I wonder if Dubas has the guts to trade "his guy". I believe he was the one who wanted Kapanen in the Kessel deal.

He would be the first guy I would shop.
- Aaron_85

I think I'd part with Johnsson before I'd part with Kapanen. Kap has flexibility on the penalty kill and makes a 3rd line very dangerous. Johnsson is a very good player, but there might be a better fit on the first line with Matthews & Nylander instead of him (like Mikheyev maybe?).

If Matthews signed the same cap% he got now in 2008 when Ovy signed his deal it would be 8.2mil

if that makes it easier to understand
- senstroll

Or if Ovechkin signed now at the rate he's paid, it would be $13.7m.

I wonder if Dubas has the guts to trade "his guy". I believe he was the one who wanted Kapanen in the Kessel deal.

He would be the first guy I would shop.
- Aaron_85

And just so we’re clear we don’t want him.

Given that I am a big fan of Crosby, I watched all of their playoff games in 2015 & 2016 when I could. I am aware of what Pittsburgh offered. Bonino is not a heavy player. He can grind okay. I would say out of the players you list, Kunitz is probably
the "heaviest" type.

Crosby is a dog on the puck, and it's why he is still one of the world's best players. For the Leafs to be successful, the acquisition of a piece of grit or two isn't what's needed. For the Leafs to be successful, they need their star players to take the next step in terms of competing. They need to learn to pay the price. Because unless the stars are also committed and paying the price, having a few extra "gritty" third and fourth liners isn't going to change the complexion of the team.
- Monkeypunk

Right. All teams follow the leaders. The 4th line guy is going to block a shot because he saw Matthews do it in the dying seconds to win a playoff series clinching game.

I think I'd part with Johnsson before I'd part with Kapanen. Kap has flexibility on the penalty kill and makes a 3rd line very dangerous. Johnsson is a very good player, but there might be a better fit on the first line with Matthews & Nylander instead of him (like Mikheyev maybe?).
- Monkeypunk

I understand what you're saying. I just don't know if he's needed on the 3rd line for sure.

I guess you could just say its 6 one way and half a dozen the other. Problem is they don't make a lot of money so it's dollars in and dollars out. Difficult to make enough room to bring in a back up tendy AND a dman. (If that's what they wanted to do)

Or if Ovechkin signed now at the rate he's paid, it would be $13.7m.
- Monkeypunk

the part that you cant really compare is the length (hehe).
Ovi 13 years to 5.

Ovi left 10s of millions on the table. But the landscape and metality has changed drastically in 10 years. Agents and players are smarter and like Baseball are looking to maximize players earnings not sign a 12 year safe deal

If Matthews signed the same cap% he got now in 2008 when Ovy signed his deal it would be 8.2mil

if that makes it easier to understand
- senstroll

The other easier way to understand is how many far superior players are making less money. Pasternak, Eichel, Rantanen, McKinnon, Draisitl, et al.

The point is, AM34 has been an enormous disappointment this year. All the Leafs struggles mirror his low (for his cost) production

The other easier way to understand is how many far superior players are making less money. Pasternak, Eichel, Rantanen, McKinnon, Draisitl, et al.

The point is, AM34 has been an enormous disappointment this year. All the Leafs struggles mirror his low (for his cost) production
- ThundernLightning

When he wants to be he's awesome. The trick is how do we make him interested more often?

There was a play last night in the 1st i think? where he let someone just skate right past him towards the corner and he was the last guy back. He then realized and hustled to retain it, but his first reaction was to just coast and do a Jake Gardiner to let the opposing player get there first

the part that you cant really compare is the length (hehe).
Ovi 13 years to 5.

Ovi left 10s of millions on the table. But the landscape and metality has changed drastically in 10 years. Agents and players are smarter and like Baseball are looking to maximize players earnings not sign a 12 year safe deal
- senstroll

Absolutely. I will say that for the most part I have liked what Dubas has done, and from week-to-week the Kadri trade looks bad, great, horrible, good . . .so it's hard to judge it bit by bit. Kerfoot, until he was hurt, was looking like a steal. I'm hoping he returns to form.

If Tyson Barrie settles in and plays the way he did in Colorado, then it's a good trade for both of us. We're almost 40% into the season, so . . . any day now, Barrie.

What I have not liked is his and his management team's valuation of the players. Matthews may ultimately be an $11.6m guy. But if he isn't today, then you need to scale the contract accordingly. Similarly with Marner. I think both of those contracts were well in excess of the fair value - especially considering term. That $3m or so would go a long way towards our backup situation - or flexibility on the blueline which could have led to better options than Cody Ceci.

ovi's 1st 4 years. stop pretending matthews is in the same league.

