

Panarin would of walked away as a free agent because we couldn't afford him paying for players that had won 3 cups before Panarin was even a thought of being a Blackhawk. Also remember, Panarin could of signed with anyone as a free agent. TT, Stan liked him more than Quenville did. I am sure that had something to do with trading him.

https://sportsmockery.com...-rid-of-teuvo-teravainen/

And a failure to the medical staff for not recognizing Bickell's MS diagnosis a) before he signed his contract or b) Before Stan had to trade him for a salary dump.

Unfrotunately these issues (especially hindsight) are not considered in Stratomatic, or fantasy hockey leagues.

WRONG

we DID have replacements for Sharp and Hossa (Panarin and Teravainen)

But our idiot GM traded them away

But I’m sure someone will make up another excuse for those mistakes as well.

Here we sit with one of the weakest rosters in the entire league and fans STILL want to defend our GM. It’s insane.
- SimpleJack

Woof Panarin for Saad........and I don't want to hear about how Panarin doesn't show up for the playoffs. He's all but a ppg playoff performer.

Traded 1st line talent for 2nd line talent. Quick run down:

Including Stephen Johns in the Sharp trade was horrible.

TT with Bickell was horrible.

Panarin for Saad was horrible.

Danualt for peanuts was horrible.

Seabrook contract was horrible.

That is a lot of talent (and cap space) in which the only thing the Hawks have to show for it is Saad.

I've wondered for a long time whether it's quality of the pick or quality of the development they get from the team's AHL affiliate that is the biggest issue. Most of our best draftees and prospects have developed elsewhere (WHL, NCAA, etc.) if I'm not mistaken.

How Rockford is performing is also under Stan's purview, though. Just wondering in the chicken-and-egg which issue really is the crux of the problem.
- pdx2ord

Agreed. I'd be curious about that as well...

VERY rare that a goaltender is taken with a top 10 pick, in the first round. Spencer Knight was picked #13 last year by Tallon. Don't know anything about Askarov? How does he compare to Knight?
- LAHawk

Well, recent mocks that I have been viewing has goalie Askarov in the #7 - #10 range. Yes that is extremely high, but a lot of scouts are saying he is the best since Carey Price at his age.

Panarin would of walked away as a free agent because we couldn't afford him paying for players that had won 3 cups before Panarin was even a thought of being a Blackhawk. Also remember, Panarin could of signed with anyone as a free agent. TT, Stan liked him more than Quenville did. I am sure that had something to do with trading him.

https://sportsmockery.com...-rid-of-teuvo-teravainen/

And a failure to the medical staff for not recognizing Bickell's MS diagnosis a) before he signed his contract or b) Before Stan had to trade him for a salary dump.

Unfrotunately these issues (especially hindsight) are not considered in Stratomatic, or fantasy hockey leagues.
- LAHawk

How can you talk about hingsight and then just conclude Panarin would have walked away in free agency? The fact is Bowman signed off on some very bad trades. I think you can add Joki for Nylander to that list now too.

A chunk of Seabs money and Saad's salary (or even Dcat) could have been used to sign Panarin if Bowman decided to go that route. He didn't. Panarin is top 5 in scoring right now and would be the biggest offense threat on the Hawks by a mile (not named Kane).

The Panarin trade was god awful. There is no way to justify it. If you are giving up the most talented player in a trade you are almost always going to lose that trade.

What if he goes all in and does not win? Will he still be genius in a year or two if his cap situation is bad, he has no low draft picks and his prospect pool is lean.

It is hard to judge who gets the credit for success or failure. Owner, GM, Coach, Core...

I have a longer term view. I happen to believe Stan can turn this around. It might be in 2023/24 when Toews and Kane are still good players but after their current contract. By that time our young D should be very good, Seabs is bought out the cap increases, and we have cap space to add.

We can fire Stan. But whoever comes in, even if they are super, probably cannot get it done before 23/24 anyway.
- -Doh-

What if he goes all in and does not win? Will he still be genius in a year or two if his cap situation is bad, he has no low draft picks and his prospect pool is lean.

It is hard to judge who gets the credit for success or failure. Owner, GM, Coach, Core...

I have a longer term view. I happen to believe Stan can turn this around. It might be in 2023/24 when Toews and Kane are still good players but after their current contract. By that time our young D should be very good, Seabs is bought out the cap increases, and we have cap space to add.

