Copp has very limited offensive skills....just use the "eye test".
That doesn't make him a bad player, just not a # 2 center.
- bennythehat

I’ll take the results, as well as my own observations, over the unsubstantiated opinion of one man

It's a systemic issue in that the defense has difficulty getting control of the puck and getting it to the forwards. Scoring suffers because scorers can't get the puck.
- BINGO!

The defensive zone system issue effects the defensive zone not the offensive zone, even when the scorers are in the offensive zone they can't score. Three goals in their last two games and Markstrom had an off night when they got 4 goals against Vancouver.

I’ll take the results, as well as my own observations, over the unsubstantiated opinion of one man
- Rexypoo

Are you talking about yourself ?

The defensive zone system issue effects the defensive zone not the offensive zone, even when the scorers are in the offensive zone they can't score. Three goals in their last two games and Markstrom had an off night when they got 4 goals against Vancouver.
- JetFuel

Reality is that we have 5, maybe 6 forwards that actually have a chance to score on a given night. We just are not going to get much from Lowry, Copp, Perreault, Shore, Appleton, Harkins/Bourque.

Is the defense this teams biggest issue?
No doubt the defense isn't great but the Jets systems are failures no matter who's on defense.

They can't score, they need more goals.

These ideas I hear or read of trading Ehlers, Laine or Connor for a dman are just dumb, a team that has almost zero secondary scoring shouldn't trade one of their few players who do score for help on defense.
- JetFuel

There is 7.6 available when and if Buf doesn't come back. So, that should be at least buy some offensive or defensive help, hopefully D. Are there any other holes to fill? I sure think so.

We couldn't keep the Tanev, Chairot, Myers, because we couldn't afford them. There was no money to spend, no cap available.

So, using Laine for example, on a 2 year bridge and if Buf was here, we would be essentially capped out. So, using Laine for example, not saying he should be traded but do you think he is going to sign a long term deal for 6.75 per after his bridge is done? If the team is capped out now (or would be if Buf was here), where is another 2 - 3 million going to come from to sign him? What position suffers to sign Laine to a long term deal?

So, you have great 1st and second line talent and then nothing after. Which, is where we are at the moment.

Something has to give folks and Connor and Ehlers are long term deals.

I’ll take the results, as well as my own observations, over the unsubstantiated opinion of one man
- Rexypoo

Copp is a keeper, no doubt. I am not sold on 2c but if they play him there, I am not going to complain. Agreed he hasn't been given the chance at that postion.

Copp is a keeper, no doubt. I am not sold on 2c but if they play him there, I am not going to complain. Agreed he hasn't been given the chance at that postion.
- CharlieDog

Better to give Copp a chance at 2C, then try to convert a 33 year old winger into one.

Better to give Copp a chance at 2C, then try to convert a 33 year old winger into one.
- BWJumper

Copp is gonna be 26 years old in july.

He is what he is at this point.

Copp is gonna be 26 years old in july.

He is what he is at this point.
- BINGO!

Then if its so easy to convert to C make Laine one.

Better to give Copp a chance at 2C, then try to convert a 33 year old winger into one.
- BWJumper

Forget about Wheeler playing center, he should be playing defense. He has got size, speed, great play making ability and plus he said he would do anything for Maurice.

Time to step-up Wheels, we need you to become our number one d-man!

Reality is that we have 5, maybe 6 forwards that actually have a chance to score on a given night. We just are not going to get much from Lowry, Copp, Perreault, Shore, Appleton, Harkins/Bourque.
- bennythehat

Maybe you can explain this to me? A friend of mine made an interesting observation this weekend. We have four centers in the AHL, Petan, Roslovic, Appleton and now Harkins, produce at a point per game clip. All were considered offensive dynamos playing with Moose that apparently play the same system as Maurice. How come none of the four have contributed anything on the big stage? None are producing even at a half point per game.

There seems to be some sort of disconnect between Maurice and Vincent.

5-on-5 Goals Per 60:

Ehlers - 1.01
Connor - 0.97
Laine - 0.90

5-on-5 Points per 60:

Ehlers - 2.45
Connor - 2.27
Laine - 2.21
- BINGO!

