I was never a fan of all three. Was Andreas Nodl every one?
- SuperSchennBros

Nodl was always that guy who seemed like he should have been better than he was. A very strong skater (if you ever saw him do skating drills, he'd wow you) with good sense, but just could never put it together. If he took the cement blocks off of his hands, it may have helped.

The level of competition in the pre season is well below the level of the NHL regular season. It's far more about their physical strength, their stamina, how they handle battles rather than just about any "dazzling" of skill they put on. More so with Farabee.
- MJL

no i get that, but what I see that you're saying is that, essentially, there can be no way either Frost or Farabee can do anything really to make the team. If they can't prove themselves against NHLers without first making the team, how do they prove themselves? Flahr and Fletcher both have said ad naseum that it would take special performances out of any rookie to unseat a vet, but what im getting from what you're saying is that it's really not a possibility for them.

Am I missing something?

no i get that, but what I see that you're saying is that, essentially, there can be no way either Frost or Farabee can do anything really to make the team. If they can't prove themselves against NHLers without first making the team, how do they prove themselves? Flahr and Fletcher both have said ad naseum that it would take special performances out of any rookie to unseat a vet, but what im getting from what you're saying is that it's really not a possibility for them.

Am I missing something?
- sjk540

Yes, you're missing something. Both in terms of what I'm saying and in where the bar is set for them to make the team and what they have to show to make the team. It's not "dazzle" or any of the other verbs that you've used.

Yes, you're missing something. Both in terms of what I'm saying and in where the bar is set for them to make the team and what they have to show to make the team. It's not "dazzle" or any of the other verbs that you've used.
- MJL

OK, but forget that.

Fletcher and Flahr have both said what I have said before, that a player could make the team if they absolutely prove they belong. What you're saying is there is no way for them to prove that they belong. How is that possible?

The Flyers simply don't have the wing depth to make a 2A/2B situation work for Patrick right now.

Maybe if Frost/Farabee break camp w/ the big club, and they both hit the ground running, but that's kinda unlikely.

If that kid doesn't get decent wingers this season, he's gonna struggle again... then we'll have a Sam Bennett situation on our hands.

OK, but forget that.

Fletcher and Flahr have both said what I have said before, that a player could make the team if they absolutely prove they belong. What you're saying is there is no way for them to prove that they belong. How is that possible?
- sjk540

Nope, that's not what I'm saying. That's what you think I'm saying. You're wrong.

The Flyers simply don't have the wing depth to make a 2A/2B situation work for Patrick right now.

Maybe if Frost/Farabee break camp w/ the big club, and they both hit the ground running, but that's kinda unlikely.

If that kid doesn't get decent wingers this season, he's gonna struggle again... then we'll have a Sam Bennett situation on our hands.


- Tomahawk

They have the wing depth to do it. Especially if they decide to play Laughton at wing which is not likely.

I'm concerned about Patrick having the right linemates to help him breakout. I hate putting line suggestions out because it's so fluid and changes so often but here is what I'd like to see.

Giroux/Couturier/Konecny
JVR/Patrick/Voracek
Laughton/Hayes/Lindblom
Raffl/Pitlick/open competition
- MJL

I dont mind sharing the quality of linemates but I would split up Jake and JVR in that case. My preference is actually to load up the top line.

Giroux- Couturier -Voracek
JVR-Hayes-Pitlick
Lindblom-Patrick- Konecny
Raffl-Laughton ____
Aube-Kubel/Vorobyev/Rubstov

They have the wing depth to do it. Especially if they decide to play Laughton at wing which is not likely.
- MJL

They have enough NHL bodies, but not enough quality depth and skill to make life easier for NP offensively.

Team is only 4-5 quality wingers deep by my count. And even within that 4-5, JvR can be off/on w/ his effort level, and Lindblom is young himself.

I dont mind sharing the quality of linemates but I would split up Jake and JVR in that case. My preference is actually to load up the top line.

Giroux- Couturier -Voracek
JVR-Hayes-Pitlick
Lindblom-Patrick- Konecny
Raffl-Laughton ____
Aube-Kubel/Vorobyev/Rubstov
- Baxter27

I personally prefer Konecny with the top line and Voracek away from Giroux. Why play your two best playmakers on the same line? I don't like that 3rd line.

