Ovechkin is one of the heaviest playing players in the game.
- AdamFrench

You're right. I shouldn't exclude him.

when Kuznetsov was 22 he was scoring 10 goals
when bergeron was 22 he was scoring 3 goals
when Guentzel was 22 he was scoring 20 goals
when Zibanejad was 22 he was scoring 20 goals

when Auston was 19 he was scoring 40 goals

stop acting like you are comparing the same things.
Austons comparable is basically Ovechkin and he signed for 9.5mil only 11 years ago
- senstroll

sure.

if you ignore that ovehkin was a +100 point player, not a one-trick pony. with multiple art ross, harts, ted lindsey and rocket richard awards.

and maybe the best goal scorer of all-time.

sure. ovechkin is his comparable. matthews shouldn't be making $10.5M over 8-years, as a slight premium to eichel.

What changes do you think they need to make?

I mean St. Louis won last year and play heavy. So do we have to model ourselves after them?

Washington won the year before, and played based on Kuznetsov's cocaine-fueled performance and Ovechkin's finish. Yes, Oshie and Wilson played heavy for them.

What about Pittsburgh in the two years prior? People talk about how heavy that team played, but that is complete BS. Their leader in penalties was Malkin. MALKIN! Their D-corps in the second year was Schultz, Cole, Maata, Hainsey, Dumoulin and Daley.

The year before Letang led the team in penalties in the playoffs. There's a guy who embodies grit. That year the D-corps was Letang, Dumoulin, Maata, Lovejoy, Daley/Schultz and Cole.

I look at Pittsburgh's blueline, and I think Rielly, Barrie, Muzzin, Holl, Dermott and Ceci is still better - even though I had to put Ceci there.
- Monkeypunk

I doubt most are considering penalties as grit and "heavy" that playoff require. Moreso, the willingness to go to the "dirty" areas along the boards and clogging the front of the net. Both on defense AND up front. The Pens had skill, sure...but watch some games. Crosby is a dog in the corners, he shys from nobody, Kunitz was a force, Bonino...there were many. Pens were much "heavier" than you lead on.
The present Leaf team has almost NOBODY like that. Hyman is one...he has the type of grit and fearlessness and "heavy" that Leafs need.
If you think floating on the parimeter and stickhandling and doing fancy possession work will win you a Cup. I will check with you in May. Cuz, dollars to donuts, if the Leafs don't get tougher. They will be golfing, not in Round 2 or 3.

I could be proven wrong, but I think Leafs don't need a blow-up, but rather a tweak of shipping out 1 or 2 "skill" guys and bringing in a couple who can win some battles and do the grunt work.

Unfortunately, Dumas thinks those type of players don't have the right analytic score. So, rather unlikely he will go and get. But, Bruins, Caps, Blues.....they will grind you down through 4 rounds of playoffs....

Good Luck with this analytic, Ninetindo all-star team. the construction is a couple grit players away...IMO...

sure.

if you ignore that ovehkin was a +100 point player, not a one-trick pony. with multiple art ross, harts, ted lindsey and rocket richard awards.

and maybe the best goal scorer of all-time.

sure. ovechkin is his comparable. matthews shouldn't be making $10.5M over 8-years, as a slight premium to eichel.
- Tumbleweed

Can you not ignore that Ovi’s first year saw an average of 3.10 GPG and a SV% of .901 while Matthews was 2.77GPG and a SV% of .913?

Also that Matthews reached 100 even strength goals 1 game after Ovi did?

Can you stop ignoring that Matthews is 22 and has yet to play a full career like Ovi has?

