Pittsburgh and Washington considered defense-first teams?
- PatC80

He said as often. That's two teams. There are more teams that did it the other way or at least balanced terms.

Its the coaches job to get the players to play the way he wants.

I understand that a PP goal counts just the same. Its just that PP/PK in a short series can really swing and coaching is a big part. Maybe he got out coached?
- senstroll

His assistants got fired for a reason and they were in charge of the special teams.

He can't put players that he doesn't have. The majority of the team is young, small, skill and speed players. He doesn't have a lot of variety in the types of players he has to put out there. If he had 3 more Hymans, you know he'd put them out there.

He said as often. That's two teams. There are more teams that did it the other way or at least balanced terms.
- JohnFergusonJr

those are two recent examples.. Look at the Oilers in the 80's and the Penguins in the early 90's, or heck the Red Wings as well, with their forward group in the 90's/early 2000's. It happens sometimes. There is no set formula to winning the Stanley Cup.

His assistants got fired for a reason and they were in charge of the special teams.

He can't put players that he doesn't have. The majority of the team is young, small, skill and speed players. He doesn't have a lot of variety in the types of players he has to put out there. If he had 3 more Hymans, you know he'd put them out there.
- JohnFergusonJr

Or, he can but didn't use them properly.. (ie; Hyman taking faceoffs against Patrice Bergeron)

His assistants got fired for a reason and they were in charge of the special teams.

He can't put players that he doesn't have. The majority of the team is young, small, skill and speed players. He doesn't have a lot of variety in the types of players he has to put out there. If he had 3 more Hymans, you know he'd put them out there.
- JohnFergusonJr

Also a problem, when you have Polak and Martin and Hainsey he tends to play them a lot. I think most coaches have a blind spot for players that are good ol boys and probably super great guys in the room..but have lost a step. GMs are forced to move on from them because they are just not that good anymore. the coach plays them too much (Marleau)

That's false.
- JohnFergusonJr

In the last 5 years, the team that scored more goals for in the regular season won 41 playoff series, and the team that allowed less goals against won 41 playoff series.

those are two recent examples.. Look at the Oilers in the 80's and the Penguins in the early 90's, or heck the Red Wings as well, with their forward group in the 90's/early 2000's. It happens sometimes. There is no set formula to winning the Stanley Cup.
- PatC80

Plus it's hard to even look at ten years ago as a reasonable example given how much the game has changed since then. My bet is in 5-10 years the young and fast teams will win more, allowing perception to change...

those are two recent examples.. Look at the Oilers in the 80's and the Penguins in the early 90's, or heck the Red Wings as well, with their forward group in the 90's/early 2000's. It happens sometimes. There is no set formula to winning the Stanley Cup.
- PatC80

Two recent examples that are outnumbered by the others. St. Louis, Boston, Chicago, Anaheim, New Jersey and Detroit all had outstanding defenses and defenders on their team both up front and on the blueline. Yeah, some of those teams scored a lot of goals too but they didn't rely solely on their offense to win the Cup.

There is definitely a pattern that Cup winning teams have in common. It's not always exactly the same year to year but there's definitely common threads between most winners.

You mentioned the Oilers and Penguins of the 80s and 90s. You mentioned earlier the Penguins of the 2010s and Washington. Those teams had the best player in the league and of the generation on them. That's a common thread right there; the best player in the world usually wins a Cup.

Plus it's hard to even look at ten years ago as a reasonable example given how much the game has changed since then. My bet is in 5-10 years the young and fast teams will win more, allowing perception to change...
- lumlums

Even then you'll eventually see the pendulum swing back. This poop is often cyclical IMO.

Or, he can but didn't use them properly.. (ie; Hyman taking faceoffs against Patrice Bergeron)
- PatC80

100% his fault, for sure.

But then again, maybe that's his message to the team. Maybe he was telling them, I'd rather lose with the guy who plays the way I tell him to than put someone else out there who doesn't.

Also a problem, when you have Polak and Martin and Hainsey he tends to play them a lot. I think most coaches have a blind spot for players that are good ol boys and probably super great guys in the room..but have lost a step. GMs are forced to move on from them because they are just not that good anymore. the coach plays them too much (Marleau)
- senstroll

Yeah, I don't think anybody, including Babcock wants poop players. Everybody wants good players who make smart plays.

In the last 5 years, the team that scored more goals for in the regular season won 41 playoff series, and the team that allowed less goals against won 41 playoff series.
- The Shrike

That's incredibly simplistic and doesn't even come close to proving your point.

In the last 5 years, the team that scored more goals for in the regular season won 41 playoff series, and the team that allowed less goals against won 41 playoff series.
- The Shrike

but there were only 75 playoff series....

those are two recent examples.. Look at the Oilers in the 80's and the Penguins in the early 90's, or heck the Red Wings as well, with their forward group in the 90's/early 2000's. It happens sometimes. There is no set formula to winning the Stanley Cup.
- PatC80

Those Detroit teams had good defensemen though, hall of famers. And the Oilers had Huddy, Lowe and Smith, good homers.

but there were only 75 playoff series....
- bobbyisno1

8 in the 1st round, 4 in the 2nd round, 2 in the 3rd round and 1 final.

15 per year over 5 years is 75.

Math checks out.

Those Detroit teams had good defensemen though, hall of famers. And the Oilers had Huddy, Lowe and Smith, good homers.
- aminnes

Even Montreal dynasties had the best defenses.

Everybody has to score goals to win and everybody has to defend to hold leads. It's obvious any winning team needs to do both. Teams that only defend end up losing eventually just like teams that only attack lose eventually. The point being made here is the Leafs pay too much attention to one and not the other. They need more balance.

Even Montreal dynasties had the best defenses.

Everybody has to score goals to win and everybody has to defend to hold leads. It's obvious any winning team needs to do both. Teams that only defend end up losing eventually just like teams that only attack lose eventually. The point being made here is the Leafs pay too much attention to one and not the other. They need more balance.
- JohnFergusonJr

They have been that way for a very long time. Closest thing they had to a balanced team was 93 and 94. (frank)ing Kerry Fraser.

Leafs will never win because reasons.

That's incredibly simplistic and doesn't even come close to proving your point.
- JohnFergusonJr

It certainly doesn't disprove it.

Plus it's hard to even look at ten years ago as a reasonable example given how much the game has changed since then. My bet is in 5-10 years the young and fast teams will win more, allowing perception to change...
- lumlums

Exactly... JFJ's memory doesn't extend beyond the Blues winnig the Cup last season

Four games into the season and the Leafs have already been eliminated from the playoffs for the next 5 years...typical Laffs.

but there were only 75 playoff series....
- bobbyisno1

Sometimes teams are better in both categories.

Four games into the season and the Leafs have already been eliminated from the playoffs for the next 5 years...typical Laffs.
- Steven_Seagull

I hate when that happens..

I had a feeling that this was going to be our year and then we lost to the Habs in a shootout. Everything changed. Now, we're done.

I hate when that happens..

I had a feeling that this was going to be our year and then we lost to the Habs in a shootout. Everything changed. Now, we're done.
- PatC80

Yep, sucks. Blow it up, but don’t try to build properly. Won’t matter anyway.

those are two recent examples.. Look at the Oilers in the 80's and the Penguins in the early 90's, or heck the Red Wings as well, with their forward group in the 90's/early 2000's. It happens sometimes. There is no set formula to winning the Stanley Cup.
- PatC80

It's more about luck and staying healthy than anything else.