Personally i don't worry about support players (especially bottom 6) and how many points they get.

I've always, always advocated for Hyman with Matthews and Nylander. Even when a lot hated Hyman. I don't care if he gets 30 points a season on that line.
- walshyleafsfan

Remember when Steve Simmons said Matthews didn't want to play on a line with Hyman, and then the year after that, he says Matthews doesn't want Kapanen on his line..

Wonder who Matthews will not want on his line next year?

Yeah so much more mature than that wussy Matthews. His first Stanley cup appearance he sat because of a sore pinky. What a wuss.
- Santo_44

If Crosby is a wuss, Matthews should be on a soccer field.

Matthews is getting paid like he is like them at 22 though.
- aminnes

He’s going to get paid the same at 26.

It’s not even half way into year one.

Somebody sue him, he hasn’t won a cup this year yet.

yes - yes

- 21peter

Still my favourite one.

"Ovi has so much sacrifice!"

yes - yes

- 21peter

If Crosby is a wuss, Matthews should be on a soccer field.
- aminnes

You are missing the point.

You are defining Crosby as a warrior because what he did in the Stanley cup finals.

Matthews hasn’t even been the 2nd round.

You aren’t giving him a chance to be a superstar.

They have a fairly ok roster, but it's quite slim after their top3 guys..
Not sure why, but I've always hoped Columbus does well..

Jones
Dubois
Werenski are their best 3 guys by far.

I think the biggest disappointment for them has been Murray - 2012 was a tough draft though (Burkie might have been right at the end, although I personally think Lindholm, Forsberg and Vasilevskiy would go before Rielly in a redraft).

I think it will take them another 3 years at least though before they'll make the playoffs again.
- MaximusAurelius

I agree on the Murray thing but we will see how they fair in the next year or so. They could be in the wild card conversation in the next year or so.

If they think they are two years away then they should look to trade some guys now who are aging.

He’s going to get paid the same at 26.

It’s not even half way into year one.

Somebody sue him, he hasn’t won a cup this year yet.
- Santo_44

No one is saying that. We are saying he - and many others on this team - simply don't play the right way to win. They know it, we know it. Everybody knows it.

No one is saying that. We are saying he - and many others on this team - simply don't play the right way to win. They know it, we know it. Everybody knows it.
- aminnes

What we don't know is how they will play when they are 24-25? Maybe, they'll have changed their game?

Nobody plays the right way to win until they win, then the way they play is the only way you can play if you want to win

You are missing the point.

You are defining Crosby as a warrior because what he did in the Stanley cup finals.

Matthews hasn’t even been the 2nd round.

You aren’t giving him a chance to be a superstar.
- Santo_44

No. You are missing the original point that you were responding to. You didn't start the convo. The point being made is that game in game out, right up until the finals Crosby plays the right way. You are now suggesting Matthews will start playing the right way if they get out of the first round? It's chicken and the egg. Until these bums play the right way they won't be getting out of the first round. They may not even make the playoffs. They have to change the way they play, and Crosby is just one good example of many that they should look to.

Fun fact anime

The first year Crosby won a cup he didn’t get a single selke vote.

Ovi had 3....

So yeah, Crosby want a complete player at 21. He was an unreal talent.

But your spewing bull poop.

No. You are missing the original point that you were responding to. You didn't start the convo. The point being made is that game in game out, right up until the finals Crosby plays the right way. You are now suggesting Matthews will start playing the right way if they get out of the first round? It's chicken and the egg. Until these bums play the right way they won't be getting out of the first round. They may not even make the playoffs. They have to change the way they play, and Crosby is just one good example of many that they should look to.
- aminnes

Read my post above about selfie votes.

No one viewed Crosby as a 200 foot player.

He wasn’t.

He is now for sure and that’s clouding your judgment.

What we don't know is how they will play when they are 24-25? Maybe, they'll have changed their game?
- PatC80

I don't afford them those excuses, and I doubt it. This is the 4th year of these guys.

Nobody plays the right way to win until they win, then the way they play is the only way you can play if you want to win
- daeth

the right way to win crowd is tiring.

