I did that already, I drafted Dubnyk
- PatC80

I had Dubnyk the two years before this. I come up with my fancy smancy excel sheet to rank players. Before I got to the draft I probably said to myself 15 times "Whatever you do, don't draft Dubnyk. You weren't going to last year and look what happened. Don't (frank)ing do it!"

He kept slipping and was sitting at the top of my board.

Kept slipping.

Then.

I laughed when some other poor sucker drafter him and will find out what a monumental pain in the Richard of a fantasy goalie he is.

Any Goalie can play b2b, thats not the issue.
The Leafs are trying to reduce Andersens workload during the reg season, so its dumb to play him 2 days in a row.

based on his own comments after the Season, and Babs decisions this season, they are clearly going to do that.

the issue is the backups have not been good enough, so there is crying about Andersen not playing. Dubas has to figure out the backup.

too bad Marner got 2 mil more than he should have to leave ZERO (frank)ing space to help
- senstroll

I’m sure every goalie is different, but Raycroft was on leafs lunch yesterday and said he would rather play b2b and take the next game off.

Basically if you play fri, sat, tue, thursday one week. He would rather play fri and sat. Have a good practice with goalie coach and take the night off tuesday. You have a longer stretch between games and then you play the Thursday.

I’m no goalie but that seems more enticing then playing fri, tues, Thursday.

There are guys that don't look too good right now. My thing is this is s weird makeup for a team. As much as there are effort issues sometimes they look lost. Guys are all over the place, zero flow, everyone out of position forcing stupid chancy passes. Might come out of it but I think it's just a bad mix of guys.

I’m sure every goalie is different, but Raycroft was on leafs lunch yesterday and said he would rather play b2b and take the next game off.

Basically if you play fri, sat, tue, thursday one week. He would rather play fri and sat. Have a good practice with goalie coach and take the night off tuesday. You have a longer stretch between games and then you play the Thursday.

I’m know goalie but that seems more enticing then playing fri, tues, Thursday.
- bryant

Makes sense. Traditionally coach would just play the number 1 against the better teams and play the backup against bottom feeders regardless giving the 1 rest time all the time. Babs has a weird perspective IMO.

I dont care about style, I care about overall results

Marner has 50% more cap than Nylander, so he has to be better..by a lot
- senstroll

12 points vs 7 points. So, he is. And I don't give a (frank) about 5v5 or PP time.

Marner playing "poorly" is still leading the team in points while killing penalties.

Nylander actually playing poorly had him finish last year with 27 points.

Marner blows Nylander out of the water.

I had Dubnyk the two years before this. I come up with my fancy smancy excel sheet to rank players. Before I got to the draft I probably said to myself 15 times "Whatever you do, don't draft Dubnyk. You weren't going to last year and look what happened. Don't (frank)ing do it!"

He kept slipping and was sitting at the top of my board.

Kept slipping.

Then.

I laughed when some other poor sucker drafter him and will find out what a monumental pain in the Richard of a fantasy goalie he is.
- RickJames77

I'm that sucker...

12 points vs 7 points. So, he is. And I don't give a (frank) about 5v5 or PP time.

Marner playing "poorly" is still leading the team in points while killing penalties.

Nylander actually playing poorly had him finish last year with 27 points.

Marner blows Nylander out of the water.
- JohnFergusonJr

If they both keep playing the way they are playing Marner will have like 7 5v5 points...points don't matter if you are playing like crap..it'll catch up to him like it has the past few games.

How many points does Marner have per PP minute? It just be a lot because they get so few PPs

I'm that sucker...
- PatC80

He's just been a system goalie IMO. His numbers look good, but you look at goals saved above expected it's nothing pretty. Actually, I think he's been negative the last 4 or 5 years IIRC. Those teams he was on were just solid defensively and helped inflate his numbers. It's not like he was any good before he got to Minny anyways. He was in Edmonton, sucked, then went to..Arizona? I think, and sucked there too.

He's just been a system goalie IMO. His numbers look good, but you look at goals saved above expected it's nothing pretty. Actually, I think he's been negative the last 4 or 5 years IIRC. Those teams he was on were just solid defensively and helped inflate his numbers. It's not like he was any good before he got to Minny anyways. He was in Edmonton, sucked, then went to..Arizona? I think, and sucked there too.
- RickJames77

To be fair, he just kept falling and falling and I needed a goalie.

Anyone hear Chris Johnston on SN590 The FAN?


Seems like no one in Leaf land is happy.. Maybe changes are coming soon?

If they both keep playing the way they are playing Marner will have like 7 5v5 points...points don't matter if you are playing like crap..it'll catch up to him like it has the past few games.
- Santo_44

If Marner was a career 50 point player, yeah, maybe people should actually be worried. But he scored 94 points last year. The kid is bursting with offensive talent and is being given defensive responsibilities that would make Nylander's beautiful hair turn grey if not fall out completely.

