The Hawks v Blues was Nationally Televised on NHL Network and it was probably the best I've seen Brandon Saad play since 2015. I'd be very interested to see what a Contender would give up to add Saad for 1.5 years......1st round pick and Top Prospect with the hawks retaining 1-2million???

With extremely disappointing times upon this organization, I'm interested in what the board thinks started this horrific decline :

A. 4 game sweep by Nashville in
April 2017 after winning the
Division.
B. The trade of Panarin for Saad
and others that followed that.
C. The Seabrook contract
D. The Bickell / TT trade to
Carolina
E. The Q firing/JC hiring.
F. The Crawford concussions

Wow. .....there's a few more that I could add to this but why bother.
For me.......one stands out but I'm curious what others think.
- Hawkytalk

A) is more of a symptom of the problem than the problem itself.

B-D) are the main issues that I would group under the a single heading. They had about 3 major purges of important players. One of the biggest which isn't a trade or a contract was the fact we lost Hossa. The guy owned the ice about 80% of the time he was out there. Add in losing Sharp. Not necessarily the trade itself, but losing what Sharp brought to the team (goal scoring, defensive responsibility, would lay the body).

I think the thing that the FO messed up the most was thinking that the core was going to be able to continue to carry the rest of the team. They needed to look at each player individually. Realize when a guy is done being a major contributor and cut bait.

E) was a disaster in how it was handled. You don't make that kind of change mid-season. It's not like Colliton was going anywhere and they were going to lose him. If Q led them to another missed playoffs, very few would have a problem with dumping him at the end of the year, then you would be able to take a breath and actually have a proper search for a new coach.

I'll add an extra one. It was alluded to in the previous blog (I believe it was PDX, but don't quote me on that) that some of the core may be a bit apathetic. While completely unacceptable from a fan and team perspective, that could very well be part of the problem. They've been to the top 3 times and now are fighting just to make the playoffs on a team with a coach they may not be sure about and teammates that are being rotated on a daily basis.

The Hawks v Blues was Nationally Televised on NHL Network and it was probably the best I've seen Brandon Saad play since 2015. I'd be very interested to see what a Contender would give up to add Saad for 1.5 years......1st round pick and Top Prospect with the hawks retaining 1-2million???
- EnzoD

Stan doesn't have to move Saad. If his is still playing well by the TDL, and they are open to trading him, he should garner that without anything retained. TDL costs are insanely high. If Stan retains anything in a Saad trade under these circumstances, he should be asked to take a long walk on a short pier.

Decent list, but there are more that certainly could be added to this list. And as I thought about it, so many are simply like dominoes. One bad decision led to another and another and another. Each one compounding the mistake or mistakes before. I would point to the off-season after the 2013 Cup that ended up having such a ripple effect on the team. The second wave I would submit came with the Seabrook contract and again, its ripple effect.
- savvyone-1

Team has never been the same after David Rundblad skated around the UC with the Cup. As hard as Gus tries to duplicate Rundblad's play, he just can't match that level of competitiveness.

With extremely disappointing times upon this organization, I'm interested in what the board thinks started this horrific decline :

A. 4 game sweep by Nashville in
April 2017 after winning the
Division.
B. The trade of Panarin for Saad
and others that followed that.
C. The Seabrook contract
D. The Bickell / TT trade to
Carolina
E. The Q firing/JC hiring.
F. The Crawford concussions

Wow. .....there's a few more that I could add to this but why bother.
For me.......one stands out but I'm curious what others think.
- Hawkytalk

‘‘Twas the cap that killed the beast.

None of the bad things listed above happen without a hard cap - after 2010, when they wound up right up against the cap even after moving out Ladd, Versteeg, and Byfuglien (partly due to not mailing qualifying contract offers on time) with replacements no where near equal in talent.

Also after the Cup year of 2013 - which was also the year of the new CBA - which mandated reducing the cap from a proration of $70MM for 2013 to $64MM for 2013-14.

The only hard cap in North American sports.

Add in the cap not reaching the league’s projections since then....

Some bad decisions were made because of the cap, but I wonder what they’d look like the past 4 years with a more flexible spending limit.

I think it started with the playoffs in 2015 with the Ducks. Those mofos beat the living daylights out of the boys, and even though they won the cup that year, the core hasn't been themselves since.
- Googlyeyes

"No human can with stand that many hits". yea, ok. anybody here ever play football? Many collisions every play. Thought it to be a bogus comment then, still do now.

