You think NY perceives him as a backup? Everyone knows he's a future starter. Stop acting like he's 34 and been a backup for 10 years.
- aminnes

New York sees him as trade bait. he's not their future starter at all. they have a better prospect they think is better.

To pay a massive price for a goalie based on him being a future #1 is dumb, You can't predict goaltending at all. That's why they rarely are picked high.

Igor Shesterkin is the Rangers future starter.

Seriously. You need to stop perceiving him like he's proven ANYTHING.

He has played in 10, 33 and 23 games in 3 different NHL seasons posting save percentages of .918, .914 and .910 in that descending order.

He has potential. He hasn't done anything to merit the outlandish price tag people want him to have.

To put this in perspective, a 37 year old Lundqvist has a save percentage of .907 this year behind the same defense.
- Monkeypunk

I don't disagree, but NY sees him as their future.

I would say people overblow Nylander's value. Other Gms know full well he is one dimensional and surely wonder what he could do without playing with Matthews and/or Tavares.

Would the Rangers trade away their perceived future number one goalie for a guy who should score 30? Probably. Would they trade their perceived future number one for a guy who scored 20 once but looks like a lower tier top 6 forward? I doubt it.

Obviously, I'm not in the room with Gorton and Davidson, but honestly, Georgie is not perceived as a backup or the future.
He's been too good to keep as a backup, but Shesterkin is the future.
They need to pull the trigger on moving Georgie while his stock is high, but there's no way he's bringing back a top-9 player one for one. As much as I wish it were true. I'm not huge on Kapanen, living in Southern Ontario, I see more of the Leafs than I might like, but I don't see that he has any skills more valuable than his speed.
That being said, I would love to see a Georgie package that brings back Kapanen and someone like Bracco. I don't know your whole prospect pool, so I don't know what others to target that have upside. Would love Robertson, but I understand he is probably not being moved.
- Tonybere

sounds like andersen/gibson. we paid a late 1st and 2nd for the lesser of the 2.

Gorgiev isn't really seen as a future star goalie at all. Where do people get this stuff?

New York sees him as trade bait. he's not their future starter at all. they have a better prospect they think is better.

To pay a massive price for a goalie based on him being a future #1 is dumb, You can't predict goaltending at all. That's why they rarely are picked high.

Igor Shesterkin is the Rangers future starter.
- RogerRoeper

I agree. I never said I wanted him, I just said NY is not trading him for a Johnsson, but they likely would for a Nylander.

I don't disagree, but NY sees him as their future.

I would say people overblow Nylander's value. Other Gms know full well he is one dimensional and surely wonder what he could do without playing with Matthews and/or Tavares.

Would the Rangers trade away their perceived future number one goalie for a guy who should score 30? Probably. Would they trade their perceived future number one for a guy who scored 20 once but looks like a lower tier top 6 forward? I doubt it.
- aminnes

Stop saying this. Igor Shesterkin is their future #1. Gorgiev is trade bait due to having a guy who they think will be better.

I agree. I never said I wanted him, I just said NY is not trading him for a Johnsson, but they likely would for a Nylander.
- aminnes

You honestly think any NHL team will trade someone that good for a backup? Not happening. Have you seen what backups go for?

New York sees him as trade bait. he's not their future starter at all. they have a better prospect they think is better.

To pay a massive price for a goalie based on him being a future #1 is dumb, You can't predict goaltending at all. That's why they rarely are picked high.

Igor Shesterkin is the Rangers present starter.
- RogerRoeper

- fixed!

Hank has only started one game since Jan. 2.
Shesty sent down to get some games in during our 10 day break, then he'll be back up.
Unfortunately, Lundqvist is in the way right now, that's the reality. But, he's earned the right to finish out his contract in NY ten times over.

IMO, it should be Johnsson for Georgiev. 1 for 1.

We get a decent back up, and the Rangers get a top 6 winger
- PatC80

I don't think I'm overvaluing Johnsson when I say that I think that's an overpayment.

Other guys I would lump into the same boat as Johnsson based on age and production:

Sam Reinhart, Tyler Bertuzzi, Pavel Buchnevich, Oliver Bjorkstrand, Jakub Vrana, Frank Vatrano, Dylan Strome, Anthony Duclair, Alex Galchenyuk . . .

They're all roughly in that 22-24 age range and produced around 20 goals and 40 points at their ages. Some are obviously better than others and have more potential, but all of them have proven something at the NHL level at a young age.

Georgiev is just 23 which is great, but he has not played more than 33 games in an NHL season. This year he is worse than last year statistically.

Cam Talbot was traded for a 2nd and a 3rd.
Andersen was traded for a late 1st and a 2nd
Grubauer (with Orpik) was traded for a 2nd
Kuemper was traded for Rieder and Wedgewood (what a steal)
Raanta was traded with Stepan for DeAngelo and a 1st

I don't see giving up a top 6 guy for an unproven backup as the market rate.

Leafs are always supposed to pay more than other players in trades LOL

I don't think I'm overvaluing Johnsson when I say that I think that's an overpayment.

