I believe Crow still has all of the tools to be what we expect. Look no further than his performance against the Oilers. He stopped McDavid and Draisaitl both point blank on breakaways - two of the best currently in the league. There isn't much continuity to the team right now. Goalies getting every other game, long layoffs between games, etc. This doesn't excuse poor performances, but it can contribute to hesitation which can lead to sloppy play and "bad" goals.

We're tied for the fewest number of games played in the league. No one wants to give away points, but I don't think it is as cut and dried as the goalie isn't good anymore.
- Chunk

I think you make some good points. But Chicago isn't buildt as a powerhouse which means they need as many points as possible.
Their playing at home which should make it easier with the crowd , etc to win more games and their record is awful.

I'd also then start to question the coaching staff, isn't it their job to have these guys prepared , they have enough time to practice and correct all these issues, power play, breakouts , defensive zone , getting their line combinations nailed down and chemistry being established.

Hey, where's Smith?
- Chunk

I read a few days ago he was using another maintenance day. That's ALL that was reported

The problem I have is with the word "should". When goalies do stop those shots, is it because they are lucky, more skilled, quicker, smarter, better team in front of them? This is why I spread the wealth on the reason(s) for failure.
- Chunk

Wouldn't that mean that the goalie has fault in every goal scored while he's on the ice? If he could have stopped it 1 of 1000 times....

What I noticed the past couple of games as opposed to last year is a significant decline in odd man rushes against. Also Washington is probably the heaviest team style wise in the league (Vegas is next), and I don't think the Hawks were" ragdolled" or shied away from contact at all (and that includes Nylander).
- LAHawk

Outside of their 4th line, I wouldn't deem Vegas a heavy team. They use speed to establish their forecheck. The Blues play a heavier style.

All 4 on defensive breakdowns in my book
- BetweenTheDots

2 of which were caused by bad puck management. One was caused by a blatant interference and Ovie is going to get his chances. Plus, Carlson made a vg play.

I think you make some good points. But Chicago isn't buildt as a powerhouse which means they need as many points as possible.
Their playing at home which should make it easier with the crowd , etc to win more games and their record is awful.

I'd also then start to question the coaching staff, isn't it their job to have these guys prepared , they have enough time to practice and correct all these issues, power play, breakouts , defensive zone , getting their line combinations nailed down and chemistry being established.
- Taylorst1

Just because the coach points out the issues that need to be corrected isn't a guaranteed the player can execute the corrections.

Wouldn't that mean that the goalie has fault in every goal scored while he's on the ice? If he could have stopped it 1 of 1000 times....
- mohel

Forgive me, I have a very analytical background... Technically, yes the goalie has "some" fault in every goal that is scored. Some goals much more so than others. I was less making a point and more asking the question in my last post. When those high danger saves are made, what is the difference? I personally believe that Crow is still a very good goalie in this league. Where do I place him exactly, I don't know because I still see a lot of confusion in our own end which leads to exactly what we are discussing. That Oilers game, the D was much more locked down, but he also made some crazy saves against the some of the best talent in the league.

I think the skill is still there. I just don't know if it is consistent or as high as it used to be. I'm willing to wait for a larger sample size (to answer this specific point).

Just because the coach points out the issues that need to be corrected isn't a guaranteed the player can execute the corrections.
- Elbows15

Ding, Ding, Ding! Not keep coming back to him, but Gus has been harped on for the last three years about his D. He even mentioned it directly in his exit interview last year, and there is an argument to be made that he is a bit worse in that department right now.

Wouldn't that mean that the goalie has fault in every goal scored while he's on the ice? If he could have stopped it 1 of 1000 times....
- mohel

Mohel I also laid blame on their defense. My point regarding Crawford was if you take his 4 starts , 3 of those games he has given up 4 goals or more . Where as Lehner his numbers are better even though they lost in ot he still helped earn the team 1 point and has made the saves that nobody thought could be, that's what is missing from Crawford right now is finding that extra gear he has .

Chicago's lack of offense right now means they need to win games 3-2 , 2-1 and a few 4-3 games.

Chunk said it best , luck, quicker , better ,etc is a good way of explaining it

Hawks with 5 games in 8 nights beginning Tuesday. Good time to establish some set lines and keep them together for several games to develop some chemistry and see how things work out.

Caggiula Toews Kane (worked well last season)

Cat Strome Kubalik (reunite Cat and Strome with Kubalik adding the 200 foot game)

Saad Dach Shaw (Dach drafted as center see what he could there and the line as a whole combines scoring potential and defense)

Carpenter Kampf Nylander

The Corey Crawford who just over 2 years ago made the saves that nobody thought could be made now , when this team needs a goaltender who can make those saves he isn't able to. His numbers reflect that.

This team went f4om being able to score In their top 6 and having a bottom 6 that was lackluster to a top 6 that seems to be struggling to muster up any sustained offensive threat and a bottom 6 that is doing the job we needed.

