I really hate when people make comments like this (not specifically directed at you just in general) about Gilbert and guys who bring some grit to their game.

No one (or I should say MOST people) is saying that we need a pure goon on the team or that bringing that element to the team is this amazing key that will unlock greatness from them, but it is an element that is good to have be apart of your team from say your 6/7th Defensemen or 12/13th forward.

Is it more important that having better skill and role players? Or better defensemen who play the position well? Definitely not, but it's an element to a team that helps you win. Having a guy who can throw his weight around, sometimes at your best player (something we should be all too familiar with since teams have been doing it to us for YEARS), does and can help. No one is saying that Gilbert is gonna light the world up, but are we forgetting that besides one game last year that this is his first chance at playing in the NHL? Let the kid play and grow and learn from his mistakes. No one thinks that he's gonna set the world on fire and take over Seabrook and play Top 4 minutes for this team, but he COULD be a piece to a team having future success. Let the kid play and stick up for his teammates and throw a big hit here or there
- Savetheembers33

Hello 33. I've got no issue with Gilbert standing up for his mates. I wish he'd learn to pick his spots better on when to fight and make the big hit. Mostly, I'd be fine with him if he was an adequate NHL defender; at preventing goals. He's not, so far.

All of this, but be prepared to have to defend your point of view to the lavendar sniffers on this board...there are more and more of them all the time
- Murph76

I asked you a question yesterday about fighting in hockey, in a respectful manner. You didn't respond. You posted on the subject and won't discuss it. Who is the lavender sniffer?

Hi, Wolfie. I suspect you're messing around a bit, but here's a list of no-trade clauses on the Hawks...

Kane, Toews, Keith- I would think most have no problem with these

Zach Smith - not given out by Stan.

Crawford- ends with his deal at year end, and I doubt they wanted to trade him along the way.

Seabrook- we both love the guy and hate his contract. But the reason he's untradeable is about his play and now injuries rather than the ntc. .

This isn't the issue it has been played up to be.
- mohel

My main issue is really this.....

If you think about contract talks as a simplified 3 main things....

1. Term......younger guys want shorter terms if they want to bank themselves to cash in again and again OVER time OR don't trust the current organization to win or an ideal market for them personally. Depending upon where they are drafted.

2. AAV....cap hit.....some guys will give up term for higher AAV and vice versa

3. NTC/NMC...then you have this, where if they give up 1 they don't want to constantly be worried about moving families, etc....most of these usually expire closer to the end of the deal so teams can move players, etc.

If it's a win-win for player and team there is compromise. IF it's a HUGE star you really have no choice if you are a GM to not essentially lose 2 of 3, if not all 3.

Where I think some GMs fail is when you give in on 2/3 to the 2nd and 3rd tier players and essentially destroy the market for years to come. All these deals are used in arbritration and extensions and UFAs and agents do a damn good job leveraging these...some teams who are desperate will over pay.....look at Campbell. Talon wasn't going to lose him to anyone and overpaid...as Hawks weren't a DESTINATION for UFAs, and then you flash forward to a guy like Richards who takes a team friendly deal with a chance to win a cup.

So if you look at this team as is and take off the Hawks fan hat as a group (not just you)

Bowman won on Keith and Kane.....huge
Lost miserably on Seabrook
Jury still out on Toews, but trending to a loss

I think it's important that if Bowman is still GM 1/1/22 and starts talking extension if Toews continues to trend downward he can't make the same mistake with Toews as he did with Seabrook and pay for past success. Regardless of sentimental value, captain, etc......IMO, Kane hands down deserves more then 19 unless Kane says otherwise. Won't know until we get there, but that's why I never get upset as to why this guy or that guy doesn't take a "hometown discount" why should they? People point to other dollars available in big cities like ads, etc.....but if Duncan Keith walked down my street here in Plainfield IL during the rush of halloween I bet 75% of the people wouldn't recognize him. Scotty Bowman is arguably the greatest coach in the history of hockey and that day in August at midway barely anyone recognized him. Hockey is still a very niche sport in the USA vs say NBA or NFL...

As far as Saad goes.....same as Seabrook.....I don't hate the player. I think both are good/great players at some point in their career, but I don't like their deals and when people say....this team needs Saad no matter what. How do you get in cap hell? Paying guys large % of your team cap larger AAV then the ROI requires. Yes I know Bowman didn't pay Saad, and that's why Saad was traded to Columbus, and very highly likely he gets traded again because the ROI on what his agent will want Bowman can't/shouldn't justify baring a major jump in Saad's game and consistency. He does a TON of things very well, but he's not a consistent enough scorer to play top 6 minutes on a cup team....and yes I know Saad did for the Hawks back in 2013/2015 but he wasn't a 6+ cap hit back then.....

