I believe a dialogue would work better than throwing darts.

Perhaps his "complete nosedive in offensive production" was because his and coaching staff disagreements on how a game should be played. I recall him stating (and I am paraphrasing, of course) that he was tired of coaching modifying his game and he wants to play "his" game and have fun". I am unable to find that in a quick search, but if the dialogue continues, I will try.
- missingmike

So who is at fault in that situation?

Can’t wait until “Stewie “ gets acclimated to the pace of the game. Shocked no complaints about him
- daryl stanley

He’ll get acclimated soon enough. At least the intangibles are already there. He was a good veteran presence last night.

So who is at fault in that situation?
- MJL

Does the fault have to be assigned?

Do the players need to execute coaches's instructions in order to maximize results? Or do the players' should be allowed to play "their" game in order to maximize results?

By the way, if i recall correctly, that statement was directed at Lavy, not at Ted Nolan.

This is my first time replying on this website and im going to be truthful and honest, do you bums really want to talk about chris stewart and what other bums they have on this team. Do you guys actually watch hockey besides the flyers and realize that this is the same team we have watched for the last 8 plus years. They dont understand how to adapt to the new game and maybe it's probably because they dont have the players too adapt. It doesnt matter what coach they have, they have no speed, no skill and teams that know that they have no chance. They have no transition , have no system, when do you ever see them score a goal that looks like it was based off of skill or system. Its the same crap every year, dump and chase pay along the boards (which they suck) play it to the point and pray to go it goes through 6 players or hits someone to give them an opportunity. They are exactly like the philles of the nhl. JVR is irrelevant and we spent 7 mil a year for a guy they knew wasnt good enough when they first had him. Hayes is a 3rd liner on any good team and we spent 7 mil a year. G and Voracek do not have the speed too have these guys so they try to do too much or cant do anything, instead they would rather play half there team that are bums and can "grind", its pathetic. They have a lack of talent and still think the can play the "Flyer way" instead of letting Farabee and Frost and let them deal with the growing pains, if you have the speed and talent you will adjust after awhile. Id rather them be no playoff contention but look like somewhat exciting to watch then have a team that is so boring to watch and them fall 5 points behind the playoffs. Its bad hockey and i blame the talent evaluation from the front office. My 2 cents
- rmcnamee08

convenient this comes after their first loss and not after their 2-0 start.

Does the fault have to be assigned?

Do the players need to execute coaches's instructions in order to maximize results? Or do the players' should be allowed to play "their" game in order to maximize results?

By the way, if i recall correctly, that statement was directed at Lavy, not at Ted Nolan.
- missingmike

Why have a coach at all if this isn't the goal?

Hey man, I appreciate somebody actually speaking out. I get thrashed here no matter what I say as they gang up on me but I have to jump in and add my two cents. First off Hayes is not a first line center and is taking valuable ice time away from the true number one center Couturier. Hayes is border line second line but ideally is a third line shutdown center than can kill penalties as well. They normally do not make 7 plus million a year. He does not fit with 93 and 28, that is obvious. I like the 14-11-23 line as it is the only one with a pulse. However I would reunite Couturier, Giroux and Konecny for line one. Hayes can try his luck with Lindblom and Voracek. JVR is in no mans land, not good along the wall and is primarily a pp specialist. Lindblom is a better 200' player already. I think Farabee needs to be called up and tried withy JVR and Laughton on line 3. Signing Steward was really dumb imo, what can he possibly add other than the odd scrap. Another idea would be using Couturier, Giroux, Hayes and Laughton as the four centers, give Farabee a shot in the top 9. Plus Gostisbehere and Braun are brutal defensively and Gost is playing like a ghost, just plain dumb passes, errant passes, and the slashing penalty should have had him benched. I sure hope things change in a hurry, it is early but too many invisible stars out there that are totally lost.
- joegreif17

Incorrect. Hayes is a prototypical 2C who can play in all positions, is heavy on the puck, and due to his size is difficult to play against. It has been agreed a player like that can be worth between 6-6.5 mil a year, and we overpaid 600k due to his UFA status. get over this already.

Although I agree about Ghost being absolutely horrid so far, Braun is clearly able to handle himself defensively. He is a big body, responsible in his own end, can make a solid first pass out of the zone, and has composure in the D zone, something a lot of our guys last year do not have.

We've allowed 8 goals total in 4 games in regulation and OT, last year we let up 8 goals in our home opener alone. its been 4 games, relax sparky.

it was 11 when i heard them say it...that was in the third i believe. I get the travel stuff...kind of. but the passing to no one within 30 feet or directly to a flames player last night was ridiculous. Surprised the first period wasn't 4 to nothing.
- Peter Richards

Thanks! Felt like more than that to me, probably because of how many errant passes there were in total.

Agreed on the first period brutality; Elliot deserves praise for keeping us in it all game.

Does the fault have to be assigned?

Do the players need to execute coaches's instructions in order to maximize results? Or do the players' should be allowed to play "their" game in order to maximize results?


