If the front office believes the team is better this year than they were going into last...then they need to fire the coach.

It would be foolish to trade away players if they think the coach isnt the right guy or underachieving

The problem is there isnt anyone to replace him. JC should still be in the AHL and for about 4-5 years. If he was to be any good, they ruined him by putting him in this situation. As stated, if they did...then who do you replace him with? Barry Smith? None of the assistants are worth anything.

If they think JC is still the man, then start the fire sale. And as others have said, blow it all up. Might as well bring in SEL undrafted players to fill out the roster. Coaches should have the players they feel fit their system most and it's clear the majority on this roster don't

I'd even say move Kane at this point....BUFF would give a good haul, probably include Cozens for those that wanted the Hawks to draft him

Players to be moved and get good returns -
Lehner (why would he resign?)
Saad
Maata
DeHaan (if not done for year)
Murphy

Players to move and get something -
Kubilak
Gustafson
Crawford
Shaw (if he makes it back)

If they could get Keith to waive, he'd get a pretty good return too

Honestly......no. I don't blame Bowman for this roster. He has proven NHL d men....at least 5 of them.....are they the fastest or most talented? no....but the amount of quality chances this team gives up is hilarious. No wonder 40 and 50 take turns losing their minds. The best part of last night's game was 50 firing a puck off the glass and down...clearing the zone....while The hawks were on the PP.....message received Cory.

I blame JC. hes not a NHL coach. Hes not. They could go into a more conservative trap style and they'd be more competitive then whatever crap system he has them playing right now.

Im all for them detonating this thing and moving on. Attendance will dip.....the 1 goal commercials will get more desperate but they need to admit their window has slammed shut and figure out the best way to get back to a long run with a new core.


IMO.....everyone is available. Cater to the vets and see if you can get them a chance at winning again before their careers are over, but this team as constructed playing this crap system with this crap special teams.....the only thing worth watching is 50/40 stoning guys and 88. That's it.
- SteveRain

Interesting counterpoint from someone named "Garrett" over on The Athletic:

Injuries aren’t anyone’s fault I agree Laz but shouldn’t the GM be held responsible for signing players notorious for constantly being injured? Shaw, Calvin D and Mattaa were all players that Should come with a warning label attached to them. Out of the 3, one is sick and can’t play, one is out for who knows how long in concussion protocol and it looks like DeHaan’s (SURGICALLY REPAIRED SHOULDER!!!!!) is thrashed again.

====

None of us know who else, if anyone, was actually available to the Hawks. Right now, they're not really an attractive destination for anyone wanting to win right now who doesn't have some family connection to Chicago, are they? Maybe the guys we got were the best Stan could do, but it is a question worth asking.

If the front office believes the team is better this year than they were going into last...then they need to fire the coach.

It would be foolish to trade away players if they think the coach isnt the right guy or underachieving

The problem is there isnt anyone to replace him. JC should still be in the AHL and for about 4-5 years. If he was to be any good, they ruined him by putting him in this situation. As stated, if they did...then who do you replace him with? Barry Smith? None of the assistants are worth anything.

If they think JC is still the man, then start the fire sale. And as others have said, blow it all up. Might as well bring in SEL undrafted players to fill out the roster. Coaches should have the players they feel fit their system most and it's clear the majority on this roster don't

I'd even say move Kane at this point....BUFF would give a good haul, probably include Cozens for those that wanted the Hawks to draft him

Players to be moved and get good returns -
Lehner (why would he resign?)
Saad
Maata
DeHaan (if not done for year)
Murphy

Players to move and get something -
Kubilak
Gustafson
Crawford
Shaw (if he makes it back)

If they could get Keith to waive, he'd get a pretty good return too
- PatShart

Lehner wouldn’t resign is more skepticism than reality. From his previous comments when he was with the Islanders, he appears to be a very loyal team player. More to the point, he’s the goalie you build around, his character, loyalty, and is a fan favorite.

You also need to keep a veteran presence in the locker room. Keeping Murphy is warranted in this situation. De Haan will probably be done for the year, and maybe he should be, get his his shoulder full healed. This gives us 2 veteran dmen for next year. I would also keep Kubliak, as he is young and has shown promise. I’m worried about Marta, someone reminded us of his cancer diagnosis a while back, and “mysterious illness” gives me the chills. He might be done if he does have a reoccurrence.

