Sure, I'm game. Donate all money to Jeff Blashill's new Tony Robbins tapes. He's running out of material.
- gergeswillems

Maybe switch to Zig Zilar or Stuart Smalley?

Your insight is way more valuable. Please don’t get kicked off!

Maybe switch to Zig Zilar or Stuart Smalley?

Your insight is way more valuable. Please don’t get kicked off!
- Jeremy Laura

I'm afraid it's inevitable. Too many thin skin Sally's. Oh this will do it for sure.😉

Sure, I'm game. Donate all money to Jeff Blashill's new Tony Robbins tapes. He's running out of material. Dr. Blashill? #trust #process #tank


- gergeswillems

Did you photoshop that yourself? That is frighteningly well done

Did you photoshop that yourself? That is frighteningly well done
- Jeremy Laura

No I can't take credit for that. It looks like the old hockey night in Canada jackets from the 80s.

No I can't take credit for that. It looks like the old hockey night in Canada jackets from the 80s.


- gergeswillems

Oh man it does! Still, good job tracking that down!

AA for Nurse. Straight up.
- drrtydan

I'm afraid it's inevitable. Too many thin skin Sally's. Oh this will do it for sure.😉
- gergeswillems

Thin skin sally sounds like a weird drink that knocks you out and when you wake up you’re in the foreign legion. Again

This team is an atrocity. How did it get this bad?

Just want to mark this occasion:

After last night's loss, the Red Wings are now on pace for fewer points at season's end (~42.5) than the next worst team has already accumulated (Los Angeles; 43 points in 53 games).

This team is an atrocity. How did it get this bad?
- Just5

Basically everything.

- Too many seasons spent chasing "The Streak" instead of planning for the future and making a "controlled entry" into a rebuild.

- A GM who significantly overvalued his own role players and continued to give them huge raises even as their performance declined (Abdelkader, Helm, Ericsson, etc.).

- Too many seasons in a row of middling to poor drafting.

- Bad coaching.

- Significant injuries to key contributors this season (Mantha, DeKeyser, Athanasiou, now Zadina).

- Formerly dependable veterans all hitting the "cliff" phase of their career curves at the same time (Howard, Green, Nielsen).

This team is an atrocity. How did it get this bad?
- Just5

A lazy complacent Ken Holland. Poor drafting. Terrible scouting. Tyler Wright failed miserably. Horrible overpaid Free agent signings. No impactful trades. Accepting mediocrity. Celebrating moral victories. Being #1 in the NHL at making excuses. Using injuries as a crutch.

Clinging to a meaningless playoff streak when a rebuild should've started after Lidstrom retired. Overpaying average players to long term cap crippling contracts they didn't deserve. Handing out no trade and no move clauses like candy to players who never deserved them.

Hiring a clueless coach who loves hearing himself talk who's a handicap behind the bench. Mister I not replacing Holland with Yzerman in 2011 and allowing Holland to veto him. This has been a decade in the making. The Red Wings deserve to be exactly where they are.

Passing over Quinn Hughes in the draft will haunt this team for the next 20 years. Sheer stupidity passing over him for Zadina.

This team is an atrocity. How did it get this bad?
- Just5

Ken Holland

A lazy complacent Ken Holland. Poor drafting. Terrible scouting. Tyler Wright failed miserably. Horrible overpaid Free agent signings. No impactful trades. Accepting mediocrity. Celebrating moral victories. Being #1 in the NHL at making excuses. Using injuries as a crutch.

Clinging to a meaningless playoff streak when a rebuild should've started after Lidstrom retired. Overpaying average players to long term cap crippling contracts they didn't deserve. Handing out no trade and no move clauses like candy to players who never deserved them.

Hiring a clueless coach who loves hearing himself talk who's a handicap behind the bench. Mister I not replacing Holland with Yzerman in 2011 and allowing Holland to veto him. This has been a decade in the making. The Red Wings deserve to be exactly where they are.