I just don't see how Saad at worst doesn't get Hayes money.....he is in the same realm of Hayes...not saying hes better or worse, but the comp will be there and his agent will push for at least that deal with the nmc if not more AAV....

Even going back a couple of seasons - the Hawks never had more than othe good teams in the league.

If it weren’t for Seabrook’s contract, the issue wouldn’t be played up at all.
- StLBravesFan

id have to go back over the years.....I recall it being higher then other teams say the Kings or Penguins who also had multiple championship runs.

I just dont' like NMCs outside of legit stars.....it limits the ability of the team to move on and maximize the return for the player.

I asked you a question yesterday about fighting in hockey, in a respectful manner. You didn't respond. You posted on the subject and won't discuss it. Who is the lavender sniffer?
- mohel

Hi Mohel,

My apologies, yes...I have watched Olympic hockey before and do enjoy it but I haven't in some time. I'm definitely not saying you're a lavender sniffer and it would be uncalled for to name names. They know who they are.

I really hate when people make comments like this (not specifically directed at you just in general) about Gilbert and guys who bring some grit to their game.

No one (or I should say MOST people) is saying that we need a pure goon on the team or that bringing that element to the team is this amazing key that will unlock greatness from them, but it is an element that is good to have be apart of your team from say your 6/7th Defensemen or 12/13th forward.

Is it more important that having better skill and role players? Or better defensemen who play the position well? Definitely not, but it's an element to a team that helps you win. Having a guy who can throw his weight around, sometimes at your best player (something we should be all too familiar with since teams have been doing it to us for YEARS), does and can help. No one is saying that Gilbert is gonna light the world up, but are we forgetting that besides one game last year that this is his first chance at playing in the NHL? Let the kid play and grow and learn from his mistakes. No one thinks that he's gonna set the world on fire and take over Seabrook and play Top 4 minutes for this team, but he COULD be a piece to a team having future success. Let the kid play and stick up for his teammates and throw a big hit here or there
- Savetheembers33

Big guys with size and skill are unicorns.

Playoff time is a different animal but I'll say this.....some series you can see teams get absolutely run down vs the draw and the opponent. Hawks did a very good job staying healthy vs heavier teams in their cup runs.....Vancouver, STL come to mind.

They had some guys who could force panic etc on the d man in fear of being hit which lead to goals....but then you think back to 2015 vs Anaheim and the Ducks hell bent on physically beating on the Hawks and look what happened.....the Ducks lost.

I love physical hockey as much as the next guy. My favorite non Hawk is Ovechkin. However running around and hitting guys and getting out of position in today's game is exploited because of the fact that everyone who dresses is faster and more skilled on the 3rd and 4th lines then were 5-10 years ago.

No....you can't have a team of "smurfs" but you can win with smaller guys playing larger like a Kruger, or Bolland for starters. Especially come playoff time when it's a "heavier" game and officials would rather teams settle it then calling the tick tack penalties they call in the regular season.

If Gilbert can play and be an effective TRUE defenseman....then by all means, but if he's a liability like Gus then you have to move on.

The term is going to matter just as much as the cap hit for Strome. Honestly he could be anywhere from the 5-8M range for his next deal...depending on how long he signs for it. If it's a two to three year deal you're probably looking in the high end 5 to 6.5ish M a year deal. If it's four plus years then you're definitely talking over 7M+ to sign him.

I kinda feel we're gonna see matching three year 6.4M deals for Strome and Cat unless they can convince him to take less
- Savetheembers33

I look for a contract like Dinky, lower AAV, kicker in 3rd year to ratchet up min. qualifying offer.

Something Tanner wrote, but actually really resonates with me...
- Slofire94

Why does David Poile still have a job? ) cups in 35 years. Why does Doug Wilson still have a job? How would you like to have San Jose's contracts on defense?

Hi Mohel,

My apologies, yes...I have watched Olympic hockey before and do enjoy it but I haven't in some time. I'm definitely not saying you're a lavender sniffer and it would be uncalled for to name names. They know who they are.
- Murph76

I didn't watch the last time when the pros weren't there. When I have watched, it's been some of the best, most intense hockey I've seen. Still very physical, just without the fighting. I don't want that removed from hockey, but I don't need a John Scott taking a spot on the roster just to fight the other team's John Scott. I understand other don't see it that way.

