Seriously though - what was he supposed to do on that play?
He's not the roadrunner that can make up that huge distance gap in a split second.
- MaximusAurelius

*this is wrong on so many levels*

I forgot about Andersson.
and Jenner they'll keep as well.

Not sure who will be their trade pieces; maybe Savard ? Dubinsky I wouldn't mind on the Leafs at trade deadline - 3rd/4th line C depth and can play the PK (at least he did in the past, haven't really watched him closely last couple of years).
I don't think they'll trade their captain.
so they don't have a lot of trade assets - and not a lot of picks going forward?
- MaximusAurelius

Other than their 2nd and 3rd round picks this year they have all of theirs. First round picks this year and the next two as well. They can be in good shape in a few years.

I get it, the target moves to suit the narrative.

If the Leafs won the same thing would happen. Well they changed.

but you would have been convinced you cant win with Ovechkin or RoR also if they were leafs at age 21
- senstroll

Don't forget Kessel! Can't win with him either.

Yes they had Malkin and Crosby to lean on but to be fair, they don't win in 2015 without his Conn Smythe performance.

Other than their 2nd and 3rd round picks this year they have all of theirs. First round picks this year and the next two as well. They can be in good shape in a few years.
- Aaron_85

that's better than i thought - i guessed they didn't have their 1st this year.

Seriously though - what was he supposed to do on that play?
He's not the roadrunner that can make up that huge distance gap in a split second.
- MaximusAurelius

I think the point is that he likely had time before he's in screen to keep skating hard and watch that player. He wasn't even close to coming back to the front of the net to even try.

By the end of it I agree with you. He just didn't try when he was supposed to.

When your 1st and 4th best paid players (in AAV) are playing soft - it has an impact on the mentality of the rest of the team - but as well on the perception of how soft Leafs play. You cannot have 2 top paid guys play so soft.

I think apart from #2 and #3 - there are a few other guys that don't play soft (Moore, Hyman, Mikheyev, Kapanen, Johnsson to some extent although he's really good mainly at getting hit..).
- MaximusAurelius

Muzzin? Holl? Dermott and Kerfoot are pretty feisty. Engvall.

agreed.

~doug wilson
- Tumbleweed

sharks are a perfect example of how hard it is to win lol

https://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/voting-2009.html#all-selke-stats

Dude, you are wrong.

Look who had votes. Travis (frank)ing Moen, both Sedin’s

He didn’t get one (frank)ing vote.

None. He wasn’t this complete player you are trying to say he was. It wasn’t hard to get a selme vote as a 100 point player. Ovi has 3.

He was an extremely talented offensive player.

He has 750 votes last year...he improved leaps and bounds in his own end since then
- Santo_44

And yet he was still a far more complete player than Jesus Matthews. Again, I know you love Matthews, but this is team wide. It isn't just him. They are a soft team.

I get it, the target moves to suit the narrative.

If the Leafs won the same thing would happen. Well they changed.

but you would have been convinced you cant win with Ovechkin or RoR also if they were leafs at age 21
- senstroll

It's not about Matthews alone. The team is soft, and plays soft. Look at all the nasty buggers Washington added over the years to go along with guys changing themselves.

ROR was a greedy puke when he was young. But again, he didn't win the cup, the St. Louis Blues did. They play the right way, the Leafs don't.

sharks are a perfect example of how hard it is to win lol
- daeth

maybe marleau would have put them over the top in 2018 lol

maybe marleau would have put them over the top in 2018 lol
- Tumbleweed

they probably should've sold off some assets once everyone hit 40

When your 1st and 4th best paid players (in AAV) are playing soft - it has an impact on the mentality of the rest of the team - but as well on the perception of how soft Leafs play. You cannot have 2 top paid guys play so soft.

I think apart from #2 and #3 - there are a few other guys that don't play soft (Moore, Hyman, Mikheyev, Kapanen, Johnsson to some extent although he's really good mainly at getting hit..).
- MaximusAurelius

I agree that the top paid guys are leaders on the team. Their impact is obviously bigger. The team needs a culture change. Can it happen from within before guys are UFA or does it need to happen by bringing in different guys?

And yet he was still a far more complete player than Jesus Matthews. Again, I know you love Matthews, but this is team wide. It isn't just him. They are a soft team.
- aminnes

He wasn’t, you are just saying that with no argument.

I provide you facts and you try to dodge it. Ovi was given votes...you know, the guy pegged as a one dimensional player?

He had zero votes his 1st 4 years of his career and he had 750 votes last year. He improved leaps and bounds over 7 years.

And the Pens didn’t need him to be this awesome 200 foot player to win a cup like you are claiming he needs to be.

He’s 22, time to pump the breaks.

Don't forget Kessel! Can't win with him either.

Yes they had Malkin and Crosby to lean on but to be fair, they don't win in 2015 without his Conn Smythe performance.
- Aaron_85

If the Leafs had had Crosby and Malkin they could have won with Kessel. The problem at the time is they were spending cap space on Kessel Phaneuf etc. So having Kessel as your number one forward means you can't win a cup. Two completely different situations.

they probably should've sold off some assets once everyone hit 40
- daeth

that's so crazy it just might of worked

that's so crazy it just might of worked
- Tumbleweed

perhaps they have stats that show selling at 50 is better

Hall is a coyote

Hall is a coyote
- Aaron_85

Sweet.

My fantasy team players Kessel and Scmaltz will be happy.

If the Leafs had had Crosby and Malkin they could have won with Kessel. The problem at the time is they were spending cap space on Kessel Phaneuf etc. So having Kessel as your number one forward means you can't win a cup. Two completely different situations.
- aminnes

That wasnt the conversation. The conversation I heard repeatedly was he was a bum and lazy and no team could win with him ever.

He wasn’t, you are just saying that with no argument.

I provide you facts and you try to dodge it. Ovi was given votes...you know, the guy pegged as a one dimensional player?

He had zero votes his 1st 4 years of his career and he had 750 votes last year. He improved leaps and bounds over 7 years.

And the Pens didn’t need him to be this awesome 200 foot player to win a cup like you are claiming he needs to be.

He’s 22, time to pump the breaks.
- Santo_44

You provided one subjective voting as your 'fact'. Crosby was too busy getting Hart Trophy votes and winning the scoring title.

Either way, Matthews along with everyone else on this team better buck up or this will be another wasted year.

You provided one subjective voting as your 'fact'. Crosby was too busy getting Hart Trophy votes and winning the scoring title.

Either way, Matthews along with everyone else on this team better buck up or this will be another wasted year.
- aminnes

This has nothing to do with the defensive end.

And what I have provided is a (frank) ton more than you have provided...which is zilch.

Hall is a coyote
- Aaron_85

Good. I didn't want him to end up on the Avs.

Good. I didn't want him to end up on the Avs.
- Monkeypunk

Nobody did. If he was I would think they would be top contenders.

1st round pick, 3rd with conditions to be a 2nd or 1st, markley, schnarr and bahl.

This has nothing to do with the defensive end.

And what I have provided is a (frank) ton more than you have provided...which is zilch.
- Santo_44

A single subjective vote. Stop with this nonsense. You know as well as I do that playing this style isn't working. It doesn't draw penalties and as the original poster said it causes giveaways a perimeter play.

Kadri drew penalties because he went to the dirty areas. It's obvious what the problem with this team is.

Nobody did. If he was I would think they would be top contenders.

1st round pick, 3rd with conditions to be a 2nd or 1st, markley, schnarr and bahl.
- Aaron_85

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Here are conditions on the one pick: stands as a third; if Hall re-signs OR Coyotes win a round, becomes a second; if BOTH happen, becomes a first.