This is very well researched post. Leaves something for me to ponder.

Good job BINGO!!!

This is very well researched post. Leaves something for me to ponder.

Good job BINGO!!!
- TheUltimateJet

Not sure how it all works out this year, but I can say that his powerplay production last year is the only thing that kept Laine from being a net-negative impact player last season.

Though you can't discount that powerplay work. It IS a skill. Not every player is effective on the PP.

Maybe you can explain this to me? A friend of mine made an interesting observation this weekend. We have four centers in the AHL, Petan, Roslovic, Appleton and now Harkins, produce at a point per game clip. All were considered offensive dynamos playing with Moose that apparently play the same system as Maurice. How come none of the four have contributed anything on the big stage? None are producing even at a half point per game.

There seems to be some sort of disconnect between Maurice and Vincent.
- TheUltimateJet

Ice time is obviously a major factor, but one also must consider that the Nic Petan's of the world are used to being #1 centers, and when they get to the NHL, they start as 3 or 4's. Also, the AHL is not the NHL.

Ice time is obviously a major factor, but one also must consider that the Nic Petan's of the world are used to being #1 centers, and when they get to the NHL, they start as 3 or 4's. Also, the AHL is not the NHL.
- bennythehat

AHL is a lot less structured than the NHL is. Some guys who are highly creative but maybe a bit lacking in footspeed can thrive down there but struggle at the NHL level where everything is happening just a little faster. Their game doesn't translate as well.

conversely, you can see some big, fast players who have difficulty in the AHL play well at the NHL level because they're not trying to make everything happen with their minds. They're programmed to play within a system and not deviate from it.

There is 7.6 available when and if Buf doesn't come back. So, that should be at least buy some offensive or defensive help, hopefully D. Are there any other holes to fill? I sure think so.

We couldn't keep the Tanev, Chairot, Myers, because we couldn't afford them. There was no money to spend, no cap available.

So, using Laine for example, on a 2 year bridge and if Buf was here, we would be essentially capped out. So, using Laine for example, not saying he should be traded but do you think he is going to sign a long term deal for 6.75 per after his bridge is done? If the team is capped out now (or would be if Buf was here), where is another 2 - 3 million going to come from to sign him? What position suffers to sign Laine to a long term deal?

So, you have great 1st and second line talent and then nothing after. Which, is where we are at the moment.

Something has to give folks and Connor and Ehlers are long term deals.
- CharlieDog

Not sure what your point is exactly but of this teams top 6 forwards five of them are producing at what their pay rate is, they're getting paid market value for what they produce. Moving one of Ehlers, Laine or Connor for a dman would be really stupid, just filling one hole by digging another.

Laine's raise comes from Buff's deal expiring, it's pretty simple really, plus the the cap is gonna go up a bit.

A big problem that gets overlooked constantly in Jets land is the $7 million being spent on two 3rd line players that are producing at a 4th line rate.That money being spent on better defensemen or productive 3rd line players would be making a huge difference right now.

Not sure what your point is exactly but of this teams top 6 forwards five of them are producing at what their pay rate is, they're getting paid market value for what they produce. Moving one of Ehlers, Laine or Connor for a dman would be really stupid, just filling one hole by digging another.

Laine's raise comes from Buff's deal expiring, it's pretty simple really, plus the the cap is gonna go up a bit.

A big problem that gets overlooked constantly in Jets land is the $7 million being spent on two 3rd line players that are producing at a 4th line rate.That money being spent on better defensemen or productive 3rd line players would be making a huge difference right now.
- JetFuel

This is a great point!

Ross pointed out that we are almost in last place. Might as well tank this season if that is the case. Having either Byfield or Lafreniere on this roster would be nice. We could possibly even trade down if we won the lottery to pick-up a piece or two from another team to help us fill some of the holes on this roster.

I still though think its silly that a team, with four point per game players and a goalie that has a 920 save percentage is talking about tanking.

Not sure what your point is exactly but of this teams top 6 forwards five of them are producing at what their pay rate is, they're getting paid market value for what they produce. Moving one of Ehlers, Laine or Connor for a dman would be really stupid, just filling one hole by digging another.