Have a good one, Murph.

Perlini has played 224 NHL games. He's 23.

Nylander has played 59 NHL games (40 this season). He's 21.

Same?
- mohel

Contract and money situation much different as well.

All of this, but be prepared to have to defend your point of view to the lavendar sniffers on this board...there are more and more of them all the time
- Murph76

Gus's advanced stats look better than Gilbert, but actually watching them play, I don't think anyone is going to say that Gus is better defensively than Gilbert. As has been stated ad nauseum on this board, stats are a great TOOL when taken in context with the rest of the game. Otherwise you get statements like Jake Gardiner, and David Runblad are top 10 players.

The toughness and "grit" that Gilbert brings to this team are a welcome addition. I'm not specifically talking about fighting, I'm talking about actually hitting forwards with the puck, moving guys out from the crease, and making the corners hell to get out of. I'm sure the high end guys on the Hawks appreciate that he will stick up for them when on the ice as well. I think the Colorado game was his best one. He didn't let guys like Landeskog get away with extra hits. Gilbert is a much better player than John Scott, and I'm guessing with more experience he will improve even more.

I don't personally "like" fighting in hockey. I like hockey, but I understand that fighting has it's place in todays game. The league does a piss poor job of actually protecting players. the DOPS is a joke with the punishments they hand down. The fact that Lucic was never suspended an entire year for spearing a guy in the groin behind the play with clear video evidence is laughable. There is zero excuse for allowing that in the sport. So I have no qualms if a guy on our side takes the offenders to task for misdeeds done on the ice.

For those of you that read all of this. Congrats on having ton of patience!

I didn't watch the last time when the pros weren't there. When I have watched, it's been some of the best, most intense hockey I've seen. Still very physical, just without the fighting. I don't want that removed from hockey, but I don't need a John Scott taking a spot on the roster just to fight the other team's John Scott. I understand other don't see it that way.

Have a good one, Murph.
- mohel

I love Olympic hockey.....since being a USA citizen I don't get to see the juniors or rarely can I find a college hockey game on TV.....so when it's non pros...I'll still watch.

if The NHL were smart, they'd have no issue sending their players over...it promotes the sport and you can google the Oshie shootout vs Russia and all the bars and casual fans who were going bonkers that morning......yet in the short sidedness of the owners they instead fear injuries, lost revenue for tickets, the bs excuse of stopping the season and they lose a HUGE chance to market their game and their players.

call me crazy.....but Id have a tough time justifying winning a cup vs an Olympic gold medal if I were a Patrick kane….when the Hawks won in 2010 I saw a TON of kids playing street hockey in the streets that summer.....that was 1 market....now imagine the impact of the entire country if the USA were to win with NHL stars.....it would help eliminate the niche sport mantra and that's where the Owners continue to NOT GET IT

The Kings have Kopitar, Doughty and Dustin Brown wth NTC-NMC. BUT look at all the dead money they have in buyouts (Phaneuf), Terminations (Kovalchyk), and cap recapture (Mike Richards, which they got a break on) Next year they have $11 million in dead money.

And they have Quick tied up at $5.8 mil. until he is 37. Might as well be a no trade clause with that contract, or they are going to have to retain a large portion of that if they can move him.

Big guys with size and skill are unicorns.

Playoff time is a different animal but I'll say this.....some series you can see teams get absolutely run down vs the draw and the opponent. Hawks did a very good job staying healthy vs heavier teams in their cup runs.....Vancouver, STL come to mind.

They had some guys who could force panic etc on the d man in fear of being hit which lead to goals....but then you think back to 2015 vs Anaheim and the Ducks hell bent on physically beating on the Hawks and look what happened.....the Ducks lost.

I love physical hockey as much as the next guy. My favorite non Hawk is Ovechkin. However running around and hitting guys and getting out of position in today's game is exploited because of the fact that everyone who dresses is faster and more skilled on the 3rd and 4th lines then were 5-10 years ago.

No....you can't have a team of "smurfs" but you can win with smaller guys playing larger like a Kruger, or Bolland for starters. Especially come playoff time when it's a "heavier" game and officials would rather teams settle it then calling the tick tack penalties they call in the regular season.

If Gilbert can play and be an effective TRUE defenseman....then by all means, but if he's a liability like Gus then you have to move on.
- SteveRain

The old saying is it takes about 200 games in the show before you know what you have in an NHL defenseman. I remember 2 & 7 struggling before they became solid and the team wasn't very good while that process was taking place. I wouldn't sell short on Gilbert just yet. But I am curious as to what the other prospects will bring as they show up. Have to like Boqvist so far.