Ovechkin was never winning because he was a lazy one dimensional player, cant wiin with Kessel, RoR was another one ... one thing I know about the right way to win crowd is they really dont know poop...like the rest of us

Read my post above about selfie votes.

No one viewed Crosby as a 200 foot player.

He wasn’t.

He is now for sure and that’s clouding your judgment.
- Santo_44

No. That just means there were better defensive players in the league, it does not mean he wasn't a 200 foot player simply because there were other guys to vote for.

yes - yes

- 21peter

You can't win unless you play as a team 101 - Taught by Professor Ovechkin

I agree on the Murray thing but we will see how they fair in the next year or so. They could be in the wild card conversation in the next year or so.

If they think they are two years away then they should look to trade some guys now who are aging.
- Aaron_85

I forgot about Andersson.
and Jenner they'll keep as well.

Not sure who will be their trade pieces; maybe Savard ? Dubinsky I wouldn't mind on the Leafs at trade deadline - 3rd/4th line C depth and can play the PK (at least he did in the past, haven't really watched him closely last couple of years).
I don't think they'll trade their captain.
so they don't have a lot of trade assets - and not a lot of picks going forward?

the right way to win crowd is tiring.

Ovechkin was never winning because he was a lazy one dimensional player, cant wiin with Kessel, RoR was another one ... one thing I know about the right way to win crowd is they really dont know poop...like the rest of us
- senstroll

ROR changed his attitude. He literally talked about it before leaving Buffalo. Ovi changed his attitude, has talked about it many times. He still has moments where he plays like a bum. Kessel on a stacked team as complimentary player an work, and he goes into the corners. The Leafs are full of guys that play soft. It isn't one or two guys.

You can't win unless you play as a team 101 - Taught by Professor Ovechkin
- RickJames77

Seriously though - what was he supposed to do on that play?
He's not the roadrunner that can make up that huge distance gap in a split second.

No. That just means there were better defensive players in the league, it does not mean he wasn't a 200 foot player simply because there were other guys to vote for.
- aminnes

https://www.hockey-refere...2009.html#all-selke-stats

Dude, you are wrong.

Look who had votes. Travis (frank)ing Moen, both Sedin’s

He didn’t get one (frank)ing vote.

None. He wasn’t this complete player you are trying to say he was. It wasn’t hard to get a selme vote as a 100 point player. Ovi has 3.

He was an extremely talented offensive player.

He has 750 votes last year...he improved leaps and bounds in his own end since then

the right way to win crowd is tiring.

Ovechkin was never winning because he was a lazy one dimensional player, cant wiin with Kessel, RoR was another one ... one thing I know about the right way to win crowd is they really dont know poop...like the rest of us
- senstroll

The caps are a perfect example of why you stick with your core when it's beastly. They finally won in a year where if we are honest they weren't even the best versions of themselves. They had better teams in the past but didn't get hot at the right time.

ROR changed his attitude. He literally talked about it before leaving Buffalo. Ovi changed his attitude, has talked about it many times. He still has moments where he plays like a bum. Kessel on a stacked team as complimentary player an work, and he goes into the corners. The Leafs are full of guys that play soft. It isn't one or two guys.
- aminnes

I get it, the target moves to suit the narrative.

If the Leafs won the same thing would happen. Well they changed.

but you would have been convinced you cant win with Ovechkin or RoR also if they were leafs at age 21

ROR changed his attitude. He literally talked about it before leaving Buffalo. Ovi changed his attitude, has talked about it many times. He still has moments where he plays like a bum. Kessel on a stacked team as complimentary player an work, and he goes into the corners. The Leafs are full of guys that play soft. It isn't one or two guys.
- aminnes

When your 1st and 4th best paid players (in AAV) are playing soft - it has an impact on the mentality of the rest of the team - but as well on the perception of how soft Leafs play. You cannot have 2 top paid guys play so soft.

I think apart from #2 and #3 - there are a few other guys that don't play soft (Moore, Hyman, Mikheyev, Kapanen, Johnsson to some extent although he's really good mainly at getting hit..).

The caps are a perfect example of why you stick with your core when it's beastly. They finally won in a year where if we are honest they weren't even the best versions of themselves. They had better teams in the past but didn't get hot at the right time.
- daeth

agreed.

~doug wilson