You consider this an opinion?: "Simon has good fancy stats which are all that matter. The only thing the eye test says about Simon is that he can't score a point blank goal on an empty net but that's not really relevant in modern hockey."

Thats not an opinion man...its backhanded passive aggressive crap bait to stir up sh!t. If you actually consider it an opinion and nothing else, do you really think whats said here is right?
- MattStrat

I haven’t even mentioned a single advanced statistic the entire conversation lol that’s what’s comical about it.

I haven’t even mentioned a single advanced statistic the entire conversation lol that’s what’s comical about it.
- j.boyd919

Yeah Sammy aimed that at some of the people who follow and comment on the underlying stats more than others. It was a condescending post.

I don’t think Jake-Geno-Galch would be worse than Jake-Geno-Simon

People keep talking about Galchenyuks defensive issues but Simon is the one who hasn’t been breaking the puck out well lately. Dude doesn’t even make him available as an outlet! Galchenyuk has been making himself available often, on both wings, and often times advances the puck forward with a nice pass. My issue with him has been his turnovers lately
- WSCTeton17

Rust has been skating, hopefully he is a go Friday. Maybe we can go with Galchenyuk-Malkin-Rust; Jake-McCann-Kahun. Then when Sid returns he can just slide into McCann's spot. Kahun has impressed since a slow start.

Yeah Sammy aimed that at some of the people who follow and comment on the underlying stats more than others. It was a condescending post.
- MattStrat

Dude’s a douche canoe.

You consider this an opinion?: "Simon has good fancy stats which are all that matter. The only thing the eye test says about Simon is that he can't score a point blank goal on an empty net but that's not really relevant in modern hockey."

Thats not an opinion man...its backhanded passive aggressive crap bait to stir up sh!t. If you actually consider it an opinion and nothing else, do you really think whats said here is right?
- MattStrat

You're cherrypicking from the end of their disagreement. One is saying Simon can't finish enough to warrant playing on scoring 1 line, and the other is saying he is as good as all of Sid's wingers, even though he lacks a finishing touch. Outright getting pissed off and slinging insults is childish. Passive aggressiveness is not a reason to act like you're on a playground. Let him be passive aggressive.

Simon does have trouble finishing at the NHL level. His good points are his ability to hold onto a puck (which is why I think Sid, and RW and Sully for that matter, like him). This extends plays and zone time in the O-zone, and helps get control in his own zone. But how many chances does he blow before it's considered an inability to score and not a cold streak?

Both of their points have merit. Thus, who can say who is wrong or right about the best option for a top line winger? Besides, as I've said, this isn't my first time reading this guy's tone and thinking he's insanely full of himself.

He seems a little gun-shy with Sully benching him for 9 minutes of playing time on a lot of nights. I disagree with the way he's been managed, but the most glaring thing I see is him blowing assignments on the forecheck and backcheck. I think this is something that is really pissing off the coach. But this isn't like Sprong; this guy has proven NHL pedigree. If we're going to trade him, then we need to force feed him some top line minutes to increase his value. If we're not, then we're wasting a perennial 20-goal scorer on an expiring contract.
- pens_4ever

Good post - I agree with this. I mean, if Sully thinks he's only good for 9 minutes on the 4th line, then trade him for a 7th rounder (or whatever) and free up the $4.9M cap space to use in a trade. Maybe he isn't mentally capable of doing what Sully wants him to do, and that's fine. But it's a total waste to have him in the lineup and giving him such a diminished role, which can only hurt his trade value.

You're cherrypicking from the end of their disagreement. One is saying Simon can't finish enough to warrant playing on scoring 1 line, and the other is saying he is as good as all of Sid's wingers, even though he lacks a finishing touch. Outright getting pissed off and slinging insults is childish. Passive aggressiveness is not a reason to act like you're on a playground. Let him be passive aggressive.

Simon does have trouble finishing at the NHL level. His good points are his ability to hold onto a puck (which is why I think Sid, and RW and Sully for that matter, like him). This extends plays and zone time in the O-zone, and helps get control in his own zone. But how many chances does he blow before it's considered an inability to score and not a cold streak?

Both of their points have merit. Thus, who can say who is wrong or right about the best option for a top line winger? Besides, as I've said, this isn't my first time reading this guy's tone and thinking he's insanely full of himself.
- pens_4ever

I agree with most of that but want to point out 2 things:

1) you didnt answer my questions and

2) I dont think Boyd has been dead set on him being a top line winger

Personally I like Simon and think he can slot up and down the lineup anywhere nicely, so I dont really care what line he's on. Not everyone on a line has to have star production and this guy is good at controlling the puck, zone entries and is good defensively...he's also a pretty good passer.