2005-06 NHL Calder Memorial Trophy
2007-08 NHL Art Ross Trophy
2007-08 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
2007-08 NHL Maurice "Rocket" Richard Trophy
2007-08 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy
2008-09 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
2008-09 NHL Maurice "Rocket" Richard Trophy
2008-09 NHL Ted Lindsay Award
- Tumbleweed

Yeah but he was a lazy russian who couldn't lead his team to greatness.

So selfish with all those goals....

You like to ignore things
- Santo_44

like goal scoring during matthews 1st 3 seasons vs. ovehckin being essentially the same?

1 2019-20 2.81
2 2018-19 2.81
3 2017-18 2.78
4 2016-17 2.59
5 2015-16 2.51
6 2014-15 2.52
7 2013-14 2.56
8 2012-13 2.54
9 2011-12 2.54
10 2010-11 2.61
11 2009-10 2.66
12 2008-09 2.73
13 2007-08 2.61
14 2006-07 2.77
15 2005-06 2.92

the part that you cant really compare is the length (hehe).
Ovi 13 years to 5.

Ovi left 10s of millions on the table. But the landscape and metality has changed drastically in 10 years. Agents and players are smarter and like Baseball are looking to maximize players earnings not sign a 12 year safe deal
- senstroll

exactly. 13 vs 5 makes then not comparable.

matthews is not mcdavid. he should be paid a hair under mcdavid (when comparing a 5 year deal to 8).

he should have been slightly higher than eichel. which is 10.5M on a 8-year deal.

The other easier way to understand is how many far superior players are making less money. Pasternak, Eichel, Rantanen, McKinnon, Draisitl, et al.

The point is, AM34 has been an enormous disappointment this year. All the Leafs struggles mirror his low (for his cost) production
- ThundernLightning

Not everyone was better. I don't think Eichel has been better his entire career than Matthews.

Also, I think we as fans shouldn't be picking apart each game. We will all agree Matthews was a great player at the end of his contract and worth his dollars.

like goal scoring in the during matthews 1st 3 seasons vs. ovehckin being essentially the same?

1 2019-20 2.81
2 2018-19 2.81
3 2017-18 2.78
4 2016-17 2.59
5 2015-16 2.51
6 2014-15 2.52
7 2013-14 2.56
8 2012-13 2.54
9 2011-12 2.54
10 2010-11 2.61
11 2009-10 2.66
12 2008-09 2.73
13 2007-08 2.61
14 2006-07 2.77
15 2005-06 2.92
- Tumbleweed

did mackinnon take a discount compared to nylander given goal scoring was lower when he signed his contract?

exactly. 13 vs 5 makes then not comparable.

matthews is not mcdavid. he should be paid a hair under mcdavid (when comparing a 5 year deal to 8).

he should have been slightly higher than eichel. which is 10.5M on a 8-year deal.
- Tumbleweed

But he isn't and that's a slight against Dubas. It is done though and nothing we can do about it.

To reinforce your point: Most teams were blindsided when the cap number was droppped by $1.5m over estimated.

Dallas has a 22 man roster and $815 dollars in cap space.
Florida has a 22 man roster and $500k in cap space.
Vancouver has a 22 man roster and $30k in cap space.
Chicago 22 / $240k
Calgary has 23 men, but has $19k; other teams with 23 players and on the cap brink:
St. Louis @ $20k
Philadelphia @ $57k
Vegas @ $103k
San Jose @ $399
Edmonton @ $680k.

You also have Washington with 21 players and $748k
Pittsburgh with 21 players and $1.4m.

Buffalo, Boston, Arizona and Toronto are all projected to have no space.

That's 16 teams with little to no wiggle room around the cap.
- Monkeypunk

the cap is always a couple million lower than what bettman says in december.

it's nothing new. if gm's don't get that, it's on them.

and just because other teams suck at cap management, doesn't mean we need to.

the cap is always a couple million lower than what bettman says in december.

it's nothing new. if gm's don't get that, it's on them.

and just because other teams suck at cap management, doesn't mean we need to.
- Tumbleweed

I think the idea is that most teams operate at or near the cap. Especially those who are in it to win it.

Given that I am a big fan of Crosby, I watched all of their playoff games in 2015 & 2016 when I could. I am aware of what Pittsburgh offered. Bonino is not a heavy player. He can grind okay. I would say out of the players you list, Kunitz is probably
the "heaviest" type.

