What a terrible argument.

You know how easy it would be to list all the guys that were 5'9", 162 that didn't make it?

That doesn't even dive into the fact that Robertson isn't nearly as talented as the players you listed, nor does it speak to the larger point being that even if by some miracle he did become a top-six scoring winger, the Leafs already have too many of that type of undersized player, relegating him to the Trevor Moore role.
- JohnFergusonJr

Your reasoning only holds water, if you take - your opinion as fact - which it is not. This also offers some insight with respect to the popularity of some of your posts. I make mistakes regularly and will try to admit them, your opinions are stated as facts. Several experts, including Sam Consentino (who knows alot more than I do about junior players) had Robertson going in the first round of the draft. But according to you - they're all wrong - because reasons.

Bit awkward that people are argueing about Robertsson and whether he'll be an NHL'er yes or no. So far it seems like a great pick - let's all be happy about that and move on.

As for the Marner and Nylander discussion:
Marner actually kills penalties and gets deployed in difficult situations (without Hyman and JT as his regular teammates). Make some defensive errors, but actually plays defense.
Nylander will probably never in his NHL career be put on the PK - that says enough about his lack of defensive abilities.

Bit awkward that people are argueing about Robertsson and whether he'll be an NHL'er yes or no. So far it seems like a great pick - let's all be happy about that and move on.

As for the Marner and Nylander discussion:
Marner actually kills penalties and gets deployed in difficult situations (without Hyman and JT as his regular teammates). Make some defensive errors, but actually plays defense.
Nylander will probably never in his NHL career be put on the PK - that says enough about his lack of defensive abilities.
- MaximusAurelius

It blows my mind that some are already plugging Robertson in on Matthews wing, and some are calling him a bust. By the time he's ready to come into the NHL the debate will be what Matthews UFA contract will be, and what kind of player he's going to be by the end of it. Heck, we might be back in 18 wheeler territory by then.

Bit awkward that people are argueing about Robertsson and whether he'll be an NHL'er yes or no. So far it seems like a great pick - let's all be happy about that and move on.

As for the Marner and Nylander discussion:
Marner actually kills penalties and gets deployed in difficult situations (without Hyman and JT as his regular teammates). Make some defensive errors, but actually plays defense.
Nylander will probably never in his NHL career be put on the PK - that says enough about his lack of defensive abilities.
- MaximusAurelius

The thing is - Marner is not a good defensive player. Just because he's out on the PK doesn't mean he's defensively good. He reads the play well, he anticipates well, and he has dangerous acceleration which makes him a threat on the PK while not being a liability. In his time in the NHL I've seen him make some good or even above average 5v5 defensive plays - but it's not consistent, and he ends up running around in his own zone or losing his man in coverage with the rest of the group far too often. They are young, it's going to happen.

If you want to compare them, Nylander is definitely not as good at reading the play from a defensive posture, and while his top end speed is probably similar or maybe even faster, his initial acceleration is nowhere near that of Marner's. It makes him less of a threat on the PK, and also less effective - because the PK is about being able to move body position quickly in smaller spaces which guys like Marner and Kapanen excel at, but guys like Nylander, Tavares and Matthews don't.

As they develop into more rounded NHL players, both players can be far more effective defensively than they are, but Marner will always likely be a better option on the PK - and you're right, Nylander is not a great deployment there for those reasons.

I don't think the question should be - "who's better" because based on raw skill and performance, Marner is better. The question should be - "Why do so many people hate Nylander but give a pass to the rest of the team for the same things?"

The soft entitled lazy play of the Toronto Maple Leafs is evident this year in too many players - including Nylander - but really we're not collectively mad at the team, when we should be. We want a lightning rod, but while he has his share of lazy moments, I think Nylander brings a more consistent effort game in / game out than a lot of his peers on this team.

The thing is - Marner is not a good defensive player. Just because he's out on the PK doesn't mean he's defensively good. He reads the play well, he anticipates well, and he has dangerous acceleration which makes him a threat on the PK while not being a liability. In his time in the NHL I've seen him make some good or even above average 5v5 defensive plays - but it's not consistent, and he ends up running around in his own zone or losing his man in coverage with the rest of the group far too often. They are young, it's going to happen.