You're cherrypicking from the end of their disagreement. One is saying Simon can't finish enough to warrant playing on scoring 1 line, and the other is saying he is as good as all of Sid's wingers, even though he lacks a finishing touch. Outright getting pissed off and slinging insults is childish. Passive aggressiveness is not a reason to act like you're on a playground. Let him be passive aggressive.

Simon does have trouble finishing at the NHL level. His good points are his ability to hold onto a puck (which is why I think Sid, and RW and Sully for that matter, like him). This extends plays and zone time in the O-zone, and helps get control in his own zone. But how many chances does he blow before it's considered an inability to score and not a cold streak?

Both of their points have merit. Thus, who can say who is wrong or right about the best option for a top line winger? Besides, as I've said, this isn't my first time reading this guy's tone and thinking he's insanely full of himself.
- pens_4ever

I didn’t call Hockey_66 any names or insult him lol I’m not even disagreeing with his analysis of Simon in a vacuum. I’m saying that despite his inability to finish, he’s still putting up numbers similar to what previous linemates have. My opinion is they it’s not as big a deal as some make it out to be and we were just having conversation, until Sammy donkeyed his way in lol

Chucky is working hard. As evidenced by that goal. Still, it shouldn't take an NHL player with years of NHL experience this long to adapt to a system.

Simon has been hilariously bad at finishing plays but he's getting chances and going to the right areas.

Chucky still seems lost as to where to be on the ice. That being said he would've turned at least one of those Simon chances into goals.

Tough to get too pissed about player deployment when you have a skeleton crew for a team.

I thought Rikki looked good last night.

https://www.nhl.com/news/...ve-experience/c-312169252

Micah(IneffectiveMath) working in collaboration with the NHL.

Guys. Players who produce at a top 6 level at even strength and cost pennies are super valuable regardless of how good their goal scoring chops are. Would we rather have someone who can actually score goals on Sid and Malkin’s wing? Of course, but right now we’re super depleted and you can do a lot worse than a guy that’s good enough to produce despite being an atrocious shooter. With the emergence of Kahun, ideally you get Simon off the scoring lines and put him in a bottom six role where he can help facilitate secondary scoring, but a guy like Simon is good enough to play up when injuries hit or in spot duty when a line goes stale.

We can revisit the conversation about whether or not Simon provides value this offseason after we know what his pay increase is but for now he’s a good asset that is definitely one of our top 9 best wings.

Rust has been skating, hopefully he is a go Friday. Maybe we can go with Galchenyuk-Malkin-Rust; Jake-McCann-Kahun. Then when Sid returns he can just slide into McCann's spot. Kahun has impressed since a slow start.
- Thunderbolt

I think I read that Rust has been skating on his own and even skipped a day, maybe that was Tuesday. Sounds like Schultz is closer and Rust needs a bit more time

Guys. Players who produce at a top 6 level at even strength and cost pennies are super valuable regardless of how good their goal scoring chops are. Would we rather have someone who can actually score goals on Sid and Malkin’s wing? Of course, but right now we’re super depleted and you can do a lot worse than a guy that’s good enough to produce despite being an atrocious shooter. With the emergence of Kahun, ideally you get Simon off the scoring lines and put him in a bottom six role where he can help facilitate secondary scoring, but a guy like Simon is good enough to play up when injuries hit or in spot duty when a line goes stale.

We can revisit the conversation about whether or not Simon provides value this offseason after we know what his pay increase is but for now he’s a good asset that is definitely one of our top 9 best wings.
- Victoro311

Simon has to be the most polarizing issue in these comment sections...people are either in your boat here, me included, or they are totally against the guy hahaha

If you need any info I will try to chime in where I can. My friend is also the Strength coach for WBS. I sometimes am able to get the extra little behind the scene details when I can.
- 123Kid

Yeah man, definitely chime in on that type of stuff! It's a hockeybuzz message board, we're pretty much all here because we're over obsessed with talking hockey.

Simon has to be the most polarizing issue in these comment sections...people are either in your boat here, me included, or they are totally against the guy hahaha
- MattStrat

Have to expect it after the chances he missed last night. He'd hit a stick if it was propped up in front of an empty net. It's actually impressive.

I agree with WSC, if he hasn't tried to change everything about his stick he really should.