I would definitely trade Crawford. He would net you a nice return especially to a team with a goalie need. If you trade Saad, you might as well trade Keith and Seabrook too. Toews? Kane would get you a monster return as well. I would think the teams in the east would be swarming us to make deals.

I’m on the fence with Gilbert. He has nastiness but he blows coverage, badly.

Untouchables for me:

Dach
Carpenter
Boqvist
Lehner
Kubliak


Depending on the returns I might also consider trading Strome and Cat.

If the coach plays Kubilak 9min a game...why keep him? And not a knock to JC, but if he clearly, in his mind, is a 9min a game guy - move him

Trade Saad too. They Haekd aren't going to be good for a loooong time if they go the fire sale route. He will be a good catch for those wanting Taylor Hall but not wanting to pay the price.

Not sure I agree with the Lehner is a "good locker room guy" but still not sure the point in keeping him when they could get a first or second round pick for him. What is the point in keeping him when they'll be tanking for several years?

Same with Murphy and Maata. Zero point in keeping either/both of them when again, both are under contract and can get a decent return for teams wanting D depth

Seabrook isnt moveable. Toews, probably the same. Not many teams will want his 10mil nor can afford it and not sure he'd waive it. Maybe to WIN bit they'd have to probably take back Bryan Little and Perrault at best. Maybe a pick. Might as well keep him

Interesting counterpoint from someone named "Garrett" over on The Athletic:

Injuries aren’t anyone’s fault I agree Laz but shouldn’t the GM be held responsible for signing players notorious for constantly being injured? Shaw, Calvin D and Mattaa were all players that Should come with a warning label attached to them. Out of the 3, one is sick and can’t play, one is out for who knows how long in concussion protocol and it looks like DeHaan’s (SURGICALLY REPAIRED SHOULDER!!!!!) is thrashed again.

====

None of us know who else, if anyone, was actually available to the Hawks. Right now, they're not really an attractive destination for anyone wanting to win right now who doesn't have some family connection to Chicago, are they? Maybe the guys we got were the best Stan could do, but it is a question worth asking.
- pdx2ord

I'm sure "Garrett" expressed these concerns right when the Hawks acquired each player.

And he's gonna rant against Stan because Maata is sick? Pretty reasonable.....

How long did you have the tickets before 2009? Did you demand big changes or give up the tickets then? What about earlier management gave you ANY hope back then?
- mohel

Well..........we have had our season tickets since 1962 when I was just a kid and going to the Stadium for a Christmas Night Game was my favorite gift from SANTA.

I guess it's all about the almighty dollar now. Season Tickets for center ice Mez were $3.75 apiece back then, now in 100 level center ice aisle seats are nearing 300.00 a seat. Yes............ we almost decided to give them up back in 1980 when my dad passed away, but when we drafted Denis Savard, we decided to keep them. We have been close to giving them up several times since but when we moved to the UC in 1994, our seats started at $60.00 and the team had several bad years. Prices didn't go up to $75.00 per after the team started to WIN.

Bottom line is thank GOD we decided to keep them through the rough times and totally LOVED the years of Stanley Cup playoffs and WINS in those many GREAT years of the rebuild.

Now, because of the salary cap, it's near impossible to maintain that level of competancy, especially since SB has mismanaged the dollars so poorly. His desparation moves over the past few years and since their hands are pretty much tied due to the contracts of 19, 88, 7 and others, my hope for seeing more playoff runs and possible Stanley Cups are gone IMO.

It's a sad state to hear JC claim that this team needs to do this and that to be competitive and I don't think it's going to change until this core is gone. I really agreed that it was time for Q to go and honestly thought that the nucleus was good enough to COMPETE for a few more years. Obviously I was wrong.

Changes have to start all the way on top before I'd consider re-upping for next season. AGAIN........... I surely hope that Mr. Rocky Wirtz has a plan in place or he's not the businessman that I think he is.