They have enough NHL bodies, but not enough quality depth and skill to make life easier for NP offensively.

Team is only 4-5 quality wingers deep by my count. And even within that 4-5, JvR can be off/on w/ his effort level, and Lindblom is young himself.
- Tomahawk

Personally I'd be playing Patrick with Voracek and JVR and Hayes with Lindblom and whoever the other winger is going to be. I think it's important to play Patrick with good offensive players to help him breakout.

I personally prefer Konecny with the top line and Voracek away from Giroux. Why play your two best playmakers on the same line? I don't like that 3rd line.
- MJL

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek has been the most dominate line I can remember in recent years. That being said I dont mind Konecny as first RW either. Lindblom-Patrick-Voracek has been a good line in recent years as well.

Personally I'd be playing Patrick with Voracek and JVR and Hayes with Lindblom and whoever the other winger is going to be. I think it's important to play Patrick with good offensive players to help him breakout.
- MJL

Patrick JvR and Jake would really worry me defensively, tho. And they'd probably see some pretty stiff checking on most nights w/ Jake being such a threat. Isn't the idea to give NP some easy matchups?

Nope, that's not what I'm saying. That's what you think I'm saying. You're wrong.
- MJL

Well then please tell me what you're trying to say, very simply, so i can understand. what you have said is the below:

"I think either player will need to force the Flyers into putting them on the team out of camp."

"They'd need to show more than just dazzle in camp."

"They could both by far be the best players in camp and pre-season and they still would need to show more. They would need to convince management that they could play at a high level against NHL competition as well as convince them that their level of play and compete would hold up over a full NHL season. Especially in the case of Farabee."

"The level of competition in the pre season is well below the level of the NHL regular season. It's far more about their physical strength, their stamina, how they handle battles rather than just about any "dazzling" of skill they put on. "

Those are all your quotes. Again, I will repeat, if Flahr and Fletcher both say (and also you said in the bold above) they would have to force their way into the lineup, yet you say that it is way more than dazzle, blow them away, wow themselves silly, etc etc, and that the competition in camp and preseason isn't up to snuff in regards to the NHL (which all I agree with) so then how would they make it on the team? What could they possibly do to make the team according to you? You're contradicting yourself by saying they would need to show them they belong, but not giving them a way to show that they belong.

Patrick JvR and Jake would really worry me defensively, tho. And they'd probably see some pretty stiff checking on most nights w/ Jake being such a threat. Isn't the idea to give NP some easy matchups?
- Tomahawk

It's hard for a team to devote checking to multiple lines. The only way to give Patrick all of these easy matchups is to take away top offensive players from him. It's a catch 22. I think it would be tougher for him to breakout without a catalyst playing with him to help.

Well then please tell me what you're trying to say, very simply, so i can understand. what you have said is the below:

"I think either player will need to force the Flyers into putting them on the team out of camp."

"They'd need to show more than just dazzle in camp."

"They could both by far be the best players in camp and pre-season and they still would need to show more. They would need to convince management that they could play at a high level against NHL competition as well as convince them that their level of play and compete would hold up over a full NHL season. Especially in the case of Farabee."

"The level of competition in the pre season is well below the level of the NHL regular season. It's far more about their physical strength, their stamina, how they handle battles rather than just about any "dazzling" of skill they put on. "

Those are all your quotes. Again, I will repeat, if Flahr and Fletcher both say (and also you said in the bold above) they would have to force their way into the lineup, yet you say that it is way more than dazzle, blow them away, wow themselves silly, etc etc, and that the competition in camp and preseason isn't up to snuff in regards to the NHL (which all I agree with) so then how would they make it on the team? What could they possibly do to make the team according to you? You're contradicting yourself by saying they would need to show them they belong, but not giving them a way to show that they belong.
- sjk540

There is no contradiction in my statements. The fact that you don't get it is not my problem. It's yours. My statements have been pretty clear on what they need to do. It really comes down to my other statement that fans are going to be upset when they're sent down, simply because they don't understand what young players have to do to make the team along with other factors outside of their control.

