I don't think it's a coincidence that Jake's numbers improved when he was moved to a line with JTM and EP. Just like it's not a coincidence that Brock's numbers decrease when moved off that line.

We need players who can drive the play instead of being passengers. JTM, EP, QH are drivers. The rest so far...
- bloatedmosquito

- neem55

Don't like that take?

I think we have a similar situation as we did with the twins. You can move anyone you want on that line and they'll start producing at a career pace. I really wanted to see BB have a positive affect on the line he was moved to, but I don't think that's happened.

Just an opinion...

Don't like that take?

I think we have a similar situation as we did with the twins. You can move anyone you want on that line and they'll start producing at a career pace. I really wanted to see BB have a positive affect on the line he was moved to, but I don't think that's happened.

Just an opinion...
- bloatedmosquito

Need 2/3 players to be drivers if you want a successful line imo. I get that Loui is playing the best he has as a canuck and all, but Bo and Brock have chemistry...

Don't like that take?

I think we have a similar situation as we did with the twins. You can move anyone you want on that line and they'll start producing at a career pace. I really wanted to see BB have a positive affect on the line he was moved to, but I don't think that's happened.

Just an opinion...
- bloatedmosquito

It’s like saying kassian benefits from playing with mcdavid and leon. We have no issue scoring up and down the lineup, so overall it just seems like an funny comment given how well the top6 has performed. But hey, to each their own!

This is a place for serious conversations only, not hypotheticals. As our resident fat sloth can attest to, Bo being mentioned as a 3C is a trigger word
- CanuckDon

Fecking Vantel, I bought it hook line and sinker too.

Need 2/3 players to be drivers if you want a successful line imo. I get that Loui is playing the best he has as a canuck and all, but Bo and Brock have chemistry...
- NorthNuck

Sure, but my point is that Brock playing with Adam Gaudette recently isn't having a huge impact on AG's game. It's obvious why Brock's numbers dropped so rapidly but I would like to see his ability as a top score pay instant dividends for AG, similar to how Jake's numbers jumped.

I agree that Bo and Brock have some chemistry but we don't get to see that enough.

Like a shutdown 44pts in 50 games kind of guy or?
- neem55

I'm not clear on the question but historically there have been players that can do both. Put up points and play great 2 way hockey. They're coveted because of their versatility up and down the line-up in any style of game.

It’s like saying kassian benefits from playing with mcdavid and leon. We have no issue scoring up and down the lineup, so overall it just seems like an funny comment given how well the top6 has performed. But hey, to each their own!
- neem55

Exactly. That's why I still think Kassian is poop. He's bounced around the league until he miraculously found his way on a line with two of the best players in hockey.

All of a sudden "Kass has finally found his game" and "he's living up to his potential". Bullpoop. He (frank)ing lucked out.

True that we have scoring up and down the line up but I think a very few select players are creating those opportunities whether it's 5v5 or special teams.

Exactly. That's why I still think Kassian is poop. He's bounced around the league until he miraculously found his way on a line with two of the best players in hockey.

All of a sudden "Kass has finally found his game" and "he's living up to his potential". Bullpoop. He (frank)ing lucked out.

True that we have scoring up and down the line up but I think a very few select players are creating those opportunities whether it's 5v5 or special teams.
- bloatedmosquito

Sure, but my point is that Brock playing with Adam Gaudette recently isn't having a huge impact on AG's game. It's obvious why Brock's numbers dropped so rapidly but I would like to see his ability as a top score pay instant dividends for AG, similar to how Jake's numbers jumped.

I agree that Bo and Brock have some chemistry but we don't get to see that enough.
- bloatedmosquito

I can't figure out why Brock isn't playing with Bo right now to get some more ice time. You can put LE back on that line at the end of games when they're shutting other teams down but I really think BB would benefit playing with another top 6 player.

Exactly. That's why I still think Kassian is poop. He's bounced around the league until he miraculously found his way on a line with two of the best players in hockey.

All of a sudden "Kass has finally found his game" and "he's living up to his potential". Bullpoop. He (frank)ing lucked out.

True that we have scoring up and down the line up but I think a very few select players are creating those opportunities whether it's 5v5 or special teams.
- bloatedmosquito

I agree, but it's also about chemistry. You can't just stick ANYONE on any line and have it click. How many "better" wingers did the Sedins play with until Burrows just clicked better?

Also, I'd be curious, how many players does each team have that drive the play consistently like EP, JTM, and QH? What's the average? 3? 4?