Crosby is a dog on the puck, and it's why he is still one of the world's best players. For the Leafs to be successful, the acquisition of a piece of grit or two isn't what's needed. For the Leafs to be successful, they need their star players to take the next step in terms of competing. They need to learn to pay the price. Because unless the stars are also committed and paying the price, having a few extra "gritty" third and fourth liners isn't going to change the complexion of the team.
- Monkeypunk

If possible, of course that helps. BUT, some star players are one-dimensional and CANNOT or WILL NOT be able to do that. As a Hawk fan I learned years ago Patty Kane was not going to be anything more than a world class floater, scorer, playmaker, who plays on the parimeter. And you can have 2-3-4 players like that...IF...you have several others (Toews, Buffer, Brouwer, Bolland, Saad, etc) that WILL do that type of work. I f you reallly think Nylander, matthews, etc can be taught to grind, dig on the boards, etc. Well great...learn boys! But, I think of Toronto's star forwards few if any will develop into THAT type of player...so....go add a guy or two. Or, live with the consequences....which seems what Dumas is apt to do.

did mackinnon take a discount compared to nylander given goal scoring was lower when he signed his contract?
- Tumbleweed

Nathan MacKinnon signed his contract on July 8, 2016.

He had:

82gp-24g-39a-63pts
64gp-14g-24a-38pts
72gp-21g-31a-52pts

218gp - 59g - 94a - 153pts

MacKinnon signed for 8.63% of the cap.

Nylander had:

22gp-6g-7a-13pts
81gp-22g-39a-61pts
82gp-20g-41a-61pts

185gp - 48g - 87a - 135pts

Nylander signed for 8.76% of the cap.

I've always liked MacKinnon and expected him to be the player he is today, but based on performance-to-date at the time of their respective contracts being signed, they're pretty equivalent.

I think the idea is that most teams operate at or near the cap. Especially those who are in it to win it.
- Aaron_85

no other team has as many near league minimum players.

one injury exposes the lack of depth. spezza is ahl along with his linemates. what a joke of game-winning goal last night.

The other easier way to understand is how many far superior players are making less money. Pasternak, Eichel, Rantanen, McKinnon, Draisitl, et al.

The point is, AM34 has been an enormous disappointment this year. All the Leafs struggles mirror his low (for his cost) production
- ThundernLightning

lol

sure thing man

Nathan MacKinnon signed his contract on July 8, 2016.

He had:

82gp-24g-39a-63pts
64gp-14g-24a-38pts
72gp-21g-31a-52pts

218gp - 59g - 94a - 153pts

MacKinnon signed for 8.63% of the cap.

Nylander had:

22gp-6g-7a-13pts
81gp-22g-39a-61pts
82gp-20g-41a-61pts

185gp - 48g - 87a - 135pts

Nylander signed for 8.76% of the cap.

I've always liked MacKinnon and expected him to be the player he is today, but based on performance-to-date at the time of their respective contracts being signed, they're pretty equivalent.
- Monkeypunk

makinnon's 7 years are at 8.63%

nylaner has 5 years at 8.76%. and according to santo, we should discount nylander's point totals by 10% given the increase in league scoring.
nylander's caphit should have been under 8% for 5 years.

let's not even get started on how dufus misread the market on marner; that's the worst of the 3.

edit: and nylander had a extra of development compared to mackinnon. so 7.5% max seems about right for 5 years.

Yeah but he was a lazy russian who couldn't lead his team to greatness.

So selfish with all those goals....
- Scabeh

he won the cup, so those things were never said for those 10 years the cap were a disappointment

he won the cup, so those things were never said for those 10 years the cap were a disappointment
- senstroll

That he had no heart or grit or anything?

Where's the gif of the xbox controller "controller unplugged".

Nathan MacKinnon signed his contract on July 8, 2016.

He had:

82gp-24g-39a-63pts
64gp-14g-24a-38pts
72gp-21g-31a-52pts

218gp - 59g - 94a - 153pts

MacKinnon signed for 8.63% of the cap.

Nylander had:

22gp-6g-7a-13pts
81gp-22g-39a-61pts
82gp-20g-41a-61pts

185gp - 48g - 87a - 135pts

Nylander signed for 8.76% of the cap.

I've always liked MacKinnon and expected him to be the player he is today, but based on performance-to-date at the time of their respective contracts being signed, they're pretty equivalent.
- Monkeypunk

at the time he signed his deal, Mackinnon was scoring like RNH the #1 pick