where did i say "wasted on sid's line"?

Simon gives sid's line 8% more oppurtunities to score than without and 12% more high danger chances. I dont think sid and G will waste that, i think bjug and horny will.
- joecool2931

I think Sid and G will have plenty of scoring chances no matter who they play with. I’d rather have s guy that can put the puck in the net there.

I certainly didn’t mean to start a whole thing with Phil. Players shouldn’t be judged solely on point production. Phil looks good in the desert. He’s even throwing his body around more than usual, he’s skating hard, he’s supporting his teammates. Keller looks good from what I’ve seen too, we’ll see if Stepan can keep up or if they make the eventual switch to Soderberg.. who’s in and out of the doghouse early

Thats exactly it. There is this idea that he didnt play D or back check, and truthfully I saw less of it last season, but the guy did come back and get sticks and his body in the way. He was never the strongest on the boards but that didnt stop him from disrupting the plays along them and even gaining possession while doing it.
- MattStrat

Kessel was a +8 at 5v5 last year for what it’s worth.

Kessel was a +8 at 5v5 last year for what it’s worth.
- j.boyd919

yeah I dont think he was the black hole 5 on 5 some are making him out to be, it just seemed to me he wasnt trying quite as hard on that side of things. I could be totally wrong, just my eyes. Its more so how he looks 5 on 5 that gets people talking negatively, than the stats, I think.

Didnt someone else say he was -19?

EDIT: I also want to say that to my eyes, in the Isles sweep, he was one of the players playing the hardest in all zones.

I certainly didn’t mean to start a whole thing with Phil. Players shouldn’t be judged solely on point production. Phil looks good in the desert. He’s even throwing his body around more than usual, he’s skating hard, he’s supporting his teammates. Keller looks good from what I’ve seen too, we’ll see if Stepan can keep up or if they make the eventual switch to Soderberg.. who’s in and out of the doghouse early
- WSCTeton17

Sh!t disturber.

It’s just people hating because they don’t like his style of play. They get caught up on what “effort” and “hustle” look like and if it doesn’t fit their visually representation of each, they think the guy sucks. They somehow feel validated because he got traded even though the facts are in the statistics and B2B cups where he played a huge part for 4 years in PIT.
- j.boyd919

No one argues his important role and no one would trade 2/4 championships in his time here (i hope). but being lazy isn't a style of play and you refuse to acknowledge the effect of his lack of "effort and hustle" has on the rest of the team. and when anyone would say that, your response was "pHiL kEsSeL is Elite"

I mean Kessel is overrated if you think he’s a premier star in the league. I used Kane as an example because he’s in the best of the best category and Kessel compares as a next tier down guy. But when you produce significantly more than the league average for a top line RW at even strength and produce at the level you do on the PP like Kessel does, you are very firmly in the complimentary star category. That’s a really high end player that teams don’t easily overcome losing.
- Victoro311

Agreed! I think this blog and comments have always liked to bring up the age regression constantly but it never seemed to apply to Kessel in the trade. 70 points is still possible for him this year but when he was traded people were talking (mostly negative nancy) like he was expected to stay at the 87 points he averaged over the last 2 years which isnt reachable for him with the yotes. I liked kessel a lot and he was huge for the pens but I also didnt think moving on was a bad idea either needing any cap space possible and hes getting older. I predicted Kessel would get 65-75 points and galchenyuk would get 55-65 if on PP1. Not a huge drop between the 2 with 1 mill cap saved and a 1st round prospect and a younger player in galchenyuk.

Sorry...a PPG player...that's elite. He had 244 points in his last 3 seasons/246 games games with the Pens. One of those seasons being 92 points aka over a PPG season.

I wont look at the first year because it was the year every player was handicapped by Mike Johnston
- MattStrat

Sorry I thought you meant his whole career.

yeah I dont think he was the black hole 5 on 5 some are making him out to be, it just seemed to me he wasnt trying quite as hard on that side of things. I could be totally wrong, just my eyes. Its more so how he looks 5 on 5 that gets people talking negatively, than the stats, I think.

Didnt someone else say he was -19?

EDIT: I also want to say that to my eyes, in the Isles sweep, he was one of the players playing the hardest in all zones.
- MattStrat

Plus/minus is a garbage stat to use. You get a minus for being in the ice during an empty net goal. I prefer to look at goals for/against based on specific situations so they don’t have those stupid stipulations mixed in.

I think Sid and G will have plenty of scoring chances no matter who they play with. I’d rather have s guy that can put the puck in the net there.
- Grinder47

So you don't want them to have more chances? that's an interesting strategy

No one argues his important role and no one would trade 2/4 championships in his time here (i hope). but being lazy isn't a style of play and you refuse to acknowledge the effect of his lack of "effort and hustle" has on the rest of the team. and when anyone would say that, your response was "pHiL kEsSeL is Elite"
- joecool2931

Because Kessel was an elite point producer in Pittsburgh when he was he. Pretty sure he was a top 5 RW while he was here. His effect on the rest of the team was that everyone in the room loved him (Sid himself said in an interview that the media overdramatizes Phil’s personality, and thats not how he is in the room) and no I won’t buy into Rossi’s article, dude is a clown and makes poop up all the time. His effect on the team was a couple of Stanley Cups. Pretty solid if you ask me.