We can fire Stan. But whoever comes in, even if they are super, probably cannot get it done before 23/24 anyway.
- -Doh-

I actually forgot to add, I like the 2016 version too. I mean the gamble on Ladd and trading out Danault. I never had a problem with the TDL deals.

it all comes down to the "beliefs" then. Cant really argue with what you believe in, but hopefully you are correct.

If he goes all in this season, lets say trade a 1st rounder AND a 2nd rounder AND Mitchell AND whoever else is a hot prospect for lets say wings that will help Toews (Palmieri AND Coleman maybe?), or a center with Kane, or a top 2 D. I wouldn't blame or put fault on SB

Huh? Hossa, Sharp, Seebs, Keith, Crow, Kane and Toews over 30, waiting for the avoidable here?
- rpeters01

Keith Crow Kane and Toews aren't the problem this year and haven't been the problem the last 3 years.

Hossa was a big loss and I don't know who they could have gotten to fill that one.

Sharp was traded with Stephen John's to aquire Trevor Daley and Ryan Fu***ing Garbutt.

Has there been a GM in any sport that has not made mistakes? Only one I could think of is Abe Saperstein
- LAHawk

Depends. Are we talking in realistic terms or hyperbole?

How can you talk about hingsight and then just conclude Panarin would have walked away in free agency? The fact is Bowman signed off on some very bad trades. I think you can add Joki for Nylander to that list now too.

A chunk of Seabs money and Saad's salary (or even Dcat) could have been used to sign Panarin if Bowman decided to go that route. He didn't. Panarin is top 5 in scoring right now and would be the biggest offense threat on the Hawks by a mile (not named Kane).

The Panarin trade was god awful. There is no way to justify it. If you are giving up the most talented player in a trade you are almost always going to lose that trade.
- bhawks2241

No way they could keep the Bread man with the salary cap issues and field a competitive team.

The Seabrook contract was horrible now in hindsight but didn't hear too much female dogging back when it was signed.

You can never replace Hossa. He was the key to the cups more so than anyone else.

Good thing this board isn't in charge of the Nuclear Clock or we would all be out digging bomb shelters today.

You're right about Olsen. My bad. But you're still proving my point...

- McNeil bust.

- TT is great. Too bad Bowman gave Bickell Teuvos money.

- Philip Danault is a good player as well. Not sure I agree with you he's top 6 (one season over 40 points and never scored more than 13 goals) but still a good player that the Hawks could use. He was traded for Dale Weise and Tomas Fleischmann. That worked out swell.

- Hartman is fine as a 3rd/4th line player. Probably still better than anyone on the 4th line currently.

- Jokiharju like you said, is trending towards being a top 4 D... And Bowman trades him for... Alex Nylander?

If you want to take the stance that Bowman is a good drafter you go right ahead. You can do the research yourself on that and see how many of the players he's drafted that have amounted to anything. Maybe it's similar to other GMs. But it's still a problem that the few guys he drafts that DO pan out, he trades away, usually for bad players that don't work out because he's binded himself with bad contracts.
- Toew Drags 4 Daze

Trading them after they slumped is valid. My comment was they are playing Top 6 on their teams. Danault definitely is playing top 6 for Montreal

So you provide no context to compare Bowman to his peers but just decide his drafting is bad?

Keith Crow Kane and Toews aren't the problem this year and haven't been the problem the last 3 years.

Hossa was a big loss and I don't know who they could have gotten to fill that one.

Sharp was traded with Stephen John's to aquire Trevor Daley and Ryan Fu***ing Garbutt.
- Toew Drags 4 Daze

Sharp was a cap casualty plain and simple everyone knew it was coming and Stan didn't screw him by sending him to the highest bidder.

Woof Panarin for Saad........and I don't want to hear about how Panarin doesn't show up for the playoffs. He's all but a ppg playoff performer.

Traded 1st line talent for 2nd line talent. Quick run down:

Including Stephen Johns in the Sharp trade was horrible.

TT with Bickell was horrible.

Panarin for Saad was horrible.

Danualt for peanuts was horrible.

Seabrook contract was horrible.

That is a lot of talent (and cap space) in which the only thing the Hawks have to show for it is Saad.
- bhawks2241

And remember when the Hawks traded Saad to Columbus for Anisimov.... Then traded Panarin to get Saad back... Pure brilliance.

This is the type of sh*t I'm talking about. Why in the hell would you want Bowman making any more trades.

