Exactly. I was trying to pay attention to that and you could totally see. Even if you werent paying attention, that was probably the best effort we've seen from them in a while.

Thanks Babs, you instilled a foundation, but it was time for you to go.
- mel_vin

Yup.

Dubas and him are on the same page and that’s incredibly important.

Or perhaps he's a kid who doesn't want to deal with an authoritarian coach who is (in his view) hindering his ability to excel.

There are two sides to every story.
- lumlums

Honestly I think that Babcock just wanted Matthews to become the best player possible (he referenced before this season that he could become the type of player Datsyuk was) - they way he communicates obviously rubs Matthews the wrong way.

The question is whether that's on the coach, the player - probably both.
But I don't think there has ever been 'bad faith' from Babcock's side.
He just pushes his stars the most.

Babcock's philosophy is, if you want to work with him (and try to follow what he wants to see), he'll give you opportunities. First and foremost, he wants players to put in their best effort.
He is harder on the most talented players (Matthews, Nylander, Marner) than on the less gifted (3rd/4th liners).
The reason why he puts 4th line on the ice after a goal, is because he can rely that these guys will play 100% each and every shift - not necessarily a given for some of the most talented guys on this team.

Maybe it's a generational difference - and Keefe can be a better coach on a day to day basis for these guys - since it's an 'easier life'.
I doubt however that it'll bring them a Stanley Cup - difficult without wanting to put in 100% every game.
- MaximusAurelius

"If you wanna be my lover play'r, gotta get with my friends"

- Spice girls Mike Babcock, presumably

Ok so grain of salt time...my record has been pretty good tho

So I was told that Babs pretty much lost the room at the start of the season by what he did to Spezza. It was kind of the final straw for a lot of the guys in the room. AM34 was also pretty much fed up with him and how he was being utilized and you could even see it on his face. (the meetings off season to try and smooth over the relationship) JT and Spezza are also friends apparently and JT lost respect for Babs for not letting his friend play on the game opener, considering he is a local boy and took league min just to come play here for his family. (JT is all about that kind of thing) Players only meeting, a lot of sentiment from the guys was pretty much to hell with Babs

You can kind of hear it also in the player post game comments last night.

Also when you watch the replay on Barries goal, the emotion AM34 showed, you could see how happy he was for him.

JT and Rielly went and had that meeting with Babs, and there were "disagreements" between JT and Babs...hence the call out to Rielly in his statement (who was trying to keep peace)

Dubas wanted him gone in the summer, but Shanny is old school and wanted another seaon before he even started to consider a change... But in the end, even Shanny saw what was going on and finally agreed. (had to go to the board first cause of the money)

again take it for what its worth, but this person has been bang on with everthing he's told me


- mel_vin

Great Character and teammate. Have to wonder if Matthews eventually becomes captain

Honestly I think that Babcock just wanted Matthews to become the best player possible (he referenced before this season that he could become the type of player Datsyuk was) - they way he communicates obviously rubs Matthews the wrong way.

The question is whether that's on the coach, the player - probably both.
But I don't think there has ever been 'bad faith' from Babcock's side.
He just pushes his stars the most.
- MaximusAurelius

Agreed there. I don't think we can say anything bad about Babs' the person (though a few ex-players do of course). He's a guy I'd love to sit down and have a beer with, but at this moment in time, I'm also glad that he's no longer the coach...

the 4th line at 100% effort is about as effective as the first line playing at 50% effort tho
- daeth

You are right maybe for regular season games - but Babcock has said 1000+ times it's all about process and long-term with him.
(he did get 95/96, 105 and 100 points last three seasons - that's not bad at all).

Most of the top young guys just didn't get it.
Or didn't want to get it.
I don't think that's a good situation - you have to have guys want to be open to work with the coach and not just think they're right always.

And by the way - the whole Spezza thing is so stupid; Spezza had indicated he was aware of his role with Leafs (100%!) and Babcock basically rewarded Timashov and Gauthier for playing well in the preseason - he went with the younger guys that deserved it.
That's not a bad thing in my opinion - every player on the team has to earn his playing time.

"If you wanna be my lover play'r, gotta get with my friends"

- Spice girls Mike Babcock, presumably
- lumlums

ewwwwwwwwwwww

cringeworthy

exactly...

I hope the guys - while celebrating last nights return from the land of the living dead - actually had someone take a picture of them mooning a picture of Babcock... 'cause you know that would go down well

dropping your pants in Scottsdale.... what could go wrong?
- BorjeFan4Ever

Ok so grain of salt time...my record has been pretty good tho

So I was told that Babs pretty much lost the room at the start of the season by what he did to Spezza. It was kind of the final straw for a lot of the guys in the room. AM34 was also pretty much fed up with him and how he was being utilized and you could even see it on his face. (the meetings off season to try and smooth over the relationship) JT and Spezza are also friends apparently and JT lost respect for Babs for not letting his friend play on the game opener, considering he is a local boy and took league min just to come play here for his family. (JT is all about that kind of thing) Players only meeting, a lot of sentiment from the guys was pretty much to hell with Babs

You can kind of hear it also in the player post game comments last night.

Also when you watch the replay on Barries goal, the emotion AM34 showed, you could see how happy he was for him.

JT and Rielly went and had that meeting with Babs, and there were "disagreements" between JT and Babs...hence the call out to Rielly in his statement (who was trying to keep peace)

Dubas wanted him gone in the summer, but Shanny is old school and wanted another seaon before he even started to consider a change... But in the end, even Shanny saw what was going on and finally agreed. (had to go to the board first cause of the money)

again take it for what its worth, but this person has been bang on with everthing he's told me


- mel_vin

They make that money back in a 7 game playoff series and then some.