Agreed! I think this blog and comments have always liked to bring up the age regression constantly but it never seemed to apply to Kessel in the trade. 70 points is still possible for him this year but when he was traded people were talking (mostly negative nancy) like he was expected to stay at the 87 points he averaged over the last 2 years which isnt reachable for him with the yotes. I liked kessel a lot and he was huge for the pens but I also didnt think moving on was a bad idea either needing any cap space possible and hes getting older. I predicted Kessel would get 65-75 points and galchenyuk would get 55-65 if on PP1. Not a huge drop between the 2 with 1 mill cap saved and a 1st round prospect and a younger player in galchenyuk.
- pens4life-66

Definitely a possibility for Kessel to have age regression in the dessert. I think I said 65-70 in Arizona. I don’t think Galch is going to his 60 in PIT. I think 45-50 is more realistic, probably closer to 45.

I certainly didn’t mean to start a whole thing with Phil. Players shouldn’t be judged solely on point production. Phil looks good in the desert. He’s even throwing his body around more than usual, he’s skating hard, he’s supporting his teammates. Keller looks good from what I’ve seen too, we’ll see if Stepan can keep up or if they make the eventual switch to Soderberg.. who’s in and out of the doghouse early
- WSCTeton17

Kessel, like everything else in this world (except for honey) has a shelf life. The problem is his shelf life isn't very long. He has been an all-star everywhere he went and will continue that in the desert. It was simply time for him to leave, thanks for the memories.

where did i say "wasted on sid's line"?

Simon gives sid's line 8% more oppurtunities to score than without and 12% more high danger chances. I dont think sid and G will waste that, i think bjug and horny will.
- joecool2931

I don't remember how many games and against who that Simon was used with Sid. I do remember he never lasted long when he was promoted. I want to see that changed this year. Simon has been promoted to the top line and now that we are going to start to play better teams I want to see what he can do. Simon is tied for 14th on the team in 5v5 GF/GA at 50% (5GF - 5GA) that needs to improve.

I don't remember how many games and against who that Simon was used with Sid. I do remember he never lasted long when he was promoted. I want to see that changed this year. Simon has been promoted to the top line and now that we are going to start to play better teams I want to see what he can do. Simon is tied for 14th on the team in 5v5 GF/GA at 50% (5GF - 5GA) that needs to improve.
- Thunderbolt

I see that 5v5 differential improving a lot if he sticks in Sid and Gs line.

So you don't want them to have more chances? that's an interesting strategy
- joecool2931

We have gone over this with him a bunch. Jake Sid Simon = more goals in total

I see that 5v5 differential improving a lot if he sticks in Sid and Gs line.
- j.boyd919

6 games into a injury riddled start, I'm not going to look twice at that. Sid obviously trusts him a ton and wants him to play there. I think a big part of this is Dom will carry the puck in, he is confident in controlling the puck and allowing the play to develop, which gives Sid an extra second to analyze the zone, pick his spots, and pick them apart. Horny and Rust just crash in start firing, I don't think Sid likes that style.

It appears Guds will be a scratch tonight. Time to move him out ASAP.

It appears Guds will be a scratch tonight. Time to move him out ASAP.
- Rinosaur

I think they are just giving marino a legit chance to prove himself. If he does, then they will trade him. There really isn't a hurry to do so either considering how much salary is on LTIR.

I don't have the stats on outperforming, but to your pt, imagine if sid, g , and simon outperform expectations just like just sid and g did. to sum up my thought process (what i assume most simon stans's are), i dont want simons possession ability wasted with bjug and horn or even 4th line.
- joecool2931

I don't even see playing with Bjugstad and Hornqvist as a waste. They were an elite shutdown line that probably would have scored a few more I Hornqvist and Simon weren't both so snake bitten.

But how I said I wanted to us Simon was with Malkin because everything you said about boosting chances I feel he needs more. Guys like Schultz and Galchenyuk have offensive talent but push chances the other way and I'd like Ike to use Simon as a counter balance to give those guys more chances. Think of it as line balance.

Anyways, JMO on how I'd use Simon. Right now, keep him with Sid because that line needs to carry the team. Second line has been ugly. Enjoying the conversation though.

I think they are just giving marino a legit chance to prove himself. If he does, then they will trade him. There really isn't a hurry to do so either considering how much salary is on LTIR.
- burgh4life87

Yeah, well if he holds his own against that potent forward group tonight there's no way he should come back out.

Not that tonight we be a good night for this, put Id just like to see Rikky dressed one night playing LD with Marino on RD...see how it looks...

I think they are just giving marino a legit chance to prove himself. If he does, then they will trade him. There really isn't a hurry to do so either considering how much salary is on LTIR.
- burgh4life87

The immediate need is more to open up a roster space for an extra forward right now. It's possible we're going to see Riikola at wing tonight if McCann can't go.

I don't even see playing with Bjugstad and Hornqvist as a waste. They were an elite shutdown line that probably would have scored a few more I Hornqvist and Simon weren't both so snake bitten.

But how I said I wanted to us Simon was with Malkin because everything you said about boosting chances I feel he needs more. Guys like Schultz and Galchenyuk have offensive talent but push chances the other way and I'd like Ike to use Simon as a counter balance to give those guys more chances. Think of it as line balance.

Anyways, JMO on how I'd use Simon. Right now, keep him with Sid because that line needs to carry the team. Second line has been ugly. Enjoying the conversation though.
- Tojo.

Simon is like a Swiss Army knife that can go on any line and help that line...and his cap hit is wonderful.

I think they are just giving marino a legit chance to prove himself. If he does, then they will trade him. There really isn't a hurry to do so either considering how much salary is on LTIR.
- burgh4life87

If past coaching/management actions say anything, they’ve already made their decision on Marino.

Simon is like a Swiss Army knife that can go on any line and help that line...and his cap hit is wonderful.
- MattStrat

Basically what I was saying in less words. Rino will be happy.