It's like Hak punched some of your pets or something.

Sort of ridiculous the amount of hate he gets
- opeth_pa

Some people get too attached to a guy. AMac, Weiss , lehrera. Sure they were bad for us but they’re still humans

There is no cat and mouse here. There's just you being wrong. Neither Corsi or +/- is a good stat to gauge player ability. I don't think you understand Corsi well or any derivative of it well. As I stated, Corsi has the same problem that +/- has. Let me know when you want to discuss it in good faith. Then maybe you'll be informed on where I stand.
- MJL

I disagree that Corsi has the same problem as +/- and your comment that "I don't understand it" is rude and not based in reality. So in this case, you are incorrect.

Corsi is a better indicator because of the sample size and the nature of what metric gets taken into account. With +/-, a player is a -1 if he stepped onto the ice for a goal that he had no part in but if he generated 10 scoring chances, hit a post, and got robbed by a goalie twice, he is given no credit. Yes, in Corsi if another player takes a shot that player A had no part in, he gets credit. However, shots occur way more often per game than goals do so it averages out, If a player was not involved in 2 shots against out of a total of 7 shots against in his time on ice, thats less of an extreme than not being involved in one goal and being penalized for it. Corsi paints a more accurate picture of the game as a whole rather than one or two events per game, like +/- does.

We can disagree on the merits of the various stats and metrics. But drop the "I am smarter than you and you don't know what you are talking about" pretense. I watch the games too and read plenty of literature regarding hockey and hockey statistics. I am by no means an expert but I know what I am talking about. You accuse me of not being able to argue in good faith but you yourself do the same.

Some people get too attached to a guy. AMac, Weiss , lehrera. Sure they were bad for us but they’re still humans
- arichardson22

Hak isn't human, he's a sleep paralysis demon

Do you think the Berube situation ran through Shanahan's head today? Let's make Hakstol the head coach, everything blows up in the Flyers faces, Hakstol will win the Cup here this year. I'm sure he considered it. Keefe's body of work with the Marlies won out.
- PLindbergh31

I am willing to bet my life's savings that Dubas did not take into consideration potential Flyer's fans misery if Hak wins a Cup when determining the next head coach of his hockey team

I disagree that Corsi has the same problem as +/- and your comment that "I don't understand it" is rude and not based in reality. So in this case, you are incorrect.


- bulet13

The very fact that you make this statement proves my point. It's not rude and it is real. As much as 30% or more of the data collected for Corsi is false data. You made numerous posts that a player can be on the ice for a goal against or for and not have anything to do with it. It is the same for shot attempts. That you don't obviously understand this is why you are wrong in stating that I'm incorrect. Corsi has the same problem as +/-.

Corsi is a better indicator because of the sample size and the nature of what metric gets taken into account. With +/-, a player is a -1 if he stepped onto the ice for a goal that he had no part in but if he generated 10 scoring chances, hit a post, and got robbed by a goalie twice, he is given no credit. Yes, in Corsi if another player takes a shot that player A had no part in, he gets credit. However, shots occur way more often per game than goals do so it averages out, If a player was not involved in 2 shots against out of a total of 7 shots against in his time on ice, thats less of an extreme than not being involved in one goal and being penalized for it. Corsi paints a more accurate picture of the game as a whole rather than one or two events per game, like +/- does.


- bulet13

The idea that it averages out is complete nonsense. More data does not cancel out false data. In fact it's the opposite. The more data, the more false data along with it. If you're using Corsi in anyway to rate a player, you're using it wrong. It cannot do that.

We can disagree on the merits of the various stats and metrics. But drop the "I am smarter than you and you don;t know what you are talking about" pretense. You accuse me of not being able to argue in good faith but you yourself do the same.
- bulet13

You got accused of not arguing in good faith because that's what you did. You falsely attributed statements and positions to me. I called you on it. You also came towards me challenging me, which is fine but if you do so, you need to be right. You weren't. Still aren't.

Like I said, if you want to dig into Corsi and have a discussion including why Corsi is an archaic stat that NHL teams don't use and why, we can do that.

Hak isn't human, he's a sleep paralysis demon
- Mordecai

🐿🐿🐿 He has sharp features

Hak isn't human, he's a sleep paralysis demon
- Mordecai

Lol! as a person Hak was a nice guy, as a coach not likable. Then you look at babcock who is a complete wiener as a person and has a rep for being great coach. I say rep because he’s fired lol

Really the best thing for Hakstol for his future if he wants to be an NHL head coach again is to become an assistant. Learn the league better, learn the NHL better under an experienced head coach. Hakstol is a very good hockey coach who was learning on the job to be an NHL head coach.

The very fact that you make this statement proves my point. It's not rude and it is real. As much as 30% or more of the data collected for Corsi is false data. You made numerous posts that a player can be on the ice for a goal against or for and not have anything to do with it. It is the same for shot attempts. That you don't obviously understand this is why you are wrong in stating that I'm incorrect. Corsi has the same problem as +/-.



The idea that it averages out is complete nonsense. More data does not cancel out false data. In fact it's the opposite. The more data, the more false data along with it. If you're using Corsi in anyway to rate a player, you're using it wrong. It cannot do that.




You got accused of not arguing in good faith because that's what you did. You falsely attributed statements and positions to me. I called you on it. You also came towards me challenging me, which is fine but if you do so, you need to be right. You weren't. Still aren't.

Like I said, if you want to dig into Corsi and have a discussion including why Corsi is an archaic stat that NHL teams don't use and why, we can do that.
- MJL

Here lies the problem. You are not the arbitrator of what is right. You do not argue in good faith because whenever someone opposes you, you say they are wrong and do not offer proof or a rebuttal. These bully tactics may work on others but not on me. You have yet to give me a valid reason to accept your analysis over mine or anyone else's. I am not looking for you to tell me whether I am right or not as your opinion on the matter means nothing. You saying I am wrong does not make it true, as you do not argue with facts, as much as you claim to.