I doubt most are considering penalties as grit and "heavy" that playoff require. Moreso, the willingness to go to the "dirty" areas along the boards and clogging the front of the net. Both on defense AND up front. The Pens had skill, sure...but watch some games. Crosby is a dog in the corners, he shys from nobody, Kunitz was a force, Bonino...there were many. Pens were much "heavier" than you lead on.
The present Leaf team has almost NOBODY like that. Hyman is one...he has the type of grit and fearlessness and "heavy" that Leafs need.
If you think floating on the parimeter and stickhandling and doing fancy possession work will win you a Cup. I will check with you in May. Cuz, dollars to donuts, if the Leafs don't get tougher. They will be golfing, not in Round 2 or 3.

I could be proven wrong, but I think Leafs don't need a blow-up, but rather a tweak of shipping out 1 or 2 "skill" guys and bringing in a couple who can win some battles and do the grunt work.

Unfortunately, Dumas thinks those type of players don't have the right analytic score. So, rather unlikely he will go and get. But, Bruins, Caps, Blues.....they will grind you down through 4 rounds of playoffs....

Good Luck with this analytic, Ninetindo all-star team. the construction is a couple grit players away...IMO...
- hawk35

Ok boomer

Huh?

Half the league is operating with no cap space...this isn’t something new.

With talent you will be up against the cap.
- Santo_44

i guess that's why we were able to trade for that backup goalie making $1.5M-$2.0M as an upgrade.

I doubt most are considering penalties as grit and "heavy" that playoff require. Moreso, the willingness to go to the "dirty" areas along the boards and clogging the front of the net. Both on defense AND up front. The Pens had skill, sure...but watch some games. Crosby is a dog in the corners, he shys from nobody, Kunitz was a force, Bonino...there were many. Pens were much "heavier" than you lead on.
The present Leaf team has almost NOBODY like that. Hyman is one...he has the type of grit and fearlessness and "heavy" that Leafs need.
If you think floating on the parimeter and stickhandling and doing fancy possession work will win you a Cup. I will check with you in May. Cuz, dollars to donuts, if the Leafs don't get tougher. They will be golfing, not in Round 2 or 3.

I could be proven wrong, but I think Leafs don't need a blow-up, but rather a tweak of shipping out 1 or 2 "skill" guys and bringing in a couple who can win some battles and do the grunt work.

Unfortunately, Dumas thinks those type of players don't have the right analytic score. So, rather unlikely he will go and get. But, Bruins, Caps, Blues.....they will grind you down through 4 rounds of playoffs....

Good Luck with this analytic, Ninetindo all-star team. the construction is a couple grit players away...IMO...
- hawk35

Well said.

When you see your stars battling, it’s inspries everyone to battle harder. Crosby did that, Ovi did that, ROR etc.. Auston and Willy avoid contact at all costs. How many times have we see Willy completely stop and let they other guy make a play along the boards? I’ve never seen anything like it in my life.

The Branch Nylandians are always out in droves the day after a Leafs loss defending him.

He seems to get all credit for every win./
- RogerRoeper

Okay I can rephrase.

Andersen has kept the team in many games where the team failed to win for him. If he absolutely lost a game for the team it's excusable. The other guys get away with it.

I doubt most are considering penalties as grit and "heavy" that playoff require. Moreso, the willingness to go to the "dirty" areas along the boards and clogging the front of the net. Both on defense AND up front. The Pens had skill, sure...but watch some games. Crosby is a dog in the corners, he shys from nobody, Kunitz was a force, Bonino...there were many. Pens were much "heavier" than you lead on.
The present Leaf team has almost NOBODY like that. Hyman is one...he has the type of grit and fearlessness and "heavy" that Leafs need.
If you think floating on the parimeter and stickhandling and doing fancy possession work will win you a Cup. I will check with you in May. Cuz, dollars to donuts, if the Leafs don't get tougher. They will be golfing, not in Round 2 or 3.

I could be proven wrong, but I think Leafs don't need a blow-up, but rather a tweak of shipping out 1 or 2 "skill" guys and bringing in a couple who can win some battles and do the grunt work.