The reality is, the entire team is playing poopty, not just Marner. It's not like everybody is playing great and Marner is the only one day dreaming. The difference is, Marner is still making things happen and keeping the team afloat in the one category it actually still succeeds in; scoring goals.

The reality also is that certain fans, you included, have these increased expectations because of his contract. There's a lot of people here holding summer grudges because he got paid what he got paid. At the same time, Nylander has lowered expectations because he scored 7 goals and 27 points last year and missed a quarter of the season holding out so him being on the ice in itself is an improvement.

The comparison is inherently skewed because people are expecting Marner to be leading the league in everything and just happy that Nylander isn't as bad as he was last year (which was atrocious by the way).

They're both going to be fine as the games progress and everybody knows that everybody needs to be better than they have been. Part of that is on Babcock, part of that is on the players and part of that is on Dubas because he's got to make changes to this lineup and bring in some players that have different skills, attributes and attitudes.

If Marner was a career 50 point player, yeah, maybe people should actually be worried. But he scored 94 points last year. The kid is bursting with offensive talent and is being given defensive responsibilities that would make Nylander's beautiful hair turn grey if not fall out completely.

The reality is, the entire team is playing poopty, not just Marner. It's not like everybody is playing great and Marner is the only one day dreaming. The difference is, Marner is still making things happen and keeping the team afloat in the one category it actually still succeeds in; scoring goals.

The reality also is that certain fans, you included, have these increased expectations because of his contract. There's a lot of people here holding summer grudges because he got paid what he got paid. At the same time, Nylander has lowered expectations because he scored 7 goals and 27 points last year and missed a quarter of the season holding out so him being on the ice in itself is an improvement.

The comparison is inherently skewed because people are expecting Marner to be leading the league in everything and just happy that Nylander isn't as bad as he was last year (which was atrocious by the way).

They're both going to be fine as the games progress and everybody knows that everybody needs to be better than they have been. Part of that is on Babcock, part of that is on the players and part of that is on Dubas because he's got to make changes to this lineup and bring in some players that have different skills, attributes and attitudes.
- JohnFergusonJr

All I see is Nylander playing well 5v5 and Marner is not.

And Marner makes 4 more million per season....Yeah, Marner deserves all the heat he is getting. The same heat Nylander got last year.

Will Marner return to form? Extremely likely. Does he deserve the heat he is getting? Absolutely.

If Marner was a career 50 point player, yeah, maybe people should actually be worried. But he scored 94 points last year. The kid is bursting with offensive talent and is being given defensive responsibilities that would make Nylander's beautiful hair turn grey if not fall out completely.

The reality is, the entire team is playing poopty, not just Marner. It's not like everybody is playing great and Marner is the only one day dreaming. The difference is, Marner is still making things happen and keeping the team afloat in the one category it actually still succeeds in; scoring goals.

The reality also is that certain fans, you included, have these increased expectations because of his contract. There's a lot of people here holding summer grudges because he got paid what he got paid. At the same time, Nylander has lowered expectations because he scored 7 goals and 27 points last year and missed a quarter of the season holding out so him being on the ice in itself is an improvement.

The comparison is inherently skewed because people are expecting Marner to be leading the league in everything and just happy that Nylander isn't as bad as he was last year (which was atrocious by the way).

They're both going to be fine as the games progress and everybody knows that everybody needs to be better than they have been. Part of that is on Babcock, part of that is on the players and part of that is on Dubas because he's got to make changes to this lineup and bring in some players that have different skills, attributes and attitudes.
- JohnFergusonJr

All I see is Nylander playing well 5v5 and Marner is not.

And Marner makes 4 more million per season....Yeah, Marner deserves all the heat he is getting. The same heat Nylander got last year.

Will Marner return to form? Extremely likely. Does he deserve the heat he is getting? Absolutely.

If Marner was a career 50 point player, yeah, maybe people should actually be worried. But he scored 94 points last year. The kid is bursting with offensive talent and is being given defensive responsibilities that would make Nylander's beautiful hair turn grey if not fall out completely.

The reality is, the entire team is playing poopty, not just Marner. It's not like everybody is playing great and Marner is the only one day dreaming. The difference is, Marner is still making things happen and keeping the team afloat in the one category it actually still succeeds in; scoring goals.

The reality also is that certain fans, you included, have these increased expectations because of his contract. There's a lot of people here holding summer grudges because he got paid what he got paid. At the same time, Nylander has lowered expectations because he scored 7 goals and 27 points last year and missed a quarter of the season holding out so him being on the ice in itself is an improvement.

The comparison is inherently skewed because people are expecting Marner to be leading the league in everything and just happy that Nylander isn't as bad as he was last year (which was atrocious by the way).