Simon has to be the most polarizing issue in these comment sections...people are either in your boat here, me included, or they are totally against the guy hahaha
- MattStrat

The Never-Simons will never get on board. It’s just amazing to me how polarizing he is.

He seems a little gun-shy with Sully benching him for 9 minutes of playing time on a lot of nights. I disagree with the way he's been managed, but the most glaring thing I see is him blowing assignments on the forecheck and backcheck. I think this is something that is really pissing off the coach. But this isn't like Sprong; this guy has proven NHL pedigree. If we're going to trade him, then we need to force feed him some top line minutes to increase his value. If we're not, then we're wasting a perennial 20-goal scorer on an expiring contract.
- pens_4ever

LW and G are the two positions that haven't been hit with injuries so far. I don't like the way Galchenyuk has been managed either. What is most disturbing to me is that ZAR is getting more TOI. I don't know what Sullivan's long game is but 'chucky needs to change that. He really needs to be challenging Tanev for ice time rather than ZAR.

Simon has to be the most polarizing issue in these comment sections...people are either in your boat here, me included, or they are totally against the guy hahaha
- MattStrat

I just think people view small skill players in black and white. They’re either Marty St Louis or they’re AHLers that have no business in the big leagues. There’s no middle ground for these kinds of players where people accept that they have limitations but also acknowledge that they’re good for what they are. I mean the same people that female doged about Simon also female doged about Sheary and Sheary actually scored goals.

I don’t think Simon should be on the top line but I also don’t believe it’s as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be. A guy making 750K scoring ~39 points in a top 6 role is exactly what you want on a team to allow your coach to have fine chemistry on other lines.
- j.boyd919

I just think the fact he's so bad at finishing should take him off that line. The team has other options, almost everyone on this team is averaging .5 points a game, even Sam Lafferty.

I don't hate Simon at all, I just think he's a bottom six guy that maybe you slot higher with injuries or slumps. Good depth player though.

I just think people view small skill players in black and white. They’re either Marty St Louis or they’re AHLers that have no business in the big leagues. There’s no middle ground for these kinds of players where people accept that they have limitations but also acknowledge that they’re good for what they are. I mean the same people that female doged about Simon also female doged about Sheary and Sheary actually scored goals.
- Victoro311

I think you're right with all of that.

Have to expect it after the chances he missed last night. He'd hit a stick if it was propped up in front of an empty net. It's actually impressive.

I agree with WSC, if he hasn't tried to change everything about his stick he really should.
- Thorny87

The Never-Simons will never get on board. It’s just amazing to me how polarizing he is.
- Rinosaur

hahah sounds like a band name.

LW and G are the two positions that haven't been hit with injuries so far. I don't like the way Galchenyuk has been managed either. What is most disturbing to me is that ZAR is getting more TOI. I don't know what Sullivan's long game is but 'chucky needs to change that. He really needs to be challenging Tanev for ice time rather than ZAR.
- Thunderbolt

It’s tough to figure out though. From a coaching stand point you have to have your guys earn ice time or else it can screw up moral when a guy that’s struggled is getting TOI handouts over guys that are actually playing quite well like Tanev. On the flip side, if you limit the chances for a guy to break out of a funk by killing their TOI, the funk can become permanent, like what happened with Tanner Pearson who got buried here and then broke out in Vancouver. Also from a divisional race standpoint, the Pens have been absolutely shellacked with injuries so each point is precious. You just have to put out the guys that put you in the best position to win every night because every single point is so valuable when we’re treading water.

"When someone doesn't say something I like, I just say they're dense and insult the person. I do this because I am adept am communicating like an adult. Everyone should heed my glorious opinions."

Dude, you really need to chill out with thinking you're so much better than everyone else in the world. You're wrong about stuff every day too. Set your ego down, and stop treating everyone like they're crap and your word is gospel.
- pens_4ever

Good post, please post more here on the board.

I just think the fact he's so bad at finishing should take him off that line. The team has other options, almost everyone on this team is averaging .5 points a game, even Sam Lafferty.

I don't hate Simon at all, I just think he's a bottom six guy that maybe you slot higher with injuries or slumps. Good depth player though.
- Tojo.

The emergence of Kahun has definitely brought me around to your POV. At the beginning of the season with Kahun still struggling, Rust hurt, and Galchenyuk either hurt or invisible, I really didnt think we had that much better options. Now with the way Kahun and Rust have been playing, they should definitely be the top two RWs.