There is no contradiction in my statements. The fact that you don't get it is not my problem. It's yours. My statements have been pretty clear on what they need to do. It really comes down to my other statement that fans are going to be upset when they're sent down, simply because they don't understand what young players have to do to make the team along with other factors outside of their control.
- MJL

No no no, you're not answering anything, you haven't made any clear statement on what my question to you is, it has nothing to do with my not getting anything since you are not answering the original question. What you're doing however is going into one of your circular logic games.

I am asking you a question, whether you want to answer or even have the ability to answer, or don't know (which is fine, people don't know everything), I don't know.

the question remains, if it's more than blow them away, if its going to take more than simply being far and away the 2 best players in camp, what does Joel Farabee or Morgan Frost need to do, in your opinion, to make the opening night roster?

and by the way, when you say things like these players would have to force the team into making the decision to have them on the opening night roster, yet tell me that they would have to do more than just go above and beyond and be the best players in camp to make the team, thats a contradiction. The most they can do is be the two best players in the camp, thats the tippy top, thats a fact. What youre saying is theyd have to force the team to make a decision, but even being the two best players in camp, that wouldnt be enough to force their decision. How is that not a contradiction?

I would really like to see German Rubstov make the team in that 4C role and slide Pitlick to RW.
- sjk540

I don't think it makes sense to have Rubtsov playing the 4C role at age 21 when he's never got a chance to develop offensively at the AHL level. I think Vorobyev is a much better candidate if Laughton will be used as a 3rd line wing while Frost & Farabee start in the AHL.

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek has been the most dominate line I can remember in recent years. That being said I dont mind Konecny as first RW either. Lindblom-Patrick-Voracek has been a good line in recent years as well.
- Baxter27

For some reason I see this typo all the time on hockey forums, and never anywhere else online.

For some reason I see this typo all the time on hockey forums, and never anywhere else online.
- Feanor

thats how you spell dominate though, unless you mean that it should be dominant, then yeah

The Flyers simply don't have the wing depth to make a 2A/2B situation work for Patrick right now.

Maybe if Frost/Farabee break camp w/ the big club, and they both hit the ground running, but that's kinda unlikely.

If that kid doesn't get decent wingers this season, he's gonna struggle again... then we'll have a Sam Bennett situation on our hands.


- Tomahawk

His most common wingers last season were Voracek and Lindblom.

thats how you spell dominate though, unless you mean that it should be dominant, then yeah
- sjk540

It should be, yes.

A dominant line dominates.

It's hard for a team to devote checking to multiple lines. The only way to give Patrick all of these easy matchups is to take away top offensive players from him. It's a catch 22. I think it would be tougher for him to breakout without a catalyst playing with him to help.
- MJL

Yeah, best thing they can do is get a bit deeper on the wings, so they don't have to do any roster gymnastics or spread the talent out too thin to assemble three viable scoring lines.

If Pitlick is in the top-9, NP is in trouble. The best thing that could happen is for one (or more) of Rubtov, Frost, Farabee, Ratcliffe, Voyobyev etc to step up this year.

I don't think it makes sense to have Rubtsov playing the 4C role at age 21 when he's never got a chance to develop offensively at the AHL level. I think Vorobyev is a much better candidate if Laughton will be used as a 3rd line wing while Forst & Farabee start in the AHL.
- Feanor

well i never thought of Rubstov being an offensively dynamic threat for the big team, I thought he was drafted as more of a Scotty Laughton type, PKer, can chip in offensively here and there but mostly is a defensive responsible guy with maybe a higher ceiling of offensive potential who could, in a pinch, play up and down the lineup.

In the case I am wrong on that assessment then I agree, I would like to see him play top line offensive minutes rather than being relegated to a 4th line role. Id also have no problem seeing Vorobyev or NAK, its really whoever makes us better without stunting anyones growth for me.

well i never thought of Rubstov being an offensively dynamic threat for the big team, I thought he was drafted as more of a Scotty Laughton type, PKer, can chip in offensively here and there but mostly is a defensive responsible guy with maybe a higher ceiling of offensive potential who could, in a pinch, play up and down the lineup.

In the case I am wrong on that assessment then I agree, I would like to see him play top line offensive minutes rather than being relegated to a 4th line role. Id also have no problem seeing Vorobyev or NAK, its really whoever makes us better without stunting anyones growth for me.
- sjk540

Hard to say what Ruby can be when he's played a total of 14 NA Pro games.