Trading them after they slumped is valid. My comment was they are playing Top 6 on their teams. Danault definitely is playing top 6 for Montreal

So you provide no context to compare Bowman to his peers but just decide his drafting is bad?
- Elbows15

I don't think you need to see what other GMs have done in order to decide what kind of job Stan has done. I'm sure he's done better than some. But I don't think the state of the team is acceptable, and it's his team. This is his creation.

But if you want me to make a post digging into those numbers and compare Bowman to them. Happy to do so lol.

WRONG

we DID have replacements for Sharp and Hossa (Panarin and Teravainen)

But our idiot GM traded them away

But I’m sure someone will make up another excuse for those mistakes as well.

Here we sit with one of the weakest rosters in the entire league and fans STILL want to defend our GM. It’s insane.
- SimpleJack

Am I reading this correcrly, TT replaces Hossa? Mr. Alligator arms? OK, stop smoking the weed.

I don't think you need to see what other GMs have done in order to decide what kind of job Stan has done. I'm sure he's done better than some. But I don't think the state of the team is acceptable, and it's his team. This is his creation.

But if you want me to make a post digging into those numbers and compare Bowman to them. Happy to do so lol.
- Toew Drags 4 Daze

Look at all the other SA teams and teams that have always been SA while you are doing it.

What did Strome learn by sitting out the previous game?
And he is due a big raise. Good luck with that!
- 67hawks

He was injured still so I think that was a part of it...

I don't think you need to see what other GMs have done in order to decide what kind of job Stan has done. I'm sure he's done better than some. But I don't think the state of the team is acceptable, and it's his team. This is his creation.

But if you want me to make a post digging into those numbers and compare Bowman to them. Happy to do so lol.
- Toew Drags 4 Daze

You only need to compare his record to those drafting in the bottom half of the 1st round. Does what kind of job include winning 3 Cups in 6 years? 6 trips to the Conference Final in 10 years?

The state of the team was and is inevitable. Or do you not realize how special it was to have players like Keith, Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Sharp, Crow and Hossa on the same team and in their primes? Well, aside from Hossa. Hossa's prime was past but he was still a really (frank)ing good player.

How can you talk about hingsight and then just conclude Panarin would have walked away in free agency? The fact is Bowman signed off on some very bad trades. I think you can add Joki for Nylander to that list now too.

A chunk of Seabs money and Saad's salary (or even Dcat) could have been used to sign Panarin if Bowman decided to go that route. He didn't. Panarin is top 5 in scoring right now and would be the biggest offense threat on the Hawks by a mile (not named Kane).

The Panarin trade was god awful. There is no way to justify it. If you are giving up the most talented player in a trade you are almost always going to lose that trade.
- bhawks2241

Seabs was a bad signing, we ALL agree. That contract was signed before Panarin even suited up for the Blackhawks, so even if you negate Panarin for Saad, you had traded Seabs for someone on defense that makes around $2 mil. because that is about what you could afford, and trade ADB as an RFA cause we could not even afford him at $3 mil, you are telling me that keeping Panarin at all costs makes the Hawks Stanley Cup contenders?

Lets not also forget at the time of the trade we still had Marian Hossa. We should of traded him too at the time? Lets say Panarin was nice and signed for the hawks for $9 mil. (highly doubt it), so you would have

Panarin $9 mil.
Toews $10.5mil.
Kane $10.5 mil.
Hossa $5 mil.
Crow $6 mil.
Keith $5.5 mikl.

Thats $46.5 mil for 6 players

you get $34.5 mil. to fill out 16 more player.

I as an armchair stratomatic GM cannot come up with a playoff team, let alone a Stanley Cup contender, whats the rest of your roster?

You only need to compare his record to those drafting in the bottom half of the 1st round. Does what kind of job include winning 3 Cups in 6 years? 6 trips to the Conference Final in 10 years?

The state of the team was and is inevitable. Or do you not realize how special it was to have players like Keith, Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Sharp, Crow and Hossa on the same team and in their primes? Well, aside from Hossa. Hossa's prime was past but he was still a really (frank)ing good player.
- Elbows15

inevitable, but not unexpected. not a good argument really. that's like saying "I'm going to hit that post if I continue this path" and the solution is to slow down, instead of turning and going in a different direction.

Also, to say that those players you listed made the team "special", when he brought in none of them (except Hossa), is a bad argument for SB.