Stan doesn't have to move Saad. If his is still playing well by the TDL, and they are open to trading him, he should garner that without anything retained. TDL costs are insanely high. If Stan retains anything in a Saad trade under these circumstances, he should be asked to take a long walk on a short pier.
- Chunk

Agreed he does not have to retain Salary to move Saad. However, Cap restrictions for many Contending Teams could allow more teams to be in the running for Saad at $4mil, therefore garnering a much greater trade return.

I love Saad when he is on his game, but he disappears for long stretches, is not a true 1LW, and is one of the only trade chips to get high end assets in return. Saad on your 3rd line for a playoff team is a HUGE boost to your Cup chances.

‘‘Twas the cap that killed the beast.

None of the bad things listed above happen without a hard cap - after 2010, when they wound up right up against the cap even after moving out Ladd, Versteeg, and Byfuglien (partly due to not mailing qualifying contract offers on time) with replacements no where near equal in talent.

Also after the Cup year of 2013 - which was also the year of the new CBA - which mandated reducing the cap from a proration of $70MM for 2013 to $64MM for 2013-14.

The only hard cap in North American sports.

Add in the cap not reaching the league’s projections since then....

Some bad decisions were made because of the cap, but I wonder what they’d look like the past 4 years with a more flexible spending limit.
- StLBravesFan

This is true, but it's also true that with a more flexible cap, Detroit may have been able to afford to keep Hossa. In addition, the Hawks also had Hossa and Keith at way below market value cap hits, which allowed them additional flexibility that the hard cap did not allow other teams to have. Let's not forget the Kane injury in 2015 too which allowed them to sign Vermette.

In my eyes the Hawks benefitted from the cap just as much as they were hurt by it.

From The a fox List I’m most surprised about Beuadin and Boqvist ranks.
- gifman

Hope this helps to clarify but the projected F line or D pair is where each would likely start his NHL career, not where they would ultimately reach as his water level.

Boqvist and Beaudin have top 3 potential if not 1st pair, IMO.

This is true, but it's also true that with a more flexible cap, Detroit may have been able to afford to keep Hossa. In addition, the Hawks also had Hossa and Keith at way below market value cap hits, which allowed them additional flexibility that the hard cap did not allow other teams to have. Let's not forget the Kane injury in 2015 too which allowed them to sign Vermette.

In my eyes the Hawks benefitted from the cap just as much as they were hurt by it.
- tazer_and_diet

True on Hossa.

But the question was what happened to the Hawk team as it existed - a triple-Cup winner - to lead it to the...uhhh...mess that it is now.

True on Hossa.

But the question was what happened to the Hawk team as it existed - a triple-Cup winner - to lead it to the...uhhh...mess that it is now.
- StLBravesFan

It became a much different make-up each year. Now with a new coach, it is a completely different identity. Even the players that have been around for the whole thing are notably different than they were 5 years ago.

I made several arguments yesterday that sitting Toews because he is not producing points is stupid, because he is still the best center on the team. That said, compare him to other 1C's around the league and he is a full notch below most of them.

Keith and Seabrook aren't near what they used to be. Crow is still very good, but there is always the concussion issue to be wary of. The guys they have brought in to back-feed or ultimately replaced these guys are borderline 2/3 line players (maybe Cat is an exception). Dach looks pretty good so far, but small sample size and we still have to see what he is really capable of.

True on Hossa.

But the question was what happened to the Hawk team as it existed - a triple-Cup winner - to lead it to the...uhhh...mess that it is now.
- StLBravesFan

Ahh yeah... duh. And you're right, with those contracts they could have been much better off than they are now.

It became a much different make-up each year. Now with a new coach, it is a completely different identity. Even the players that have been around for the whole thing are notably different than they were 5 years ago.

I made several arguments yesterday that sitting Toews because he is not producing points is stupid, because he is still the best center on the team. That said, compare him to other 1C's around the league and he is a full notch below most of them.

Keith and Seabrook aren't near what they used to be. Crow is still very good, but there is always the concussion issue to be wary of. The guys they have brought in to back-feed or ultimately replaced these guys are borderline 2/3 line players (maybe Cat is an exception). Dach looks pretty good so far, but small sample size and we still have to see what he is really capable of.
- Chunk

I loved the Dach pick and think he's done an admirable job
for an 18 year old but I still don't think he's that great right now. He's weak on the puck and loses it all the time, gets knocked around, is always falling down, and can't win a face-off.