Passing over Quinn Hughes in the draft will haunt this team for the next 20 years. Sheer stupidity passing over him for Zadina.
- gergeswillems

Zadina was rated higher than Hughes. You can’t fault anyone for that.

Zadina was rated higher than Hughes. You can’t fault anyone for that.
- Feds91Stammer

Yes I can. The need was for defense. Not another forward.

AA for Sam Bennett, Jankowski
AA for Backes, Heinen, 2020 1st
AA for Lagesson and Puljujarvi
AA for Baertschi, Goldobin, Gadjovich
Honka for both 2021 3rd
Donato for 2020 3rd, 2021 4th
Husso, 5th for Hicketts

Yes I can. The need was for defense. Not another forward.
- gergeswillems

The need was everywhere. Forwards, D, goaltending ... every part of the roster needed help.

IMO it was much more important to get the guy with the greatest chance of becoming an elite player, regardless of position. In hindsight, Hughes might have panned out better (though the jury is very much still out). But based on what we knew in the summer of 2018 Zadina was the obvious choice.

Yes I can. The need was for defense. Not another forward.
- gergeswillems

Forwards provide more on ice value and you never draft for need.

AA for Sam Bennett, Jankowski
AA for Backes, Heinen, 2020 1st
AA for Lagesson and Puljujarvi
AA for Baertschi, Goldobin, Gadjovich
Honka for both 2021 3rd
Donato for 2020 3rd, 2021 4th
Husso, 5th for Hicketts
- Udogs

Only 2 of those trades are worthwhile. The Boston and Edmonton ones.

Forwards provide more on ice value and you never draft for need.
- Feds91Stammer

Nope. Holland blew it. Should've drafted Hughes. Teams draft for need all the time.

The need was everywhere. Forwards, D, goaltending ... every part of the roster needed help.

IMO it was much more important to get the guy with the greatest chance of becoming an elite player, regardless of position. In hindsight, Hughes might have panned out better (though the jury is very much still out). But based on what we knew in the summer of 2018 Zadina was the obvious choice.
- Sven22

No he wasn't. After Dahlin, Hughes was the second best defenseman in the draft. Defense was the most glaring need but Holland went for the shiny toy in Zadina. Zadina wasn't expected to fall to #6 but that didn't mean Holland had to take him. After Dahlin and Svechnikov were picked, 3 other teams passed on Zadina. Habs took Kotkaniemi. Sens took Tkachuk. Coyotes took Hayton. So why didn't Zadina get taken before those guys? Teams don't draft for need apparently.

I screamed for Holland to draft Quinn Hughes months before that draft. How could he not see his talent? He played for U of Michigan! But Hughes was apparently too small. Here's the kicker though. Holland was all set to draft Evan Bouchard untill Zadina fell to him. So Hughes was never an option for Holland.

Zadina put up big stats in the Q and inflated his value. Even if he becomes a second line scoring winger, his ceiling is much lower than Quinn Hughes. We're already seeing it. I'll take a franchise #1 defenseman over a second line scoring winger any day. Even if Zadina becomes a 1W, give me the 1D.

Saying Zadina was the better pick over Hughes is selective justification. Ask any Canucks Fan if they'd trade Hughes for Zadina. They'd die of laughter.

AA for Sam Bennett, Jankowski
AA for Backes, Heinen, 2020 1st
AA for Lagesson and Puljujarvi
AA for Baertschi, Goldobin, Gadjovich
Honka for both 2021 3rd
Donato for 2020 3rd, 2021 4th
Husso, 5th for Hicketts
- Udogs

🤮

No he wasn't. After Dahlin, Hughes was the second best defenseman in the draft. Defense was the most glaring need but Holland went for the shiny toy in Zadina. Zadina wasn't expected to fall to #6 but that didn't mean Holland had to take him. After Dahlin and Svechnikov were picked, 3 other teams passed on Zadina. Habs took Kotkaniemi. Sens took Tkachuk. Coyotes took Hayton. So why didn't Zadina get taken after those guys? Teams don't draft for need apparently.