That goal Crawford gave up during the 4 minute power play , that's where Crawford needed to come up big that goal deflated any chance for any momentum. Sure their was a breakdown but with Crawford's pedigree he needs to himself play better giving up in 4 starts 3 of them 4 goals or more .
- Taylorst1

You have no (frank)ing idea what you're talking about and continue to show it with your idiotic posts

Just because the coach points out the issues that need to be corrected isn't a guaranteed the player can execute the corrections.
- Elbows15

Ok I get your point, but then again wouldn't a more experienced coach or coaching staff address those concerns by having more experience in evaluating talent and implementing a system that compliments his players? And for those players whom can't be corrected you either find a way as a more experienced coach to get them to buy in and or you start benching players to send a message.

Toews hasn't been all that great this year and he is also a extension of the coaching staff by virtue of the C he wears on his chest? Maybe you pull the captaincy from him and give it to Kane?

That might seem a bit extreme or silly but at 10.5 million a year their does come great expectations from him.

Hawks with 5 games in 8 nights beginning Tuesday. Good time to establish some set lines and keep them together for several games to develop some chemistry and see how things work out.

Caggiula Toews Kane (worked well last season)

Cat Strome Kubalik (reunite Cat and Strome with Kubalik adding the 200 foot game)

Saad Dach Shaw (Dach drafted as center see what he could there and the line as a whole combines scoring potential and defense)

Carpenter Kampf Nylander
- boilermaker100

I've seen a lot of posts dropping Smith out of the line up. While I don't necessarily disagree with it, I do think he has played pretty well. With the recent maintenance days, does anyone else see him going on IR for a stint while they take a look at some of the younger guys?

Regarding your lines, If they do actually go with Saad Dach Shaw, I can see that line getting the second most minutes with the Strome line dropping back a little, unless they show better possession.

I also think if he keeps it up, you might/will see Nylander back on line 1 in short order. He seems to be starting to understand how to play a full game. Still makes some mistakes, but he can jump a play with the best of them and is extremely fast when doing so.

Forgive me, I have a very analytical background... Technically, yes the goalie has "some" fault in every goal that is scored. Some goals much more so than others. I was less making a point and more asking the question in my last post. When those high danger saves are made, what is the difference? I personally believe that Crow is still a very good goalie in this league. Where do I place him exactly, I don't know because I still see a lot of confusion in our own end which leads to exactly what we are discussing. That Oilers game, the D was much more locked down, but he also made some crazy saves against the some of the best talent in the league.

I think the skill is still there. I just don't know if it is consistent or as high as it used to be. I'm willing to wait for a larger sample size (to answer this specific point).
- Chunk

Excellent question. I'd guess that there are a huge number of possibilities- enough to boggle the mind and maybe (respectfully) confuse the issue, which was (as written by others) that Crow might not have had a good game and was a reason they lost. I just don't see anything more than a minuscule amount of theoretical blame on him for that game.

Ok I get your point, but then again wouldn't a more experienced coach or coaching staff address those concerns by having more experience in evaluating talent and implementing a system that compliments his players? And for those players whom can't be corrected you either find a way as a more experienced coach to get them to buy in and or you start benching players to send a message.

Toews hasn't been all that great this year and he is also a extension of the coaching staff by virtue of the C he wears on his chest? Maybe you pull the captaincy from him and give it to Kane?

That might seem a bit extreme or silly but at 10.5 million a year their does come great expectations from him.
- Taylorst1

Well then what was Q's excuse as an experienced coach for Toews in the 3 years before last (which his revitalized season was primarily under JC)

Ok I get your point, but then again wouldn't a more experienced coach or coaching staff address those concerns by having more experience in evaluating talent and implementing a system that compliments his players? And for those players whom can't be corrected you either find a way as a more experienced coach to get them to buy in and or you start benching players to send a message.

Toews hasn't been all that great this year and he is also a extension of the coaching staff by virtue of the C he wears on his chest? Maybe you pull the captaincy from him and give it to Kane?

That might seem a bit extreme or silly but at 10.5 million a year their does come great expectations from him.
- Taylorst1

I think you are simplifying this too much (or heck, I may be complicating it). Pirri, Morin, Hayes, Leddy (when he was here), Stahlberg, etc were all guys that Q couldn't get going properly. I'm not saying he was the end all-be all, but he is a pretty darn good coach. He is also having a lot of those issues in FLA right now.

What exactly would stripping the C from Toews and giving it to Kane accomplish? Is Kane going to start getting in someone's grill and motivate them to play better?

I think this team has a lot of talent, but there are a lot of instances where there is hesitation and inconsistency. That is on everyone. Coaches, players, video guy, everyone.

Excellent question. I'd guess that there are a huge number of possibilities- enough to boggle the mind and maybe (respectfully) confuse the issue, which was (as written by others) that Crow might not have had a good game and was a reason they lost. I just don't see anything more than a minuscule amount of theoretical blame on him for that game.
- mohel

Well, consider that can of worms officially open!