Unfortunately, Dumas thinks those type of players don't have the right analytic score. So, rather unlikely he will go and get. But, Bruins, Caps, Blues.....they will grind you down through 4 rounds of playoffs....

Good Luck with this analytic, Ninetindo all-star team. the construction is a couple grit players away...IMO...
- hawk35

Malkin is a dirty Mofo when he wants to be. So is Crosby. And that's a compliment.

All those teams had a desire to win. Had guys stepping up from nowhere (Smith-Pelley, Guentzel, Schwartz, Binnington).

I honestly couldn't tell you 3 players on the Leafs that i'm certain really wants to win a cup in their career. I assume they do. But i look at their play on the ice, their body language and the hustle and willing to sacrifice, and i ain't sure.

i guess that's why we were able to trade for that backup goalie making $1.5M-$2.0M as an upgrade.
- Tumbleweed

You like to ignore things

sure.

if you ignore that ovehkin was a +100 point player, not a one-trick pony. with multiple art ross, harts, ted lindsey and rocket richard awards.

and maybe the best goal scorer of all-time.

sure. ovechkin is his comparable. matthews shouldn't be making $10.5M over 8-years, as a slight premium to eichel.
- Tumbleweed

I wasnt ignoring anything, at the same time frame Ovechkin had won ROY just like Matthews

But revisionist history is great when you ignore all the years Ovechkin was treated the same way as Auston. Ovy was called 1 trick pony etc etc..

Its the same nonsense the best players get poop on until they win...then all great things get magically attributed to them

Ok boomer
- Santo_44

Every day you come in here and let people reem you.

I don’t know why you do it.

Can you not ignore that Ovi’s first year saw an average of 3.10 GPG and a SV% of .901 while Matthews was 2.77GPG and a SV% of .913?

Also that Matthews reached 100 even strength goals 1 game after Ovi did?

Can you stop ignoring that Matthews is 22 and has yet to play a full career like Ovi has?
- Santo_44

ovi's 1st 4 years. stop pretending matthews is in the same league.

2005-06 NHL Calder Memorial Trophy
2007-08 NHL Art Ross Trophy
2007-08 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
2007-08 NHL Maurice "Rocket" Richard Trophy
2007-08 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy
2008-09 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
2008-09 NHL Maurice "Rocket" Richard Trophy
2008-09 NHL Ted Lindsay Award

Huh?

Half the league is operating with no cap space...this isn’t something new.

With talent you will be up against the cap.
- Santo_44

To reinforce your point: Most teams were blindsided when the cap number was droppped by $1.5m over estimated.

Dallas has a 22 man roster and $815 dollars in cap space.
Florida has a 22 man roster and $500k in cap space.
Vancouver has a 22 man roster and $30k in cap space.
Chicago 22 / $240k
Calgary has 23 men, but has $19k; other teams with 23 players and on the cap brink:
St. Louis @ $20k
Philadelphia @ $57k
Vegas @ $103k
San Jose @ $399
Edmonton @ $680k.

You also have Washington with 21 players and $748k
Pittsburgh with 21 players and $1.4m.

Buffalo, Boston, Arizona and Toronto are all projected to have no space.

That's 16 teams with little to no wiggle room around the cap.

Hi!

Ok boomer
- Santo_44

Like I said...time will tell. Actually it is already telling...

Well said.

When you see your stars battling, it’s inspries everyone to battle harder. Crosby did that, Ovi did that, ROR etc.. Auston and Willy avoid contact at all costs. How many times have we see Willy completely stop and let they other guy make a play along the boards? I’ve never seen anything like it in my life.

The Branch Nylandians are always out in droves the day after a Leafs loss defending him.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

I wonder if Dubas has the guts to trade "his guy". I believe he was the one who wanted Kapanen in the Kessel deal.

He would be the first guy I would shop.

I wasnt ignoring anything, at the same time frame Ovechkin had won ROY just like Matthews

But revisionist history is great when you ignore all the years Ovechkin was treated the same way as Auston. Ovy was called 1 trick pony etc etc..

