tabarnak

- 21peter

It blows my mind that some are already plugging Robertson in on Matthews wing, and some are calling him a bust. By the time he's ready to come into the NHL the debate will be what Matthews UFA contract will be, and what kind of player he's going to be by the end of it. Heck, we might be back in 18 wheeler territory by then.
- leafsfann

I don't think anyone has slotted him for Matthews' wing.

The people who are correctly not calling it a bad pick are just saying that it was a good pick and that he's playing incredible in the OHL right now. Tied for the lead in goals and has played two less games than the guy he's tied with.

And that he shouldn't be written off because of his lack of size.

The thing is - Marner is not a good defensive player. Just because he's out on the PK doesn't mean he's defensively good. He reads the play well, he anticipates well, and he has dangerous acceleration which makes him a threat on the PK while not being a liability. In his time in the NHL I've seen him make some good or even above average 5v5 defensive plays - but it's not consistent, and he ends up running around in his own zone or losing his man in coverage with the rest of the group far too often. They are young, it's going to happen.

If you want to compare them, Nylander is definitely not as good at reading the play from a defensive posture, and while his top end speed is probably similar or maybe even faster, his initial acceleration is nowhere near that of Marner's. It makes him less of a threat on the PK, and also less effective - because the PK is about being able to move body position quickly in smaller spaces which guys like Marner and Kapanen excel at, but guys like Nylander, Tavares and Matthews don't.

As they develop into more rounded NHL players, both players can be far more effective defensively than they are, but Marner will always likely be a better option on the PK - and you're right, Nylander is not a great deployment there for those reasons.

I don't think the question should be - "who's better" because based on raw skill and performance, Marner is better. The question should be - "Why do so many people hate Nylander but give a pass to the rest of the team for the same things?"

The soft entitled lazy play of the Toronto Maple Leafs is evident this year in too many players - including Nylander - but really we're not collectively mad at the team, when we should be. We want a lightning rod, but while he has his share of lazy moments, I think Nylander brings a more consistent effort game in / game out than a lot of his peers on this team.
- Monkeypunk

I would concede that in a heartbeat in any conversation about Nylander. He is garbage on the backcheck, and shows little to no interest in it. If he's going to take the next step and be a good NHL player, he'll have to develop some semblance of those skills.

I take flak for this, but top me it's similar to Kessel. He's a wonderful and dynamic weapon to have in your arsenal, but he will cost you more than he will net you if you don't insulate him with players who can play on the other side of the puck. Note that they're not the same; Kessel is a great rusher and finisher on his own. Nylander is a great rusher.

Like anyone who gives a crap about the Leafs, I'd trade him for an equivalent defenseman, but I'm irritated by the hate directed at him.
- Monkeypunk

There is no comparison between Nylander and Kessel.

Nylander is comparable to Galchenyuk.

Matthews/Kessel is a more accurate comparison... as much as Leafs fans don't want to see it.

A lot of female doging and moaning in here after a win....

Marner has taken 2 penalties in OT that cost us the game;

Kapanen threw his broken stick at Petry to give MTL a penalty shot;

Johnsson says to the media that "we can't take penalties" and then goes on a penalty streak that lasted like 5-6 games;










Nylander makes one mistake, gets benched and demoted.
- gravyface

i agree👍









trade all of these little pencil necks👍🏿

There is no comparison between Nylander and Kessel.

Nylander is comparable to Galchenyuk.

Matthews/Kessel is a more accurate comparison... as much as Leafs fans don't want to see it.
- Aetherial

I get where you're coming from, but I don't think it's accurate for any number of reasons. Matthews can and has back checked effectively. Matthews knows that offense stems from defense, but half the time he doesn't do it. Or he's getting lost in his coverage - but he's there, which means he will get better. When we got Kessel, he arrived from a defensively sound Boston team at the age of 22 with no ability to play defense after 3 years of being told and taught to play defense surrounded by guys who were doing just that. Matthews is just 22 and is on a team that doesn't offer a lot of defensive role models, so he's still developing. I have faith in him. I'm not forgiving his inconsistent effort and play this year. He's a big man. He should learn to absorb hits and play his size.

Kessel was never down low in the defensive zone. If he was, someone probably whacked his stick there after knocking it out of his hands. Or he was running away from John Scott.

The similarity between the two is the lethal wrist shot. Kessel's similarities to Nylander are that he has good breakout speed and generates offense from the wing on the rush - but I agree that Nylander doesn't have the shot, so his offense is based on zone entry and then finding someone to dish with or finish for him.

There is no comparison between Nylander and Kessel.

Nylander is comparable to Galchenyuk.

Matthews/Kessel is a more accurate comparison... as much as Leafs fans don't want to see it.
- Aetherial

I don't think you can compare Matthews to Kessel. I think you are devaluing what Matthews brings to the table.

Nylander, I think the best comparable for him is Alexei Kovalev. A great player that decides when and how he wants to play.

I'm glad we won on Saturday night. (Andersen was excellent) but that 'fly-by' by Nylander that lead to the Sanheim goal was inexcusable. Even a tiny bump on him would have prevented Sanheim from going to the net..

There is no comparison between Nylander and Kessel.

Nylander is comparable to Galchenyuk.

Matthews/Kessel is a more accurate comparison... as much as Leafs fans don't want to see it.
- Aetherial

Explain

I don't think you can compare Matthews to Kessel. I think you are devaluing what Matthews brings to the table.

Nylander, I think the best comparable for him is Alexei Kovalev. A great player that decides when and how he wants to play.