This year will be a great learning experience for the kid, his future is exciting, but he has a way to go before he is top 6 material.

With extremely disappointing times upon this organization, I'm interested in what the board thinks started this horrific decline :

A. 4 game sweep by Nashville in
April 2017 after winning the
Division.
B. The trade of Panarin for Saad
and others that followed that.
C. The Seabrook contract
D. The Bickell / TT trade to
Carolina
E. The Q firing/JC hiring.
F. The Crawford concussions

Wow. .....there's a few more that I could add to this but why bother.
For me.......one stands out but I'm curious what others think.
- Hawkytalk

After Canada won the world cup in fall of '16, Toews either got hurt or the wear and tear started to kick in, and is now full on ugliness..

Hope this helps to clarify but the projected F line or D pair is where each would likely start his NHL career, not where they would ultimately reach as his water level.

Boqvist and Beaudin have top 3 potential if not 1st pair, IMO.
- AEL_Fox

Awesome work, Foxy!! Have you seen Vlasic this yr as a freshman at Boston U? Saw 2 periods of a game and liked what I saw. Coach is allowing the big kid to jump in. So he's honing his offensive skills and at 6ft 6in he has NHL size for sure.

No matter what team it is, your best players have to play like the best players. Only Kane and I would argue Crow have met that standard so far this year.

Ok, que the Crow love, Lehner has been better than Crow for the entire season so far, Crow has closed the gap from his lousy start.

This was interesting for me - a drill-by-drill breakdown of what JC and the other coaches put the team through today to try and correct the issues they are seeing:

https://theathletic.com/1...ckhawks-doing-to-improve/

From The a fox List I’m most surprised about Beuadin and Boqvist ranks.
- gifman

I don't see even half that many on the list to make the big team RFD players making the Hawks in two years. If they do we will have 30 points a season.

Gustafsson’s turn over in G7 against STL that lead to the series winning goal.
- scottak

Trading Esposito to Boston
Letting Bobby Hull go to Winnipeg

It all came unraveled when they traded Leddy. Unrecoverable.
- mohel

I've always been upset they didn't consider Bufgylien part of the core. Q wanted him playing forward parked in front of the net and they thought he was out of shape. He wanted to play Defense and was dominant for 9 seasons since 2010 and could take the puck end to end. Would have made a hell of a 2nd pairing with somebody.

Yep that's bad to but rocky mcduff and bowman all signed off on that one. Seabrook imo should have been traded after the 15th cup win. But its all hindsight now.
- Scott1977

To that end I'm sure many thought Stan overpaid Toews/Kane at the time it happened not in hindsight. I've always wondered what would have happened if Stan made an $8.5 Stamkos offer and Tallon in FL offered them $10???

I've always been upset they didn't consider Bufgylien part of the core. Q wanted him playing forward parked in front of the net and they thought he was out of shape. He wanted to play Defense and was dominant for 9 seasons since 2010 and could take the puck end to end. Would have made a hell of a 2nd pairing with somebody.
- rpeters01

Then he wouldn't have been a Richard to our guys every time we played the Jets.

This was interesting for me - a drill-by-drill breakdown of what JC and the other coaches put the team through today to try and correct the issues they are seeing:

https://theathletic.com/1...ckhawks-doing-to-improve/
- pdx2ord

What I find interesting is this is finally being done after 26 games into the season. The Hawks have had more off days and optional practices than their play earned for them ... but I suppose better late than never.

What I find interesting is this is finally being done after 26 games into the season. The Hawks have had more off days and optional practices than their play earned for them ... but I suppose better late than never.
- EbonyRaptor

In the first 10ish games, the players were complaining about too much practice, too many hours on the ice outside of games. Wonder if that was another FO intervention discussion because they seemed to move to more optionals after that - optionals that the majority of the vets didn't attend.

Maybe JC and the other coaches rightfully said, well, you want to not practice so much, show me in the games that you will make the effort.

Team has never been the same after David Rundblad skated around the UC with the Cup. As hard as Gus tries to duplicate Rundblad's play, he just can't match that level of competitiveness.
- RickJ

Not sure what to do with this one, so Ill just quote it.