If you want to compare them, Nylander is definitely not as good at reading the play from a defensive posture, and while his top end speed is probably similar or maybe even faster, his initial acceleration is nowhere near that of Marner's. It makes him less of a threat on the PK, and also less effective - because the PK is about being able to move body position quickly in smaller spaces which guys like Marner and Kapanen excel at, but guys like Nylander, Tavares and Matthews don't.

As they develop into more rounded NHL players, both players can be far more effective defensively than they are, but Marner will always likely be a better option on the PK - and you're right, Nylander is not a great deployment there for those reasons.

I don't think the question should be - "who's better" because based on raw skill and performance, Marner is better. The question should be - "Why do so many people hate Nylander but give a pass to the rest of the team for the same things?"

The soft entitled lazy play of the Toronto Maple Leafs is evident this year in too many players - including Nylander - but really we're not collectively mad at the team, when we should be. We want a lightning rod, but while he has his share of lazy moments, I think Nylander brings a more consistent effort game in / game out than a lot of his peers on this team.
- Monkeypunk

Truthiest post going right now.

Everyone wants a scapegoat and Nylander's such an easy target with that flow and possession style he plays.

The entire team needs a wake-up call if they want to be playing confidently into April.

I do think getting some of their worker bees back in JT and Hyman (and Muzzin) will go a long way here, which will also shift some depth down to the bottom 6, and that should make us harder to play against.

Bit awkward that people are argueing about Robertsson and whether he'll be an NHL'er yes or no. So far it seems like a great pick - let's all be happy about that and move on.

As for the Marner and Nylander discussion:
Marner actually kills penalties and gets deployed in difficult situations (without Hyman and JT as his regular teammates). Make some defensive errors, but actually plays defense.
Nylander will probably never in his NHL career be put on the PK - that says enough about his lack of defensive abilities.
- MaximusAurelius

Yes on Robertson.

Our pk sucks. It's not a compliment to say someone is on it.

Yes on Robertson.

Our pk sucks. It's not a compliment to say someone is on it.
- Tumbleweed

PK sucks mainly because of goalie and defenders.
We actually have good PK'ing FWs (Mikheyev, Kapanen, Marner, Hyman)

Truthiest post going right now.

Everyone wants a scapegoat and Nylander's such an easy target with that flow and possession style he plays.

The entire team needs a wake-up call if they want to be playing confidently into April.

I do think getting some of their worker bees back in JT and Tavares (and Muzzin) will go a long way here, which will also shift some depth down to the bottom 6, and that should make us harder to play against.
- gravyface

I know you meant to add in Hyman there, but that's it exactly. They need people to help set the pace of play. Hyman does a good job of that. He's also about the only Leaf who forechecks effectively. Moore - perhaps because of his role being changed - isn't as aggressive on the forecheck as he was last year. Maybe it's because he's facing harder competition. I don't know - but I know that the Leafs have no one who is making life hard on the opposition when they want to break out with the puck.

Tavares is a good presence in the neutral zone and helps to create turnovers mid-ice or high in the zone. Largely because he reads the play well, and Hyman's pressure can create some havoc. A good forecheck is so effective. I think both the Islanders and Hurricanes employ a fast and hard team forecheck to good effect. We have Hyman.

I know you meant to add in Hyman there, but that's it exactly. They need people to help set the pace of play. Hyman does a good job of that. He's also about the only Leaf who forechecks effectively. Moore - perhaps because of his role being changed - isn't as aggressive on the forecheck as he was last year. Maybe it's because he's facing harder competition. I don't know - but I know that the Leafs have no one who is making life hard on the opposition when they want to break out with the puck.

Tavares is a good presence in the neutral zone and helps to create turnovers mid-ice or high in the zone. Largely because he reads the play well, and Hyman's pressure can create some havoc. A good forecheck is so effective. I think both the Islanders and Hurricanes employ a fast and hard team forecheck to good effect. We have Hyman.
- Monkeypunk

Mickey hasn't been nearly as aggressive as he was; it's hard work do that every shift, so sometimes those guys with tenacity/forecheck/energy as their claim to fame are better suited in the bottom 6 with limited minutes, because it takes a special player to do that every shift.

I do think Mickey is more skilled than Moore for sure.

That's why I like Hyman so much: that dude rarely (if ever) takes a shift off.

Bit awkward that people are argueing about Robertsson and whether he'll be an NHL'er yes or no. So far it seems like a great pick - let's all be happy about that and move on.