Zadina put up big stats in the Q and inflated his value. Even if he becomes a second line scoring winger, his ceiling is much lower than Quinn Hughes. We're already seeing it. I'll take a franchise #1 defenseman over a second line scoring winger any day. Even if Zadina becomes a 1W, give me the 1D.

Saying Zadina was the better pick over Zadina is selective justification. Ask any Canucks Fan if they'd trade Hughes for Zadina. They'd die of laughter.
- gergeswillems

Probably 90 percent of expert rankings had Zadina above Hughes, if not more.

Probably only half of those experts even had Hughes as the clear No. 2 defender. Many had Boqvist, Bouchard, and/or Dobson at the same level or above. I saw rankings that had Hughes as low as 12th overall.

Plus the truth is just that it's really, really hard to project an 18-year-old defender. You look at who the best players are right now in the NHL by position, and the vast majority of forwards were high first round picks. The best defenders are all over the map -- some top picks, but lots from later rounds too. The bust rate for defenders is higher. They are much riskier picks.

So if your team has glaring needs everywhere, you have no players in your system even close to having elite potential, and you're choosing between a consensus top-5 forward or a defender ranked anywhere from 5th to 12th based on who you ask -- it's hard to fault a team for picking the forward.

Look, I'm agreeing with you that, as of right now, based on what we know in February of 2020, you are probably correct that Hughes will end up the better player. If we could do it over again knowing what we know now, by all means, take Hughes.

Your assertion, however, that this was obvious in June of 2018 is flat wrong. You are the one using selective justification here.

A lot of activity in the Wings blog today

This is very exciting

Probably 90 percent of expert rankings had Zadina above Hughes, if not more.

Probably only half of those experts even had Hughes as the clear No. 2 defender. Many had Boqvist, Bouchard, and/or Dobson at the same level or above. I saw rankings that had Hughes as low as 12th overall.

Plus the truth is just that it's really, really hard to project an 18-year-old defender. You look at who the best players are right now in the NHL by position, and the vast majority of forwards were high first round picks. The best defenders are all over the map -- some top picks, but lots from later rounds too. The bust rate for defenders is higher. They are much riskier picks.

So if your team has glaring needs everywhere, you have no players in your system even close to having elite potential, and you're choosing between a consensus top-5 forward or a defender ranked anywhere from 5th to 12th based on who you ask -- it's hard to fault a team for picking the forward.

Look, I'm agreeing with you that, as of right now, based on what we know in February of 2020, you are probably correct that Hughes will end up the better player. If we could do it over again knowing what we know now, by all means, take Hughes.

Your assertion, however, that this was obvious in June of 2018 is flat wrong. You are the one using selective justification here.
- Sven22

This blunder set the Red Wings rebuild back 5 years. You're wrong. I can use my opinion as fact too. That's what Feds does. Teams have different rankings than what we're privy to. Benning obviously wasn't fooled.

This blunder set the Red Wings rebuild back 5 years. You're wrong. I can use my opinion as fact too. That's what Feds does. Teams have different rankings than what we're privy to. Benning obviously wasn't fooled.
- gergeswillems

Sure, teams have different rankings. But not a single team gets it right 100 percent of the time.

That's because drafting requires a lot of educated guesswork and luck. Perfectly projecting how an 18-year-old is going to perform over the long term in a much more challenging and evolving environment is not possible.

The mistake is saying that Benning deserves 100 percent of the credit for somehow knowing what Hughes was going to develop into. That's BS. He didn't know. He was making educated guesses like the rest of us. His just happened to pan out. If he, you, or anyone else had all the answers beforehand on every prospect your team would win 70 games every year.

Congrats on correctly predicting that Hughes would be the better player all the way back in 2018. Just don't make the mistake of believing that just because your personal predication happened to be correct, it's because you knew it all along.