I can't figure out why Brock isn't playing with Bo right now to get some more ice time. You can put LE back on that line at the end of games when they're shutting other teams down but I really think BB would benefit playing with another top 6 player.
- NorthNuck

We spend a lot of time trying to reason with Green's strategies.

I would rather be saying "now that AG is playing with a top 6 player, he's exceeding expectations". But I agree, Brock needs better players to help his game.

I agree, but it's also about chemistry. You can't just stick ANYONE on any line and have it click. How many "better" wingers did the Sedins play with until Burrows just clicked better?

Also, I'd be curious, how many players does each team have that drive the play consistently like EP, JTM, and QH? What's the average? 3? 4?
- NewYorkNuck

I don't know if I agree with this. The Sedin's point totals were pretty consistent over the years regardless of who they played with. Whoever played with them were the one's who profoundly improved. From Burrows, to Vrbata, to Carter, to Klatt. Doesn't matter. Same result. Career numbers or at least decent totals.

The original question from neem was if JV has a higher ceiling than we originally thought. My answer is no. He looks better because of the players around him.

I want JV to be the one making line mates better.

We spend a lot of time trying to reason with Green's strategies.

I would rather be saying "now that AG is playing with a top 6 player, he's exceeding expectations". But I agree, Brock needs better players to help his game.
- bloatedmosquito

We've seen a number of effective lines this season so I think it's nice that Green has options when players aren't going.

We don't have many playmakers on our team and I think Brock needs that to be a high end player, especially if he isn't the go to guy on the PP.

Roussel was really good with Horvat so I would be interested to see that combo with Brock

I also still think Ferland is going to be a key piece and it will be interesting to see where he slots in. He's got some underrated playmaking ability IMO.

I don't know if I agree with this. The Sedin's point totals were pretty consistent over the years regardless of who they played with. Whoever played with them were the one's who profoundly improved. From Burrows, to Vrbata, to Carter, to Klatt. Doesn't matter. Same result. Career numbers or at least decent totals.

The original question from neem was if JV has a higher ceiling than we originally thought. My answer is no. He looks better because of the players around him.

I want JV to be the one making line mates better.
- bloatedmosquito

Depends on what you thought his ceiling was. I've seen a pretty broad range of opinions on him.

I always saw his ceiling as a middle 6 guy that can play up temporarily if the situation demanded it. Seems like he's starting to turn into that player. I have seen others however, who have said that he will be nothing more than a bottom 6 checking guy.

I don't know if I agree with this. The Sedin's point totals were pretty consistent over the years regardless of who they played with. Whoever played with them were the one's who profoundly improved. From Burrows, to Vrbata, to Carter, to Klatt. Doesn't matter. Same result. Career numbers or at least decent totals.

The original question from neem was if JV has a higher ceiling than we originally thought. My answer is no. He looks better because of the players around him.

I want JV to be the one making line mates better.
- bloatedmosquito

I'm not saying the Sedins were better because of Burrows, I'm saying their entire line was so much more dominant with him on it than with a supposedly "better" winger. The chemistry the three of them had outweighs the individual skill of a more talented player playing with them.

So while I agree all these guys numbers get inflated playing with a Petey or McDavid, there's an element of chemistry that benefits the entire line/team that's not being addressed.

Exactly. That's why I still think Kassian is poop. He's bounced around the league until he miraculously found his way on a line with two of the best players in hockey.

All of a sudden "Kass has finally found his game" and "he's living up to his potential". Bullpoop. He (frank)ing lucked out.

True that we have scoring up and down the line up but I think a very few select players are creating those opportunities whether it's 5v5 or special teams.
- bloatedmosquito

A little harsh? lol

No love for the fact that Kassian himself himself battled back from drug/alcohol addiction, got his life together, and worked his way up the lineup to a better line?
Sure agreed anyone would benefit from being with Macdavid/Drai or Crosby/Malkin...still he was starting to show production off the McDavid line which was one of the reasons he was moved up. Still produces and provides what the club needs with Draisaitl off the McDavid line. It's not like Neal or Archibald are propping Kassian up lol. A little credit where it's due.

A little harsh? lol

No love for the fact that Kassian himself himself battled back from drug/alcohol addiction, got his life together, and worked his way up the lineup to a better line?
Sure agreed anyone would benefit from being with Macdavid/Drai or Crosby/Malkin...still he was starting to show production off the McDavid line which was one of the reasons he was moved up. Still produces and provides what the club needs with Draisaitl off the McDavid line. It's not like Neal or Archibald are propping Kassian up lol. A little credit where it's due.
- LordHumungous

So what you’re saying is that Kassian is a weak female dog who can’t handle a few drinks and a little blow? Another reason not to like him.