- missingmike

I think it does and yes. To an extent.

They had how many days off before playing their next game?
- MJL

1 and most of them elected to skate. Practice doesnt count as a day off.

I believe a dialogue would work better than throwing darts.

Perhaps his "complete nosedive in offensive production" was because his and coaching staff disagreements on how a game should be played. I recall him stating (and I am paraphrasing, of course) that he was tired of coaching modifying his game and he wants to play "his" game and have fun". I am unable to find that in a quick search, but if the dialogue continues, I will try.
- missingmike

If you can find where Leino said those things, I would be interested to see them.

1 and most of them elected to skate. Practice doesnt count as a day off.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Practice is what, maybe an hour? It's not a game. Not buying it. It's a BS excuse. The team had skating legs last night. They just didn't play within the team structure and were sloppy with the puck. Hard to establish a forecheck and pressure on the other teams net when you can't complete a pass and are repeatedly icing the puck.

I go back and fourth between Giroux and Couturier on who is our best player is.
- SuperSchennBros

I feel G has far more skill but I could make an argument Coots is the MVP of this team.

Too early to panic, new everything in coaching and systems, some new players.

Anyone that hasn't experienced that kind of travel and attempted anything at a high level afterwards is missing something.

Playing against teams that are good teams with good execution of their systems while you are a new group finding your way is not a good process of evaluation.

After 15-20 games if these guys are still floundering even with adjustments then heads can roll in trades.

Hayes is slotted incorrectly I agree! #2 is the right place.

Too early to panic, new everything in coaching and systems, some new players.

Anyone that hasn't experienced that kind of travel and attempted anything at a high level afterwards is missing something.

Playing against teams that are good teams with good execution of their systems while you are a new group finding your way is not a good process of evaluation.

After 15-20 games if these guys are still floundering even with adjustments then heads can roll in trades.

Hayes is slotted incorrectly I agree! #2 is the right place.
- RajaAmpat

Agree, 15 -20 games.gives us a better idea. Icetime is what matters concerning Hayes.

The new guy is correct, haha

He’ll get acclimated soon enough. At least the intangibles are already there. He was a good veteran presence last night.
- StepfordSam

I didn’t think Stewart contributed anything last night. I have no problem with him as a 13th forward playing occasionally for the minimum. But I hope he doesn’t take ice time from a young player on a consistent basis. I’m not sure why you need a “veteran presence” on a team that already has at least 8 veterans on their forward lines.

Practice is what, maybe an hour? It's not a game. Not buying it. It's a BS excuse. The team had skating legs last night. They just didn't play within the team structure and were sloppy with the puck. Hard to establish a forecheck and pressure on the other teams net when you can't complete a pass and are repeatedly icing the puck.
- MJL

For whatever reason the team played poorly and seemed to lack energy. I'm sure their schedule played some part, but as the players said it's no excuse. Bad games happen for all teams. The really disappointing thing to me is that the star players on this team so seldom step up in games like this. Elliott and Niskanen played good games, but not exactly inspirational. Despite their poor play it was close right down to the end of the game. A big hit or amazing individual offensive effort could have made a big difference last night.

convenient this comes after their first loss and not after their 2-0 start.
- sjk540

It came against 2 of the worst teams in the league right now. Im just sick of mediocrity with this team and organization. There more invested in having a mascot and place to smash stuff at the games then trying to evaluate talent and production and they just know that the fans are going to keep coming back and watching because we are a passionate fanbase but im not wasting my time and money on the product they have. If by some miracle they do make the playoffs its going to be the same 1 and out and get smashed and well realize that we cant compete with the big boys. Its just frustrating because ive watched this team for 25 years never miss any games on tv and now i finish the game and say why did i just waste 2 hours watching that or i DVR and fast forward through the majority of the game because its either too hard too watch or you just know within the first 10 minutes of the game how the game is going to shape up. I could tell right from the start that the flyers were going to have a hard time creating chances because Cal knew they are a faster team so they played to not give the flyers any odd man rushes by not having the d pinch. They knew that they could get all 5 back to the neutral zone before the flyers could enter the offense because there so slow and have no system. I mean you watch boston or pitt call up these guys from the ahl or college and they fly out there and have skill. These Twarynski's, Bunnamans etc yea maybe they are fast in straight line speed but you can be fast all you want but if you dont have awareness, shiftiness, creativity who cares how fast you are. Trust me I would love the Flyers to be a top tier team I live and breath the Flyers but theres a point where we have to be realistic with ourselves and stop hoping this or that player can do this or that. They are what they are a mediocore at best team

Joegreif17

They just lost one away game even if I agree with your core point
We are overpaying average players and there are too many players making more than
Couts.But don't agree on your solution .Frost and Farabee and even Konecny are no Top line player s now even if they are highly talented at offensive play
Plus who would you send down to make place for them?
- goenzoy

After sleeping on last nights disaster of a showing I think the best thing is to give them more time. Starting in Europe, west coast road trips are always tough and so few games to start with. I think we need to see where we are at after the first homestand. I have nothing against Hayes but would love to see him in 2C or 3C and killing penalties. He is not a first line center or #1 pp guy, never has been and never will be. Also tired of watching JVR lose puck battles and getting abused in the corners, man is he soft. Gost has to wake up, all that talent and his brain is not functioning at this point. Lets hope for a big W in Edmonton tonight.