I'm glad we won on Saturday night. (Andersen was excellent) but that 'fly-by' by Nylander that lead to the Sanheim goal was inexcusable. Even a tiny bump on him would have prevented Sanheim from going to the net..
- PatC80

Except nylander isnt a great player.
Hes a good player.

A lot of female doging and moaning in here after a win....
- Archaic

There should be. The Leafs are playing like garbage. They are uninspired and unmotivated. Philadelphia - a poor team coming off a back-to-back outplayed the Leafs and should have won. It just adds to the growing unease of the fans.

I look at this season, and I can't think of any game where the Leafs played a full 60. Maybe the best game they played was against St. Louis, and they lost that one.

If we want to get into excuse mode - yeah, the refs have not been in our corner for several games now, with maybe the exception of the Sharks game - but the Leafs should be good enough to play through it.

They have 7 wins, and that's great - when you consider that they probably only deserve to have 4 or 5.

Nylander didn’t get benched for “1 mistake”. Pretty sure the coach can see his lack of intensity on the back check, just like the rest of us....maybe the benching will light a fire under Willie, let’s hope. If AJ and little Timmie cab throw some checks, so can some of these other clowns, take the body, not the fly by stick check.


Go Leafs Go

I don't think you can compare Matthews to Kessel. I think you are devaluing what Matthews brings to the table.

Nylander, I think the best comparable for him is Alexei Kovalev. A great player that decides when and how he wants to play.

I'm glad we won on Saturday night. (Andersen was excellent) but that 'fly-by' by Nylander that lead to the Sanheim goal was inexcusable. Even a tiny bump on him would have prevented Sanheim from going to the net..
- PatC80

Aside from the fact that Kovalev had a ridiculous shot, could just deke and go through anyone in the league and was as strong as a goddamn horse.... yeah sure... they both had blond hair.

Hyman is practicing today..

Max must be so happy.

LA - 2 points
Vegas - 0 points
Hawks - 2 points
Flyers - 2 points

Then we’ll be off and running

Going to be a fun week!!!!

Aside from the fact that Kovalev had a ridiculous shot, could just deke and go through anyone in the league and was as strong as a goddamn horse.... yeah sure... they both had blond hair.
- Scabeh

Aside from the fact that Kovalev had a ridiculous shot, could just deke and go through anyone in the league and was as strong as a goddamn horse.... yeah sure... they both had blond hair.
- Scabeh

I think Nylander still has another level he can get too, he just doesn't always show it..

LA - 2 points
Vegas - 0 points
Hawks - 2 points
Flyers - 2 points

Then we’ll be off and running

Going to be a fun week!!!!
- Garnie

Leafs will beat the Kings so bad, Doughty will run into the Leafs locker room after the game refusing to go back.

Leafs will beat the Kings so bad, Doughty will run into the Leafs locker room after the game refusing to go back.
- Steven_Seagull

So, you're saying Kings win 7-1?

So, you're saying Kings win 7-1?
- PatC80

If we’re lucky, yes.

Except nylander isnt a great player.
Hes a good player.
- Fakepartofme

I can see the comparison he's making though. I don't think Kovalev was ever a great player. He had the potential to take over a game, and it happened on occasion. A great player does it all the time. We've seen Nylander do it in the World Champsionship - two years in a row. He can be that good. But he has to want it, and he needs support, because he isn't going to do it by himself. When Kovalev wanted to, he could do it by himself - so that is a differentiator. I mean there was that one year where he had 95 points . . . he was great. The rest of the time people talked about how good Kovalev was in practice.

But when I compare the two, I can see what Pat is saying: Two guys who can be so much more than they are most of the time, but the effort is just not consistently there or they are unwilling to play in areas of the ice they don't want to.

If we’re lucky, yes.
- Steven_Seagull

Oh ok, good.

Nylander didn’t get benched for “1 mistake”. Pretty sure the coach can see his lack of intensity on the back check, just like the rest of us....maybe the benching will light a fire under Willie, let’s hope. If AJ and little Timmie cab throw some checks, so can some of these other clowns, take the body, not the fly by stick check.


Go Leafs Go
- Garnie

Willie's pretty much modeling his game after Patty Kane. Willie's 0.3 hits/GP is exactly the same as Kane's career #'s

I can see the comparison he's making though. I don't think Kovalev was ever a great player. He had the potential to take over a game, and it happened on occasion. A great player does it all the time. We've seen Nylander do it in the World Champsionship - two years in a row. He can be that good. But he has to want it, and he needs support, because he isn't going to do it by himself. When Kovalev wanted to, he could do it by himself - so that is a differentiator. I mean there was that one year where he had 95 points . . . he was great. The rest of the time people talked about how good Kovalev was in practice.

But when I compare the two, I can see what Pat is saying: Two guys who can be so much more than they are most of the time, but the effort is just not consistently there or they are unwilling to play in areas of the ice they don't want to.
- Monkeypunk

That's exactly my point, thank you..

Nylander can be so much more, I don't know if it's about being lazy, or lacking passion or his 'give-a-poop meter is stuck at 0..
Similar to Kovalev, who at times, looked like an all-world player and other times looked like he didn't even want to be on the ice..
IMO, both Nylander and Kovalev are really good players that have, or had, more to give but couldn't or wouldn't do it with any consistency.

Willie's pretty much modeling his game after Patty Kane. Willie's 0.3 hits/GP is exactly the same as Kane's career #'s
- 21peter