So, to you i say that you are incorrect and your post just proves it more to me. Have a wonderful rest of your evening

Here lies the problem. You are not the arbitrator of what is right. You do not argue in good faith because whenever someone opposes you, you say they are wrong and do not offer proof or a rebuttal. These bully tactics may work on others but not on me. You have yet to give me a valid reason to accept your analysis over mine or anyone else's. I am not looking for you to tell me whether I am right or not as your opinion on the matter means nothing. You saying I am wrong does not make it true, as you do not argue with facts, as much as you claim to.

So, to you i say that you are incorrect and your post just proves it more to me. Have a wonderful rest of your evening
- bulet13

You're not correct here. I don't just state that something is wrong without offering why I think so. That's just not true. I'm always willing to elaborate why I have an opinion. It's not bully tactics. You pushed the conversation in this direction. I'll happily discuss it in depth and I've offered twice to do so. No one completely argues in facts so that statement that you made is silly.

Again, I'm willing to discuss it further. I've already posted why your statement that Corsi doesn't have the same issue as +/- was wrong. Yet you claim I don't offer why. Seems as though you're wrong about that. I can link that if need be.

It's like Hak punched some of your pets or something.

Sort of ridiculous the amount of hate he gets
- opeth_pa

Bad coaches tend to get that

I disagree that Corsi has the same problem as +/- and your comment that "I don't understand it" is rude and not based in reality. So in this case, you are incorrect.

Corsi is a better indicator because of the sample size and the nature of what metric gets taken into account. With +/-, a player is a -1 if he stepped onto the ice for a goal that he had no part in but if he generated 10 scoring chances, hit a post, and got robbed by a goalie twice, he is given no credit. Yes, in Corsi if another player takes a shot that player A had no part in, he gets credit. However, shots occur way more often per game than goals do so it averages out, If a player was not involved in 2 shots against out of a total of 7 shots against in his time on ice, thats less of an extreme than not being involved in one goal and being penalized for it. Corsi paints a more accurate picture of the game as a whole rather than one or two events per game, like +/- does.

We can disagree on the merits of the various stats and metrics. But drop the "I am smarter than you and you don't know what you are talking about" pretense. I watch the games too and read plenty of literature regarding hockey and hockey statistics. I am by no means an expert but I know what I am talking about. You accuse me of not being able to argue in good faith but you yourself do the same.
- bulet13

Dude, take it from me, you're wasting your time talking to him about this.

Dude, take it from me, you're wasting your time talking to him about this.
- Tomahawk

We've had multiple conversations on this. No reason to post this simply because it didn't go your way.

Dude, take it from me, you're wasting your time talking to him about this.
- Tomahawk

I know I know that's why I ended the conversation

Anyone see the rumor from Sam Carchidi that Johnny hockey is on the trade block? And trading Jake.
- Jdrini56

Calgary probably wants one of Sanheim or Myers along with Jake for JG + a 2nd.

Calgary probably wants one of Sanheim or Myers along with Jake for JG + a 2nd.
- Pixote Andolini

I have serious doubts that Gaudreau is being shopped. I'll believe when and if it happens.

We've had multiple conversations on this. No reason to post this simply because it didn't go your way.
- MJL

Do you think the Berube situation ran through Shanahan's head today? Let's make Hakstol the head coach, everything blows up in the Flyers faces, Hakstol will win the Cup here this year. I'm sure he considered it. Keefe's body of work with the Marlies won out.
- PLindbergh31

I was wondering if they would offer Hakstol the Marlies head coaching job.

- Tomahawk

You know me better than that. Honestly, you either want to get involved or you don't. I'm just simply stating the fact that you weren't able to counter my opinions on Corsi as a stat over multiple conversations effectively.

Let's go, Flyers!

- Tomahawk

i hate this gif for reasons i dont completely understand

You know me better than that. Honestly, you either want to get involved or you don't. I'm just simply stating the fact that you weren't able to counter my opinions on Corsi as a stat over multiple conversations effectively.
- MJL

- Tomahawk

Posting childish gifs doesn't reflect well on someone. My feeling is that the admirable adult thing to do is to choose to inject yourself into the conversation and have your say or to choose not to.

Top Six Favorite Flyers, in no order:

1) Terry Carkner - First Flyers Autograph, ca. 1991

2) Mikael Renberg - classiest mitts of the LOD, met him and got an autograph at Nobody Beats The Wiz in like 1995.

3) Rick Tocchet Pt. 1 - embodied everything Flyers in the late 80s/early 90s and was probably my first favorite Flyer (Pt. 2 and Pt. Moneyscheme I'm less fond of)

4) Kimmo Timonen - So elegant, played an entire career above his weight class, and Viking brave, I never witnessed a better man and leader who happened to be a world class hockey player.

5) Claude Giroux - Class, skill, longevity, civic commitment, the list goes on. Have loved every second and am trying to enjoy this guy in the paradoxical ever-present moment before he's gone and retired which will always come too soon.

6) Kent Manderville - the OG #28 and a pure gentleman who went like 160 games without a goal and I always loved a good underdog. Gutted when they traded him for Billy Tibbetts who was objectively a terrible person. I still wear my Manderville jersey with great pride, if a bit of trepidation that the new generation doesn't remember him.

It's like Hak punched some of your pets or something.

Sort of ridiculous the amount of hate he gets
- opeth_pa

He sucked. Not ridiculous at all.