As for the Marner and Nylander discussion:
Marner actually kills penalties and gets deployed in difficult situations (without Hyman and JT as his regular teammates). Make some defensive errors, but actually plays defense.
Nylander will probably never in his NHL career be put on the PK - that says enough about his lack of defensive abilities.
- MaximusAurelius

Just like Patrick Kane's 57:42 penalty kill mins during his 916 games says a lot about his defensive qualities...

The thing is - Marner is not a good defensive player. Just because he's out on the PK doesn't mean he's defensively good. He reads the play well, he anticipates well, and he has dangerous acceleration which makes him a threat on the PK while not being a liability. In his time in the NHL I've seen him make some good or even above average 5v5 defensive plays - but it's not consistent, and he ends up running around in his own zone or losing his man in coverage with the rest of the group far too often. They are young, it's going to happen.

If you want to compare them, Nylander is definitely not as good at reading the play from a defensive posture, and while his top end speed is probably similar or maybe even faster, his initial acceleration is nowhere near that of Marner's. It makes him less of a threat on the PK, and also less effective - because the PK is about being able to move body position quickly in smaller spaces which guys like Marner and Kapanen excel at, but guys like Nylander, Tavares and Matthews don't.

As they develop into more rounded NHL players, both players can be far more effective defensively than they are, but Marner will always likely be a better option on the PK - and you're right, Nylander is not a great deployment there for those reasons.

I don't think the question should be - "who's better" because based on raw skill and performance, Marner is better. The question should be - "Why do so many people hate Nylander but give a pass to the rest of the team for the same things?"

The soft entitled lazy play of the Toronto Maple Leafs is evident this year in too many players - including Nylander - but really we're not collectively mad at the team, when we should be. We want a lightning rod, but while he has his share of lazy moments, I think Nylander brings a more consistent effort game in / game out than a lot of his peers on this team.
- Monkeypunk

Appreciate the pov, but willie is simply not consistent, and his effort is spotty at best at times. Its so easy to see why people dont like his play. Hes an easy target because of that and the undeserved pedestal certain "fans" put him on.
But at times, he does look good....just not consistently lately.
As for marner, he is good defensively or has been but so far this year, hes made some brain farts. Which is unusual for him. His overall play needs to improve as well. That contract has put on target on his back and rightfully so.
Completely agree that the overall team defense sucks.
But it has for years....no matter what players weve had

Truthiest post going right now.

Everyone wants a scapegoat and Nylander's such an easy target with that flow and possession style he plays.

The entire team needs a wake-up call if they want to be playing confidently into April.

I do think getting some of their worker bees back in JT and Hyman (and Muzzin) will go a long way here, which will also shift some depth down to the bottom 6, and that should make us harder to play against.
- gravyface

The problem with Nylander is he never seems to give a second effort going the defensive way...you can see guys like Kap - AJ - Moore - Marner etc etc all give a 2nd effort every time they lose the puck or it goes the other way...Nylander not so much. The Nylander sucks group is large and wide ( most want him to be awesome ) it doesn’t just exist on HB. He’s a really good player, but he could be great. That’s my 2 cents....

I’d only trade him for a stud RHD like Hamilton etc because he still brings a lot up front...which isn’t going to happen so...GO NYLANDER GO 😬🥴

Your reasoning only holds water, if you take - your opinion as fact - which it is not. This also offers some insight with respect to the popularity of some of your posts. I make mistakes regularly and will try to admit them, your opinions are stated as facts. Several experts, including Sam Consentino (who knows alot more than I do about junior players) had Robertson going in the first round of the draft. But according to you - they're all wrong - because reasons.
- winsix

I honestly who really cares what a kid is doing or not doing in the ohl. Neither means he will or will not make the nhl.
He has good stats, good to see.
Not sure why people have to rag on him now.
Some like to b!tch or at least be a counter point to the koolaid drinkers on here i guess.

It blows my mind that some are already plugging Robertson in on Matthews wing, and some are calling him a bust. By the time he's ready to come into the NHL the debate will be what Matthews UFA contract will be, and what kind of player he's going to be by the end of it. Heck, we might be back in 18 wheeler territory by then.
- leafsfann

Very true
Im hoping matthews plus is traded for mcjesus by then.
Lol
Ya i know...one can dream

Yes on Robertson.

Our pk sucks. It's not a compliment to say someone is on it.
- Tumbleweed

Well our pk is middle of the pack and how many 90pt players play on the pk?