Ok I get your point, but then again wouldn't a more experienced coach or coaching staff address those concerns by having more experience in evaluating talent and implementing a system that compliments his players? And for those players whom can't be corrected you either find a way as a more experienced coach to get them to buy in and or you start benching players to send a message.

Toews hasn't been all that great this year and he is also a extension of the coaching staff by virtue of the C he wears on his chest? Maybe you pull the captaincy from him and give it to Kane?

That might seem a bit extreme or silly but at 10.5 million a year their does come great expectations from him.
- Taylorst1

The HHoF Coach, Q, did not for his last 2-3 years adapt his system for the personnel he had, did he? Nor did he bench guys who might have deserved it, likely out of loyalty.

I've seen a lot of posts dropping Smith out of the line up. While I don't necessarily disagree with it, I do think he has played pretty well. With the recent maintenance days, does anyone else see him going on IR for a stint while they take a look at some of the younger guys?

Regarding your lines, If they do actually go with Saad Dach Shaw, I can see that line getting the second most minutes with the Strome line dropping back a little, unless they show better possession.

I also think if he keeps it up, you might/will see Nylander back on line 1 in short order. He seems to be starting to understand how to play a full game. Still makes some mistakes, but he can jump a play with the best of them and is extremely fast when doing so.
- Chunk

Agree with you on Nylander, but keep him on the 4th line for a few games to continue to learn to play the full game, and have him earn a promotion to the top line.

Excellent question. I'd guess that there are a huge number of possibilities- enough to boggle the mind and maybe (respectfully) confuse the issue, which was (as written by others) that Crow might not have had a good game and was a reason they lost. I just don't see anything more than a minuscule amount of theoretical blame on him for that game.
- mohel

Difference in the game, their big players (Oshie, Ovechkin, Carlson, Wilson) delivered. Ours didn't, although i don't recall Backstrom nor Kuznetsov's name mentioned much. Holtby played well, obviously way better than the 88 percent save percentage he is carrying.

Well then what was Q's excuse as an experienced coach for Toews in the 3 years before last (which his revitalized season was primarily under JC)
- LAHawk

I did say he made some good points. Coach Q had his faults to I'll acknowledge that I think he was loyal to a fault in reference to not addressing toews decline in his play. However he was railroaded last year with the team that Stan gave him. JC has had a full training camp, brought inn the coaching staff he wanted , Stan did go out and on paper build a better team,

Chicago has had enough down time to practice and correct all these issues and playing at home is suppose to be a advantage .

Well then what was Q's excuse as an experienced coach for Toews in the 3 years before last (which his revitalized season was primarily under JC)
- LAHawk

I think the "revitalized" season was due to having Kane on his wing most of the year. If putting Kubalik and Saad with Toews than do it. We need Toews to be playing at a high level. I'm sure going on a little point streak with two big wingers would help his confidence too.

Haven't see anyone mention the Ovi one timer last night. That was a thing of beauty. Welcome to the league Kirby Dach. Dach was in solid position if it was a player not named Ovechkin.

HOF release from the guy with arguably the best one timer ever.

Side note... Kubalik can absolutely drift it. Heavy and hard. He had a slapper in the 2nd or 3rd that I don't think Holtby even saw. It just happened to hit him. Have to get him more ice time and more scoring opportunities.

What Gus did on that 2 on 1 gets you benched in Pee Wees
- LAHawk

Or younger. The rule we learned on 2 on 1s is the D prevents the pass to the guy without the puck, and lets the goalie take the shooter.

Much easier for the G to stop a shot or deke, rather than a cross ice one timer.

Well, consider that can of worms officially open!
- Chunk

Chunk, that can would be fun to explore over several beers! Might be a bit too much for guys like Elbows, though.....

Two questions relating to your first statement. How do you define "talent", and who specifically is fading? I would argue that they have plenty of talent, but they have lines (outside of line 3 and maybe 4) that are not playing all that well right now.

For instance, I would like our lineup on paper against ANA, or CAR but they both are playing better overall right now.

We have Saad, Shaw, Caggiula, Kubalik, Smith, Carpenter (to a lesser degree), and Kampf among the forwards who can and will go into a corner and dig the puck out, as well as go to the front of the net, and most are more than happy to lay a timely hit (some untimely ones as well). How much more do we need, or am I not understanding what you mean when you say grit?
- Chunk

You are sort of making my argument for me.

I gave the best example of fading talent in Toews. If all he is going to do is pass it to covered guys the millisecond someone may touch him on the boards, and otherwise float all night, that tells me he is done - in health, talent and/or heart. He wins ZERO board battles, and frankly looks disinterested.

Yes Saad, Shaw, etc all have grit, but they are all bunched together. The best bunch - Saad, Kubalik and Kampf, are doing most of the scoring. I would argue it is because of the style of game they play and bring.

Playing against Toews' line or Strome's line, you see they are devoid of board battle guys who can gain and maintain possession, and as such they are useless. This makes a guy like Kane far less of a weapon than he could be.

All proof that on paper is no guarantee to translate to the real world.