Its the same nonsense the best players get poop on until they win...then all great things get magically attributed to them
- senstroll

1st 3 years. Ovi vs. Matthews. Games/Goals/Assists/Points/PPG
245 / 163 / 147 / 310 / 1.27
212 / 111 / 94 / 205 / 0.97

To reinforce your point: Most teams were blindsided when the cap number was droppped by $1.5m over estimated.

Dallas has a 22 man roster and $815 dollars in cap space.
Florida has a 22 man roster and $500k in cap space.
Vancouver has a 22 man roster and $30k in cap space.
Chicago 22 / $240k
Calgary has 23 men, but has $19k; other teams with 23 players and on the cap brink:
St. Louis @ $20k
Philadelphia @ $57k
Vegas @ $103k
San Jose @ $399
Edmonton @ $680k.

You also have Washington with 21 players and $748k
Pittsburgh with 21 players and $1.4m.

Buffalo, Boston, Arizona and Toronto are all projected to have no space.

That's 16 teams with little to no wiggle room around the cap.
- Monkeypunk

Fire Dubas.

Fire Dubas.
- Steven_Seagull

1st 3 years. Ovi vs. Matthews. Games/Goals/Assists/Points/PPG
245 / 163 / 147 / 310 / 1.27
212 / 111 / 94 / 205 / 0.97
- Tumbleweed

there is no doubt Ovechkin is the superior player when it comes to Power play.

Also Matthews started in the League when he was 19, Ovechkin got the benefit of the lockout pushing his rookie season back 1 year to develop

Also Ovechkin got 16.82% of the cap on this current 13 year deal
Matthews got less 14.63%, as you would expect

- walshyleafsfan

He made all those teams have cap problems.

I doubt most are considering penalties as grit and "heavy" that playoff require. Moreso, the willingness to go to the "dirty" areas along the boards and clogging the front of the net. Both on defense AND up front. The Pens had skill, sure...but watch some games. Crosby is a dog in the corners, he shys from nobody, Kunitz was a force, Bonino...there were many. Pens were much "heavier" than you lead on.
The present Leaf team has almost NOBODY like that. Hyman is one...he has the type of grit and fearlessness and "heavy" that Leafs need.
If you think floating on the parimeter and stickhandling and doing fancy possession work will win you a Cup. I will check with you in May. Cuz, dollars to donuts, if the Leafs don't get tougher. They will be golfing, not in Round 2 or 3.

I could be proven wrong, but I think Leafs don't need a blow-up, but rather a tweak of shipping out 1 or 2 "skill" guys and bringing in a couple who can win some battles and do the grunt work.

Unfortunately, Dumas thinks those type of players don't have the right analytic score. So, rather unlikely he will go and get. But, Bruins, Caps, Blues.....they will grind you down through 4 rounds of playoffs....

Good Luck with this analytic, Ninetindo all-star team. the construction is a couple grit players away...IMO...
- hawk35

Given that I am a big fan of Crosby, I watched all of their playoff games in 2015 & 2016 when I could. I am aware of what Pittsburgh offered. Bonino is not a heavy player. He can grind okay. I would say out of the players you list, Kunitz is probably
the "heaviest" type.

Crosby is a dog on the puck, and it's why he is still one of the world's best players. For the Leafs to be successful, the acquisition of a piece of grit or two isn't what's needed. For the Leafs to be successful, they need their star players to take the next step in terms of competing. They need to learn to pay the price. Because unless the stars are also committed and paying the price, having a few extra "gritty" third and fourth liners isn't going to change the complexion of the team.

He made all those teams have cap problems.
- Steven_Seagull

Thought that was Babcock? The original Dubas.

Dubas is still a toddler

If Matthews signed the same cap% he got now in 2008 when Ovy signed his deal it would be 8.2mil

if that makes it easier to understand