- AdamFrench

Shut the hell up, and write another blog you lazy hack.

Well our pk is middle of the pack and how many 90pt players play on the pk?
- Fakepartofme

Our PK sucks, and it’s Marner’s fault.


Tavares is hurt, Matthews = God, and Nylander is Bae. Gotta blame someone else.

Appreciate the pov, but willie is simply not consistent, and his effort is spotty at best at times. Its so easy to see why people dont like his play. Hes an easy target because of that and the undeserved pedestal certain "fans" put him on.
But at times, he does look good....just not consistently lately.
As for marner, he is good defensively or has been but so far this year, hes made some brain farts. Which is unusual for him. His overall play needs to improve as well. That contract has put on target on his back and rightfully so.
Completely agree that the overall team defense sucks.
But it has for years....no matter what players weve had
- Fakepartofme

I can appreciate that. Nylander's lack of effort on the back check is very apparent. I think if I was grading the team out (and it's not like I have, so it's my impression at this point), I think Nylander may have had more games so far this season where I felt he looked more effective. There are a number of games where I haven't felt that Matthews or Marner looked - consistently throughout a game - like they were particularly effective. There are always shifts where someone doesn't get the resistance or whatever and they play well, but shift-in-shift out for an entire game - no one has brought that so far this year.

For me, I don't think Marner has played well on D (at least not as well he can). He has definitely had moments - and if you compare him to Matthews, Nylander, Johnsson or Kapanen, he's probably had more good moments than they have.

Honestly, while the contact is more than it should have been, I'm less concerned about any of their contracts, and far more concerned with an overall lack of consistency shift-to-shift let alone game-to-game.

The problem with Nylander is he never seems to give a second effort going the defensive way...you can see guys like Kap - AJ - Moore - Marner etc etc all give a 2nd effort every time they lose the puck or it goes the other way...Nylander not so much. The Nylander sucks group is large and wide ( most want him to be awesome ) it doesn’t just exist on HB. He’s a really good player, but he could be great. That’s my 2 cents....

I’d only trade him for a stud RHD like Hamilton etc because he still brings a lot up front...which isn’t going to happen so...GO NYLANDER GO 😬🥴
- Garnie

I would concede that in a heartbeat in any conversation about Nylander. He is garbage on the backcheck, and shows little to no interest in it. If he's going to take the next step and be a good NHL player, he'll have to develop some semblance of those skills.

I take flak for this, but top me it's similar to Kessel. He's a wonderful and dynamic weapon to have in your arsenal, but he will cost you more than he will net you if you don't insulate him with players who can play on the other side of the puck. Note that they're not the same; Kessel is a great rusher and finisher on his own. Nylander is a great rusher.

Like anyone who gives a crap about the Leafs, I'd trade him for an equivalent defenseman, but I'm irritated by the hate directed at him.

Shut the hell up, and write another blog you lazy hack.
- Steven_Seagull

About time someone said it.

I would concede that in a heartbeat in any conversation about Nylander. He is garbage on the backcheck, and shows little to no interest in it. If he's going to take the next step and be a good NHL player, he'll have to develop some semblance of those skills.

I take flak for this, but top me it's similar to Kessel. He's a wonderful and dynamic weapon to have in your arsenal, but he will cost you more than he will net you if you don't insulate him with players who can play on the other side of the puck. Note that they're not the same; Kessel is a great rusher and finisher on his own. Nylander is a great rusher.

Like anyone who gives a crap about the Leafs, I'd trade him for an equivalent defenseman, but I'm irritated by the hate directed at him.
- Monkeypunk

He's the whipping boy for now, nobody cares about mistakes and missed nets etc, its the lack of intensity on the defensive side. Of course he looks like Gretzky going offensively and has great offensive stats, but he's usually the farthest guy from his own net and the 1st one to receive a pass exiting the zone ( especially with his center being a lefty and he's on the right side. ) So exits don't excite me much, he's entries are usually pretty awesome, he just needs to get more out of them...again...just my thoughts this beautiful snowy Monday morning.

About time someone said it.
- Scabeh

yeah, anything French is f'n annoying...

yeah, anything French is f'n annoying...
- 21peter

Kakko Kappo?

More like CACA Kappo! HAHAHAHA.

Kakko Kappo?

More like CACA Kappo! HAHAHAHA.
- Scabeh

tabarnak