Other guys I would lump into the same boat as Johnsson based on age and production:

Sam Reinhart, Tyler Bertuzzi, Pavel Buchnevich, Oliver Bjorkstrand, Jakub Vrana, Frank Vatrano, Dylan Strome, Anthony Duclair, Alex Galchenyuk . . .

They're all roughly in that 22-24 age range and produced around 20 goals and 40 points at their ages. Some are obviously better than others and have more potential, but all of them have proven something at the NHL level at a young age.

Georgiev is just 23 which is great, but he has not played more than 33 games in an NHL season. This year he is worse than last year statistically.

Cam Talbot was traded for a 2nd and a 3rd.
Andersen was traded for a late 1st and a 2nd
Grubauer (with Orpik) was traded for a 2nd
Kuemper was traded for Rieder and Wedgewood (what a steal)
Raanta was traded with Stepan for DeAngelo and a 1st

I don't see giving up a top 6 guy for an unproven backup as the market rate.
- Monkeypunk

this.

the goalie market generally sucks. there is no precedent for giving up kap

You honestly think any NHL team will trade someone that good for a backup? Not happening. Have you seen what backups go for?
- RogerRoeper

This is truth, man. You should believe him.
We have the Goalie Whisperer in Benoit Allaire. He turned Talbot and then Raanta into great trade chips, but honestly, Georgiev is better than those two, IMO.
But, the reality is that backups don't bring huge returns. Talbot was fire incarnate when he was traded and only brought back a 2nd and 3rd round picks.

Gorgiev isn't really seen as a future star goalie at all. Where do people get this stuff?
- RogerRoeper

He's seen as one just like Bernier was seen as one.

this.

the goalie market generally sucks. there is no precedent for giving up kap
- Tumbleweed

The Rangers have said they want t top 6 forward they can plug in now, not a prospect. They are trying to raise the bar.

I don't disagree, but NY sees him as their future.

I would say people overblow Nylander's value. Other Gms know full well he is one dimensional and surely wonder what he could do without playing with Matthews and/or Tavares.

Would the Rangers trade away their perceived future number one goalie for a guy who should score 30? Probably. Would they trade their perceived future number one for a guy who scored 20 once but looks like a lower tier top 6 forward? I doubt it.
- aminnes

Look at Talbot, Andersen and Grabeaur trades.

Also look how many games each of them played compared to Georgiev.

The Rangers have said they want t top 6 forward they can plug in now, not a prospect. They are trying to raise the bar.
- aminnes

Cool

No team has to pay it. They can ask for a top pairing D for all I care.

I agree. I never said I wanted him, I just said NY is not trading him for a Johnsson, but they likely would for a Nylander.
- aminnes

Stop saying this. Igor Shesterkin is their future #1. Gorgiev is trade bait due to having a guy who they think will be better.
- RogerRoeper

Your right. I should have said A future number one.

NO ONE will ever trade a Nylander type for a backup. that's cray cray. We're getting a heck of a lot more if we trade Nylander.
- RogerRoeper

This hurts a bit.

But i agree. No way in fack are we trading willie for a backup, if that was the suggestion.

The Rangers have said they want t top 6 forward they can plug in now, not a prospect. They are trying to raise the bar.
- aminnes

Yes, they are. And I have the sickening feeling that if they stick to their guns, we are going to be carrying 3 goalies until July 1st. And that is not the best scenario.

Cool

No team has to pay it. They can ask for a top pairing D for all I care.
- Santo_44

Which brings us back around to the reality that the Leafs aren't getting a better backup if all they are offering is fringe top 6 players. Might as well roll with Hutch.

This is truth, man. You should believe him.
We have the Goalie Whisperer in Benoit Allaire. He turned Talbot and then Raanta into great trade chips, but honestly, Georgiev is better than those two, IMO.
But, the reality is that backups don't bring huge returns. Talbot was fire incarnate when he was traded and only brought back a 2nd and 3rd round picks.
- Tonybere

And that is a goalie with an insane save percentage with the same amount of starts. (close to it)

-beef?-
- ug0tbeef?

Over the last three seasons, only seven goalies have saved 0.2 goals above expected per game or more. Georgiev is one of them, joining John Gibson, Ryan Miller, Ben Bishop, Antti Raanta, Darcy Kuemper and Jordan Binnington. It’s that last name that’s most intriguing as Georgiev’s numbers are nearly identical to Binnington’s over the same amount of games.

Check yourself... He's far from done...

Which brings us back around to the reality that the Leafs aren't getting a better backup if all they are offering is fringe top 6 players. Might as well roll with Hutch.
- aminnes

Hutch it is then.

Which brings us back around to the reality that the Leafs aren't getting a better backup if all they are offering is fringe top 6 players. Might as well roll with Hutch.
- aminnes

Get a UFA.

No team is paying a proven top 6 forward for Georgiev. The Rangers don't have to trade him and another team doesn't have to trade for him.

If they want to? Look at a Talbot return as a direct comparable. If not? They are forced to keep the 3 goalie carousel.