I didn't watch the last time when the pros weren't there. When I have watched, it's been some of the best, most intense hockey I've seen. Still very physical, just without the fighting. I don't want that removed from hockey, but I don't need a John Scott taking a spot on the roster just to fight the other team's John Scott. I understand other don't see it that way.

Have a good one, Murph.
- mohel

IMO....this is why the NFL and NBA do very well ratings...….

People get to know college players and who the Bears draft for the most part (no I never saw Cohen or Shaheen play for BFU) and same with NBA with college basketball being the main vehicle for the draft.

Outside of reading stuff online or watching the draft day breakdown....I have zero clue who 90% of these kids are unless I can recall them from the World Juniors 6 months earlier.

This is what kills hockey here....on top of the cost to play for most families....hard to get into a sport for most people if you never played it and don't have access/exposure to it beyond the pro level.

The old saying is it takes about 200 games in the show before you know what you have in an NHL defenseman. I remember 2 & 7 struggling before they became solid and the team wasn't very good while that process was taking place. I wouldn't sell short on Gilbert just yet. But I am curious as to what the other prospects will bring as they show up. Have to like Boqvist so far.
- 6628

Boqvist plays with some serious swag and confidence. He knows he has talent, but what I like about the kid is that he wants to be the best possible player that he can be. He has come so far in one year defensively, really enjoy watching his development.

The old saying is it takes about 200 games in the show before you know what you have in an NHL defenseman. I remember 2 & 7 struggling before they became solid and the team wasn't very good while that process was taking place. I wouldn't sell short on Gilbert just yet. But I am curious as to what the other prospects will bring as they show up. Have to like Boqvist so far.
- 6628

Agreed.....thus Uncle Barry's love for Trent yawney who helped develop them both....1. I hope the Hawks have that version of Yawney at Rockford and Chicago or else they may eat a bag of crap if they dump 1 of these kids and he flourishes elsewhere....and 2. Ole Uncle Barry still is angry Yawney isn't a head coach....that narrative and his hatred of Ben Christensen was priceless in his daily column at the Herald...…

Always put the beat guys Miles and Sassone in bad places when Uncle Barry would go off on his crusades......

Apropos of the discussion today:

Ben Pope‏ @BenPopeCST · 2h2 hours ago

Forgot to mention Koekkoek is in and Gilbert is out, also.

Colliton acknowledged yesterday that Gilbert has had a downturn lately but said that's normal for young players.

Full update:

Scott Powers‏Verified account @ByScottPowers · 2h2 hour

Crawford is starting. Highmore, Caggiula and Koekkoek are in and Sikura, Strome and Gilbert are out.

Full update:

Scott Powers‏Verified account @ByScottPowers · 2h2 hour

Crawford is starting. Highmore, Caggiula and Koekkoek are in and Sikura, Strome and Gilbert are out.
- Chunk

No Sikura? WTF?!?!?

No Sikura? WTF?!?!?
- mohel

He's not wrong.

Ben Pope‏ @BenPopeCST · 2h2 hours ago

Colliton: "Highmore has played really well. Thought he wasn't as good his last game. And Sikura started off really well his first couple games and then he tailed off too. So that's part of the rotation of the lineup. It's good to have lots of guys moving through and competition."

He's not wrong.

Ben Pope‏ @BenPopeCST · 2h2 hours ago

Colliton: "Highmore has played really well. Thought he wasn't as good his last game. And Sikura started off really well his first couple games and then he tailed off too. So that's part of the rotation of the lineup. It's good to have lots of guys moving through and competition."
- Chunk

Just messing around with the Sikura thing. I imagine the coach and FO have access to info I don't, so I'm not wetting the bed about roster decisions.

Re: Ebony Raptor and how you add a 4th right handed defender...


I recall you mentioned with Murphy, Seabrook and promoted Adam Boqvist how can they add another RD....

Well, Boqvist has been asked to play both sides at various lower levels, and even though I think you want to make things as simply aMitchell's baptism, so he probably start as a RD but can play both sides well...

This fourth line is mean. They should be tough to play against.

Highmore - Smith - Quenneville

I usually don't, you can go back and look how many times I've posted on here since 2011 even though I read the site daily. But Ogi is a homegrown troll and usually only interjects to disrespect people so I felt compelled to say something. Fair enough?
- Murph76

Your timeline is a bit off.