It came against 2 of the worst teams in the league right now. Im just sick of mediocrity with this team and organization. There more invested in having a mascot and place to smash stuff at the games then trying to evaluate talent and production and they just know that the fans are going to keep coming back and watching because we are a passionate fanbase but im not wasting my time and money on the product they have. If by some miracle they do make the playoffs its going to be the same 1 and out and get smashed and well realize that we cant compete with the big boys. Its just frustrating because ive watched this team for 25 years never miss any games on tv and now i finish the game and say why did i just waste 2 hours watching that or i DVR and fast forward through the majority of the game because its either too hard too watch or you just know within the first 10 minutes of the game how the game is going to shape up. I could tell right from the start that the flyers were going to have a hard time creating chances because Cal knew they are a faster team so they played to not give the flyers any odd man rushes by not having the d pinch. They knew that they could get all 5 back to the neutral zone before the flyers could enter the offense because there so slow and have no system. I mean you watch boston or pitt call up these guys from the ahl or college and they fly out there and have skill. These Twarynski's, Bunnamans etc yea maybe they are fast in straight line speed but you can be fast all you want but if you dont have awareness, shiftiness, creativity who cares how fast you are. Trust me I would love the Flyers to be a top tier team I live and breath the Flyers but theres a point where we have to be realistic with ourselves and stop hoping this or that player can do this or that. They are what they are a mediocore at best team
- rmcnamee08

thanks.....I usually get vilified for saying things like this

The new guy is correct, haha
- joegreif17

Why are we calling him new guy. He's had an account since 2014

I feel G has far more skill but I could make an argument Coots is the MVP of this team.
- Pelle31Forever

Giroux plays any forward position. He’s the best faceoff man on the team, maybe in the league outside of Bergeron. Easily the most gifted offensive threat on the team and makes players around him better. Hands down a better leader than Coots and maybe even more an intense Competitor than Coots.

It came against 2 of the worst teams in the league right now. Im just sick of mediocrity with this team and organization. There more invested in having a mascot and place to smash stuff at the games then trying to evaluate talent and production and they just know that the fans are going to keep coming back and watching because we are a passionate fanbase but im not wasting my time and money on the product they have. If by some miracle they do make the playoffs its going to be the same 1 and out and get smashed and well realize that we cant compete with the big boys. Its just frustrating because ive watched this team for 25 years never miss any games on tv and now i finish the game and say why did i just waste 2 hours watching that or i DVR and fast forward through the majority of the game because its either too hard too watch or you just know within the first 10 minutes of the game how the game is going to shape up. I could tell right from the start that the flyers were going to have a hard time creating chances because Cal knew they are a faster team so they played to not give the flyers any odd man rushes by not having the d pinch. They knew that they could get all 5 back to the neutral zone before the flyers could enter the offense because there so slow and have no system. I mean you watch boston or pitt call up these guys from the ahl or college and they fly out there and have skill. These Twarynski's, Bunnamans etc yea maybe they are fast in straight line speed but you can be fast all you want but if you dont have awareness, shiftiness, creativity who cares how fast you are. Trust me I would love the Flyers to be a top tier team I live and breath the Flyers but theres a point where we have to be realistic with ourselves and stop hoping this or that player can do this or that. They are what they are a mediocore at best team
- rmcnamee08

I share your opinion and can vouch for the fact I just blew 1000 bucks for a weekend trip to Vancouver and the Flyers despite outshooting the Canucks looked pretty flat, thank god for the cold ones and the good food in the city, lol. Last night the first period was absolutely disgraceful for nhl players to be that bad. Anyway I am not giving up hope and trust AV and his top notch assistants can straighten out the blunders and instill some confidence in some key players. There are several big names that are invisible. Lets Go FLyers!

I share your opinion and can vouch for the fact I just blew 1000 bucks for a weekend trip to Vancouver and the Flyers despite outshooting the Canucks looked pretty flat, thank god for the cold ones and the good food in the city, lol. Last night the first period was absolutely disgraceful for nhl players to be that bad. Anyway I am not giving up hope and trust AV and his top notch assistants can straighten out the blunders and instill some confidence in some key players. There are several big names that are invisible. Lets Go FLyers!
- joegreif17

Did they roll the red carpet out for you considering your 40+ years of fantasy hockey GM experience?

I didn’t think Stewart contributed anything last night. I have no problem with him as a 13th forward playing occasionally for the minimum. But I hope he doesn’t take ice time from a young player on a consistent basis. I’m not sure why you need a “veteran presence” on a team that already has at least 8 veterans on their forward lines.
- Djapana

he was more noticeable than jake and jvr..almost had a goal I think