Ok so grain of salt time...my record has been pretty good tho

So I was told that Babs pretty much lost the room at the start of the season by what he did to Spezza. It was kind of the final straw for a lot of the guys in the room. AM34 was also pretty much fed up with him and how he was being utilized and you could even see it on his face. (the meetings off season to try and smooth over the relationship) JT and Spezza are also friends apparently and JT lost respect for Babs for not letting his friend play on the game opener, considering he is a local boy and took league min just to come play here for his family. (JT is all about that kind of thing) Players only meeting, a lot of sentiment from the guys was pretty much to hell with Babs

You can kind of hear it also in the player post game comments last night.

Also when you watch the replay on Barries goal, the emotion AM34 showed, you could see how happy he was for him.

JT and Rielly went and had that meeting with Babs, and there were "disagreements" between JT and Babs...hence the call out to Rielly in his statement (who was trying to keep peace)

Dubas wanted him gone in the summer, but Shanny is old school and wanted another seaon before he even started to consider a change... But in the end, even Shanny saw what was going on and finally agreed. (had to go to the board first cause of the money)

again take it for what its worth, but this person has been bang on with everthing he's told me


- mel_vin

Some people could learn a lot of lessons from Shanny....the guy has been around hockey for decades and he has adapted to change. Can’t say the same for a lot of people.

ewwwwwwwwwwww

cringeworthy
- BorjeFan4Ever

Babcock's philosophy is, if you want to work with him (and try to follow what he wants to see), he'll give you opportunities. First and foremost, he wants players to put in their best effort.
He is harder on the most talented players (Matthews, Nylander, Marner) than on the less gifted (3rd/4th liners).
The reason why he puts 4th line on the ice after a goal, is because he can rely that these guys will play 100% each and every shift - not necessarily a given for some of the most talented guys on this team.

Maybe it's a generational difference - and Keefe can be a better coach on a day to day basis for these guys - since it's an 'easier life'.
I doubt however that it'll bring them a Stanley Cup - difficult without wanting to put in 100% every game.
- MaximusAurelius

I totally agree with you on his style. But generational or not, (which in this case I do think it is) that style doesnt always fly with a lot of people, or you need the right roster to fit it.

Again hard to say. With different coaching style maybe it wont be an issue, maybe it will, how Keefe will deal with that is the unknown and how they will respond to it too.

It's fair to a degree. The players didn't execute. Is it because they wouldn't or couldn't? The team is composed in a rather specific manner.

If I owned 10 Ferraris, I wouldn't start a towing company with them.
- Monkeypunk

nice one!

More and more we should start doubting whether Matthews has the proper character
- MaximusAurelius

oh brother...

Everyone except Willy looked like they were operating on a new program.

Willy was taking low% shots, leisurely floating around, not retrieving pucks etc.

He isn’t going to last under Keefe.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

I honestly thought Nylander played really well last night

You are right maybe for regular season games - but Babcock has said 1000+ times it's all about process and long-term with him.
(he did get 95/96, 105 and 100 points last three seasons - that's not bad at all).

Most of the top young guys just didn't get it.
Or didn't want to get it.
I don't think that's a good situation - you have to have guys want to be open to work with the coach and not just think they're right always.

And by the way - the whole Spezza thing is so stupid; Spezza had indicated he was aware of his role with Leafs (100%!) and Babcock basically rewarded Timashov and Gauthier for playing well in the preseason - he went with the younger guys that deserved it.
That's not a bad thing in my opinion - every player on the team has to earn his playing time.
- MaximusAurelius

whats to say a different coach couldnt have done that or better?

Last season was pretty much regarded as a disappointment standings wise.

I honestly thought Nylander played really well last night
- walshyleafsfan

Same.

Though AA has a history of hating on Willie, presumably because Willie is prettier than he is

I honestly thought Nylander played really well last night
- walshyleafsfan

I think his game was fine. Everyone else seemed to be dialed-in, playing at a quicker pace. Willy just looked like himself. He slowed the game down to the pace he likes. Maybe that’s a good thing 🤷‍♂️

- lumlums

nice

Did you see the players being happy lasts night? The mood around the team looked so different. Everyone says that “the boys just want to play for him” about Keefe. It’s the kinda message this team really needed.

(frank) Babcock. Have fun fishing with your 6 million a year salary





- Santo_44

Didn't they buy him out, just over 23 mill?

Wait what?
- lumlums

That's what she said...

Didn't they buy him out, just over 23 mill?
- bobbyisno1

Does he not get his full salary?

I think he does

- lumlums

come on now... someone must have been thinking this...

Honestly I think that Babcock just wanted Matthews to become the best player possible (he referenced before this season that he could become the type of player Datsyuk was) - they way he communicates obviously rubs Matthews the wrong way.

The question is whether that's on the coach, the player - probably both.
But I don't think there has ever been 'bad faith' from Babcock's side.
He just pushes his stars the most.
- MaximusAurelius

Matthews is more of a Rick Nash fan

They make that money back in a 7 game playoff series and then some.
- bobbyisno1

Still tho, at the rate they were going plus the damages thats already been done playoffs this year is a bit of a strech. We need to go on a decent run and hope some others go on a slump too.

He had to to face the beast that is MLSE.