Lehner wouldn’t resign is more skepticism than reality. From his previous comments when he was with the Islanders, he appears to be a very loyal team player. More to the point, he’s the goalie you build around, his character, loyalty, and is a fan favorite.

You also need to keep a veteran presence in the locker room. Keeping Murphy is warranted in this situation. De Haan will probably be done for the year, and maybe he should be, get his his shoulder full healed. This gives us 2 veteran dmen for next year. I would also keep Kubliak, as he is young and has shown promise. I’m worried about Marta, someone reminded us of his cancer diagnosis a while back, and “mysterious illness” gives me the chills. He might be done if he does have a reoccurrence.

I would definitely trade Crawford. He would net you a nice return especially to a team with a goalie need. If you trade Saad, you might as well trade Keith and Seabrook too. Toews? Kane would get you a monster return as well. I would think the teams in the east would be swarming us to make deals.

I’m on the fence with Gilbert. He has nastiness but he blows coverage, badly.

Untouchables for me:

Dach
Carpenter
Boqvist
Lehner
Kubliak


Depending on the returns I might also consider trading Strome and Cat.
- gifman

Carpenter and Kubalik untouchable? Erg....

Or, and hear me out here, the core players have continued to degrade faster than their replacements have been found, so while the added depth has prevented a complete catastrophe, the very expensive core just isn't good enough to win games with any sort of consistency anymore.
- BINGO!

I respect your hockey knowledge and level headedness.

My take is that if Toews, Keith, Crow played on the right team in the right situation they would flourish. Granted they have degraded slightly from their peak, but the overall team and coaching has degraded in such a way that it makes everyone else look awful. I think Keith was playing very well just before his injury. Toews had a banner year offensively last year and people on this blog were feeling better about him. He has not dropped off that much in approach to the game, only the results have changed.

i personally cant wait for all of Canada to burn to the ground when Ovechkin breaks Gretzky's goal record. If he wants it, he can get there. Im pulling hard for the great 8, next to the Hawks they are my eastern conference team I pull for EVERY year.

Agreed...those guys you listed Im guessing continue to work on their games and get better.
- SteveRain

Why would Canada burn to the ground if Ovechkin passes Gretzky? You forget a small thing Steve most of us canada aren't as nationalistic as our friends to the south. Most of us here in the great white north tend to appreciate talent regardless of where it's from. If Ovie passes Gretzky all the power to him. If he doesn't pass Gretzky that would be too bad for him. I'll tell you who would love to see Ovie break Gretzky's record, that would be Gretzky himself.

Why would Canada burn to the ground if Ovechkin passes Gretzky? You forget a small thing Steve most of us canada aren't as nationalistic as our friends to the south. Most of us here in the great white north tend to appreciate talent regardless of where it's from. If Ovie passes Gretzky all the power to him. If he doesn't pass Gretzky that would be too bad for him. I'll tell you who would love to see Ovie break Gretzky's record, that would be Gretzky himself.
- paulr

Haha....Im sure Canada would be COMPLETELY ok with Gretzky's record going to Ovechkin and not Crosby, who the Canadian media pimps at a nauseating pace. I swear to god every night before LeBrun goes to bed he kisses his Crosby picture, and then kisses his Babcock picture.

I agree on Gretzky's take as reading what this guy went through as a talented young kid and being harassed by parents was alarming.....

I respect your hockey knowledge and level headedness.

My take is that if Toews, Keith, Crow played on the right team in the right situation they would flourish. Granted they have degraded slightly from their peak, but the overall team and coaching has degraded in such a way that it makes everyone else look awful. I think Keith was playing very well just before his injury. Toews had a banner year offensively last year and people on this blog were feeling better about him. He has not dropped off that much in approach to the game, only the results have changed.
- -Doh-

The world is results driven....no matter what your profession.

Outside of the fluke last year, Toews has been very mediocre at best on the offensive side of things, and really.....we can claim how great Toews and Saad are defensively yet the PK has been horrid the last few years.

Toews has lost the national media backing and rightfully so. Could he flourish on another team? Who knows. its just clear as day to me that he can't carry a line and I truly wonder what his career would look like if Detroit chose Hossa OVER Franzen......meaning without 81 playing next to him would 19 have shown these warts earlier on?