They're both going to be fine as the games progress and everybody knows that everybody needs to be better than they have been. Part of that is on Babcock, part of that is on the players and part of that is on Dubas because he's got to make changes to this lineup and bring in some players that have different skills, attributes and attitudes.
- JohnFergusonJr

Spin it any way you want, but as it stands right now, at 5 on 5, Marner isn't doing much. We can speculate how the season will go, but we need him to produce more, now and later on in the season..

We can't compare Nylander to Marner, because Marner makes $4M more than Nylander.

To be fair, he just kept falling and falling and I needed a goalie.
- PatC80

I'm not knocking you. I just felt like for a few years he was held as a quality goalie in the league and I think just having him on my roster for a few years made me pay more attention and form an opposite opinion.

Anyone hear Chris Johnston on SN590 The FAN?


Seems like no one in Leaf land is happy.. Maybe changes are coming soon?
- PatC80

They're not going to do anything until Hyman, Dermott and Tavares are all back. If they still suck, they'll call somebody up from the Marlies. If they still suck after that, they'll do (frank) all until the deadline because of the cap.

This is 95% the team they'll have until the end of the playoffs, for better or for worse.

They basically would have to hope there are teams out there that lose 10-15 games in a row and suck so bad that they decide to blow up their team and then have to decide to trade Nylander before they could make any real, impactful move to make any kind of real change to the team.

Anyone hear Chris Johnston on SN590 The FAN?


Seems like no one in Leaf land is happy.. Maybe changes are coming soon?
- PatC80

#firebabcock
#hirekrueger

I'm not knocking you. I just felt like for a few years he was held as a quality goalie in the league and I think just having him on my roster for a few years made me pay more attention and form an opposite opinion.
- RickJames77

I don't see it as a knock... More a swift kick in the teeth..

Anyone hear Chris Johnston on SN590 The FAN?


Seems like no one in Leaf land is happy.. Maybe changes are coming soon?
- PatC80

Knee jerk reactions?

Ha.

The anger is pointed towards the big guys, the supporting cast.(Kap, Kerfoot, Moore, Miky) Have all been great considering their value.

Matthews, Marner, Rielly need to bring it. I think the return of Dermott will help Rielly immensely. If it doesn't I don't see Dubas sitting on his hands watching Ceci with Rielly for too much longer.

They're not going to do anything until Hyman, Dermott and Tavares are all back. If they still suck, they'll call somebody up from the Marlies. If they still suck after that, they'll do (frank) all until the deadline because of the cap.

This is 95% the team they'll have until the end of the playoffs, for better or for worse.

They basically would have to hope there are teams out there that lose 10-15 games in a row and suck so bad that they decide to blow up their team and then have to decide to trade Nylander before they could make any real, impactful move to make any kind of real change to the team.
- JohnFergusonJr

You could be right... With all due respect to Hyman and Dermott, but if we are relying on them to push us over the top, I think we might be in trouble.

All I see is Nylander playing well 5v5 and Marner is not.

And Marner makes 4 more million per season....Yeah, Marner deserves all the heat he is getting. The same heat Nylander got last year.

Will Marner return to form? Extremely likely. Does he deserve the heat he is getting? Absolutely.
- Santo_44

That's all you see because that's all you want to see.

Marner didn't miss games because of holding out and he's also not complete dogpoop on the scoresheet. He doesn't deserve even half the heat Nylander got. Nylander actually missed games and then was invisible in the majority of the ones he played in. Nylander legit hurt the team in a big way.

Knee jerk reactions?

Ha.

The anger is pointed towards the big guys, the supporting cast.(Kap, Kerfoot, Moore, Miky) Have all been great considering their value.

Matthews, Marner, Rielly need to bring it. I think the return of Dermott will help Rielly immensely. If it doesn't I don't see Dubas sitting on his hands watching Ceci with Rielly for too much longer.
- Santo_44

Are there better reactions?


We need the big guys to step up.. I don't think they'll do something now.. maybe in January if the Leafs are still struggling

How many points does Marner have per PP minute? It just be a lot because they get so few PPs
- aminnes

His Pts/60 on the PP is fantastic - he's 5th in the league behind Pastrnak, McDavid, Konecny and Stone.

If you give Marner time and space, he's a very effective player. I don't think anyone who's a Leaf fan wants to say he isn't. But at 5v5 right NOW, Marner is not playing hard enough or well enough to be effective. Teams are closing on him quickly, and he's not playing the way he did for much of last year. Part of that can be that Marner needs to have an option. If there are players giving him a clear option, he'll get the pass to them most of the time. Kapanen and Matthews, I don't think, give him good options @ 5v5.

Marner is a better hockey player; in a different draft year he could have easily been a #1 choice. But right now when the play around him is difficult, he's less effective than Nylander in similar situations.

Spin it any way you want, but as it stands right now, at 5 on 5, Marner isn't doing much. We can speculate how the season will go, but we need him to produce more, now and later on in the season..

We can't compare Nylander to Marner, because Marner makes $4M more than Nylander.
- PatC80

Let's make it even simpler:

We need him to care more.