I'm not saying the Sedins were better because of Burrows, I'm saying their entire line was so much more dominant with him on it than with a supposedly "better" winger. The chemistry the three of them had outweighs the individual skill of a more talented player playing with them.

So while I agree all these guys numbers get inflated playing with a Petey or McDavid, there's an element of chemistry that benefits the entire line/team that's not being addressed.
- NewYorkNuck

I agree Burrows made the whole line better.

Ironically, one of the non-Vancouver Athletic bloggers did an interview with Gillis recently and Gillis talked about some of the lessons learned. He's clearly on a self-promotion tour but nevertheless, I found this story interesting because it had very little to do with the Canucks in particular and more to do with processes.

One of the main takeaways was that "Groupthink" can be really dangerous because it is so biased and influenced by media and other factors.

One of his examples is that his first year, they had prioritized getting a winger for the Sedins I order to help them get to the next level. They did their analysis and decided he had to shoot right, be an established finisher, skating didn't matter etc. Through this process they establish a list and go into UFA.

As we got into free agency we began to eliminate certain candidates or they were eliminated by other teams signing them. We had our macro plan. We had our cap plan. And one player, who was at the top of our list kept coming back to us, coming back to us, coming back to us. We had identified him as a really strong candidate. We had gone through all the analysis. We had our cap plan in place. There became a point in time where, to sign this player would have disrupted our cap plan, which was critical to what we thought we needed to do in order to build a championship team. … We were very very determined to maintain a contract slotting strategy.

When it came down to this player, I had the whole staff in the room. I said, ‘OK, here he is, this is what the cost is going to be. What do you think?’ We went around the room, and the consensus was almost entirely and this was an emotional one, we need this player. We thought that this was the ideal player for Daniel and Henrik to continue to improve and get to the levels they got to without this player. We were really compelled to think this guy fit the profile we wanted. Except for the fact that he now exceeded our cap plan.

Almost all the older guys said go get the player, get the player, get the player. You have to get the player. A couple of the others said, ‘If we get this player we’re not going to be able to do, this, this, this and this.’ The decision was ultimately mine and I said, ‘We’re not getting this player, we have to figure out something else for Daniel and Henrik because we need these other pieces to be successful.’

The player was Michael Ryder, who signed that year 4 million over 3 years to play with the Bruins. If they sign him, does Burrows ever get a chance? Do the Sedins take the next step?

Impossible to know but interesting regardless.

I agree Burrows made the whole line better.

Ironically, one of the non-Vancouver Athletic bloggers did an interview with Gillis recently and Gillis talked about some of the lessons learned. He's clearly on a self-promotion tour but nevertheless, I found this story interesting because it had very little to do with the Canucks in particular and more to do with processes.

One of the main takeaways was that "Groupthink" can be really dangerous because it is so biased and influenced by media and other factors.

One of his examples is that his first year, they had prioritized getting a winger for the Sedins I order to help them get to the next level. They did their analysis and decided he had to shoot right, be an established finisher, skating didn't matter etc. Through this process they establish a list and go into UFA.



The player was Michael Ryder, who signed that year 4 million over 3 years to play with the Bruins. If they sign him, does Burrows ever get a chance? Do the Sedins take the next step?

Impossible to know but interesting regardless.
- belcherbd

That was a good read, was that behind a paywall?

So what you’re saying is that Kassian is a weak female dog who can’t handle a few drinks and a little blow? Another reason not to like him.
- bloatedmosquito

That was a good read, was that behind a paywall?
- Makita

Yes, the Athletic.

Jerky Lumme was a great Canucks d man. Jovocop or Salo has to have been the best though I'm thinking. Unless I'm forgetting someone.
- kaptaan

Ohlund was the best

I don't think it's a coincidence that Jake's numbers improved when he was moved to a line with JTM and EP. Just like it's not a coincidence that Brock's numbers decrease when moved off that line.

We need players who can drive the play instead of being passengers. JTM, EP, QH are drivers. The rest so far...
- bloatedmosquito

hmm Ep line was clicking along with BB , and AG line was noticeable with JV , then switched up the EP line keeps on keeping on and the AG line is lost🤔...maybe its JV that makes people better

We spend a lot of time trying to reason with Green's strategies.

I would rather be saying "now that AG is playing with a top 6 player, he's exceeding expectations". But I agree, Brock needs better players to help his game.
- bloatedmosquito

BB's been working on other aspects of his game more this season. He'll get back to scoring soon enough. It only takes one game to click and find that groove to take off. He's capable of doing it with AG, Bo or Petey. Up to Green how he deploys him.