The point is, we as fans can chastise Seabrook and have blogs rip him to no end, but in my world Toews salary is just as much of a anvil as Seabrook's is.

Toews is being paid like an elite player....and the production suggest hes far from it.

Tyler great write up and I agree with your statement let the kids play.

I don't see Chicago making the playoffs again, this team can't string together any consistency or prove they can go on a run.

Also I just read Chicago has some serious cap issues this year and next year.

I'm just curious how much more of this can Rocky put up with before he moves on from Stan.

I understand Chicago has faced some unforseen injuries , however that happens in all sports , it's how the coaching staff and team respond.


I think Gilbert should be on this team , his play and energy has been fun to watch.

Well..........we have had our season tickets since 1962 when I was just a kid and going to the Stadium for a Christmas Night Game was my favorite gift from SANTA.

I guess it's all about the almighty dollar now. Season Tickets for center ice Mez were $3.75 apiece back then, now in 100 level center ice aisle seats are nearing 300.00 a seat. Yes............ we almost decided to give them up back in 1980 when my dad passed away, but when we drafted Denis Savard, we decided to keep them. We have been close to giving them up several times since but when we moved to the UC in 1994, our seats started at $60.00 and the team had several bad years. Prices didn't go up to $75.00 per after the team started to WIN.

Bottom line is thank GOD we decided to keep them through the rough times and totally LOVED the years of Stanley Cup playoffs and WINS in those many GREAT years of the rebuild.

Now, because of the salary cap, it's near impossible to maintain that level of competancy, especially since SB has mismanaged the dollars so poorly. His desparation moves over the past few years and since their hands are pretty much tied due to the contracts of 19, 88, 7 and others, my hope for seeing more playoff runs and possible Stanley Cups are gone IMO.

It's a sad state to hear JC claim that this team needs to do this and that to be competitive and I don't think it's going to change until this core is gone. I really agreed that it was time for Q to go and honestly thought that the nucleus was good enough to COMPETE for a few more years. Obviously I was wrong.

Changes have to start all the way on top before I'd consider re-upping for next season. AGAIN........... I surely hope that Mr. Rocky Wirtz has a plan in place or he's not the businessman that I think he is.
- Hawkytalk

When this team misses the playoffs, again, this spring it will be very interesting to see how the owner and president act. They are losing valuable playoff revenue and trying to stay relevant in the band wagon fan world competing with the other teams in town for those people's dollars.

I had tickets for a decade and could easily absorb the same price increases you speak of sitting in the 300 level row 1. As time goes by you begin to question the financial commitment and time commitment to drive down to the UC, park, get food, have a few adult beverages, and then watch the on ice product.

What will be interesting to see is the no shows start to accelerate. Seats may be sold but if the season ticket won't/can't go and can't find a buyer or somebody to go those set off alarms. Look up the picture from the last bulls game....reminds me of a Kings-hawks game I went to in 99....the 300 level was sparsely full, and the following year I got an email to sit in the 100 level where they used to sit the armed forces alumnus who they would show in the 2nd or 3rd period....for free.

All good things come to an end and the rapidly fall from grace this team has had sucks. However, I do get why the Hawks have done the retool on the fly as they have niche sport where if they aren't THE thing in town, they will quickly be forgotten.

The right move is to completely and commit to a true rebuild but for that to happen they need an organization mind set all in and prepared to lose LOTS of money.....

This remainder of the season and upcoming summer should be fascinating from a stand point of how they approach this.....this will be year 3 in a row without the playoffs......

I'm sure "Garrett" expressed these concerns right when the Hawks acquired each player.

And he's gonna rant against Stan because Maata is sick? Pretty reasonable.....
- mohel

You know last night watching them get steam rolled....I was thinking which ex Hawk from the cup runs hasn't made a return appearance yet?

Over/under until the sheep media start asking McDonough about Bowman's job security? have to think its coming soon, and if they did fire Bowman, I don't see how any new GM retains Colliton long term. They are going to want "their guy"

So not only does this team fail on the ice, but Stan has dug them a hole with more cap issues......can't say I am surprised on the latter.

If the Hawks offered up Kane to Buffalo, but insist on getting both Dahlin and Cozens in the deal....which side says "no"? Would that be enticing to either side?