Laine's raise comes from Buff's deal expiring, it's pretty simple really, plus the the cap is gonna go up a bit.

A big problem that gets overlooked constantly in Jets land is the $7 million being spent on two 3rd line players that are producing at a 4th line rate.That money being spent on better defensemen or productive 3rd line players would be making a huge difference right now.
- JetFuel

Who is saying to trade either of these three for D?

My point being is that we have great 1st and 2nd lines, and nothing much happening after that. In need a #2 C and other holes throughout the lineup including D.

Are you so sure the cap is going up and are you so sure that the mgmt. will spend up to the cap? Might not.

This roster is full of holes outside of the top two lines as you point out not considering the hole at 2C. Lots of needs and how to get the holes filled? Might have to trade a top asset is my point to fill some holes.

Just finished doing the draft lottery simulator 40 times. I had the Jets win the lottery twice. Once they moved up to second and once they moved to third. For the most part they stayed at #13. I also had 10 instances where they fell to #14.

We all might as well start doing that now as it looks like this team is falling.

Who is saying to trade either of these three for D?

My point being is that we have great 1st and 2nd lines, and nothing much happening after that. In need a #2 C and other holes throughout the lineup including D.

Are you so sure the cap is going up and are you so sure that the mgmt. will spend up to the cap? Might not.

This roster is full of holes outside of the top two lines as you point out not considering the hole at 2C. Lots of needs and how to get the holes filled? Might have to trade a top asset is my point to fill some holes.
- CharlieDog

Only way I trade any of those forwards is if its for a legit center. Defense is an overrated position and I think with proper coaching this team could do some damage.

Who is saying to trade either of these three for D?

My point being is that we have great 1st and 2nd lines, and nothing much happening after that. In need a #2 C and other holes throughout the lineup including D.

Are you so sure the cap is going up and are you so sure that the mgmt. will spend up to the cap? Might not.

This roster is full of holes outside of the top two lines as you point out not considering the hole at 2C. Lots of needs and how to get the holes filled? Might have to trade a top asset is my point to fill some holes.
- CharlieDog

Sorta got the sense that you were implying one of those guys need to go otherwise it creates problems elsewhere in the lineup, others have said it though and I don't agree with that sentiment.

Yeah the cap will go up, it always does a bit but I have no idea if management will spend to the cap or not.

Some of those holes can be filled internally, I have zero doubt we have some decent bottom 6 players and there's some hopefuls with the Moose, just need the coach to put the right guys on the right lines, acquiring better bottom 6 players shouldn't cost a lot of assets though if the Jets don't have what they need.

I agree top assets might need to be used to fill some holes, some are opposed to that though, just want to draft and develop to fill those holes.

Only way I trade any of those forwards is if its for a legit center. Defense is an overrated position and I think with proper coaching this team could do some damage.
- TheUltimateJet

You think coaching will help Bitetto, Sbisa, Dahlstrom, Kilikov get better?

These guys are not Schultz caliber getting run out of Edmonton by the coach.

Wpg’s D is plain and simple “bad”. The proof is in the pudding in stats.

Copp is gonna be 26 years old in july.

He is what he is at this point.
- BINGO!

A: this organization has no idea what he is, as he’s never been given top 6 chances. Having said that, by your logic he’s already a top 6 forward.
B: Wheeler peaked at 30...

You think coaching will help Bitetto, Sbisa, Dahlstrom, Kilikov get better?

These guys are not Schultz caliber getting run out of Edmonton by the coach.

Wpg’s D is plain and simple “bad”. The proof is in the pudding in stats.
- CharlieDog

What’s the difference between Dahlstrom and Kempny?
What’s the difference between Kulikov and Hainsey?
What’s the difference between Sbisa and Djoos?
What’s the difference between Bitetto and Dumoulin?

Once you answer these questions I will answer yours?

Also, not to say I told you so, I was right about the “Big Dog”, this whole time.

A: this organization has no idea what he is, as he’s never been given top 6 chances. Having said that, by your logic he’s already a top 6 forward.
B: Wheeler peaked at 30...
- Rexypoo

Wheeler is an anomaly. If you base all your assumptions on anomalies then you are an anomaly!