If the Hawks offered up Kane to Buffalo, but insist on getting both Dahlin and Cozens in the deal....which side says "no"? Would that be enticing to either side?
- PatShart

Buffalo hangs up the phone immediately.

If the Hawks offered up Kane to Buffalo, but insist on getting both Dahlin and Cozens in the deal....which side says "no"? Would that be enticing to either side?
- PatShart

Buffalo says no in millasecond. 0.0 chance that happens

If the Hawks offered up Kane to Buffalo, but insist on getting both Dahlin and Cozens in the deal....which side says "no"? Would that be enticing to either side?
- PatShart

I'd say Buffalo says no very quickly. They went through a lot to get those young guys.

It's not as if Kane is slowing down.

BUFF needs scoring and they still have a solid D (if they moved Dahlin)

Cozens is a prospect so not sure if he would even be a difference maker in the NHL so he's a wild card

So, IMO, the big chip they'd be losing is Dahlin...but gaining a MVP

For the record, I dont think the Hawks trade 19/88 for the sole reason the money/promoting they bring in

Even though the seats will get more and more empty....they'll still sell ads and jerseys

....unless they ask to be moved

Move them both. Make it a two for one and bring up two more piggies.

It is pretty obvious they are too damn slow to compete with the better teams and their coach is too clueless to match wits against the better bench bosses so if some bozo wants two of their slower defenders then let it rip.

They were going to have problems without Keith and this year is looking more and more shot. Unload both goalies, stock up on assets and give the rookies as much of a look as possible.

Tell the veterans and fans were going to try really hard to get back to a threat in two years and who ever wants out we'll accommodate as best as possible. Could be major blessing.

#tanktanktank

For the record, I dont think the Hawks trade 19/88 for the sole reason the money/promoting they bring in

Even though the seats will get more and more empty....they'll still sell ads and jerseys

....unless they ask to be moved
- PatShart

I agree with your point, I also believe that no team has the cap space to absorb their salaries.

I agree with your point, I also believe that no team has the cap space to absorb their salaries.
- Taylorst1

I mean...you can move Toews to WINN. But you'd be taking back Bryan Little and Perrault

To BUFF...I agree. That would be difficult. Would have to take back probably Sobotka (on LTIR), Bogosian but still probably not enough when it comes to $$. There would be lots of garbage coming back....but if I were CHI I wouldn't move Kane there unless I got both them back (Dahlin & Cozens)

Carpenter and Kubalik untouchable? Erg....
- rpeters01

Yes because they are people to build around. We don’t want to have to start from absolute scratch. Carpenter is great 4th line PK guy and cheap. Kubliak has untapped potential.

After reading the 1st 3 pages, I'd like to add my 2 cents.

Stan SIGNIFICANTLY upgraded the roster over the summer.

He added 2 veteran, proven NHL defensemen. Do you remember the flotsam and jetsam that was Manning, Forsling, Davidson & Dahlstrom?

He also upgraded the forwards. Guys like Hayden, Fortin (wasn't ready) Luke Johnson & Martinsen took regular shifts last season.

He added a Vezina quality goalie, plus got a healthy CC back. Anyone want to go back to the Ward/Delia combo?

Realistically, I knew this wasn't a Cup contender at the beginning of the season, but I expected them to compete for a WC slot.

So, with this upgraded roster, with many more NHL quality players, they may be worse than last year.

So, who is responsible?

I'd say it's the guy that didn't have the team ready for the start of the season. The guy that decided to go to a dump & chase without players capable of playing that style.
The guy who has never had an effective defensive team in his now 7th year as a HC.
A guy who plays Gustafsson top pair minutes.
A guy who took 30 games to realize Nylander isn't good enough, yet, to play with Saad & Toews.
A guy who thought it was a good idea to break up his best line from last season, to start this season.

I'm sorry, JC may be a great HC in the league some day. But he isn't TODAY, he's in way over his head.

#FireColliton
- scottak

Whose the moron who hired the coach, held onto Gus, traded a good young defender for a headcase, signed Seabrook until the end of time and assembled the slowest d core in a game that is only getting faster?