Yup, already pointed out that Matthews is much better in goal scoring. no one is arguing that.
- Fakepartofme

Uhm

That anime guy is

Just saying

you think miller and montour are
- Tumbleweed

In todays game, Miller and Montour are both much better players than Risto. much better.

Risto cant get the puck out of his end ever. Hes a mess when he has the puck in his end. He CONSTANTLY loses position to try to make a hit.

Miller is ROCK solid positionally and Montour is ridiculously fluid in clearing the zone.

And Dahlin...well.....don't even get me started

Show me.
- aminnes

Have you ever used naturalstattrick?

That’ll tell you exactly who played with who and compare how players did with or without one another.

Wha???
Unless your saying Marner scored 6 empty netters? I think he had a couple. I also remember Matthews tapping in a number of wide open nets. At that point we're getting very semantic. One guy had 22, the other 25. PP wise they are very similar, and of course Matthews missed time. But I thought we weren't allowed to talk about that.
https://www.hockey-refere.../players/m/matthau01.html
https://www.hockey-refere.../players/m/marnemi01.html
- aminnes

from what I just looked at he had
5 EN (against and with)
1 goal 4 on 5

I try not to remember things when I am looking up stats, I just look up stats

I'm with Poulin. All the RFAs are looking at Matthews deal and demands have increased, and guys want to go straight to free agency, Marner is no exception.

I’m just saying when you dig deep into the stats he isn’t that close.

And when millions of dollars are involved you go as deep as you can go into the stats.
- Santo_44

If Im Mariner, I refuse to take even a nickel less than Matthews

from what I just looked at he had
5 EN (against and with)
1 goal 4 on 5

I try not to remember things when I am looking up stats, I just look up stats
- senstroll

“I think you are wrong”


“You think? Because I know I’m right I checked”

“Oh”

Have you ever used naturalstattrick?

That’ll tell you exactly who played with who and compare how players did with or without one another.
- Santo_44

So how did Matthews do better with Nylander?

If Im Mariner, I refuse to take even a nickel less than Matthews
- RippedFuel

Then he won’t be wearing a Leaf jersey.

Hopefully another team gives it to him because I doubt it.

No they arent.
Mm - leading scorer on the team 2 years in a row.
Leads the entire league in 5 on 5 primary assists
Marner plays a 200ft gam like a center
Kills penalties
Am - 0.95 ppg
Mm - 0.92 ppg
Am - avg goals per season - 39
Mm - avg goals per season - 24
Am - avg assist per season- 32
Mm - avg assist per season- 53
Am - total pts - 211
Mm - total pts - 229
Am - Toi/g - 18
Mm - Toi/g - 17

Yup extremely far off
- Fakepartofme

It is hard to ignore the results between the two. Marner is a stellar player, there's no doubt. Scoring Chances created / 60 doesn't do Marner the same justice as these numbers.

The one thing I will admit I struggle with the most is the assertion that Marner plays a 200ft game. I don't really think he does. I think Matthews gets a lot of credit for playing a good 200ft game as well, when I don't think he does yet either. Matthews shows signs of being able to do those fantastic things that Stone does, but he's not there yet consistently. He simply doesn't work hard enough on the back check. Neither does Marner -- consistently.

Marner gets put out on the PK, but it's not because he's good defensively inasmuch as it's because he's a disruptor. Like Kapanen. They accelerate very well. They are shifty, which allows them to close gaps a bit more and offensively capitalize upon gaffes the other team makes.

I'm with Poulin. All the RFAs are looking at Matthews deal and demands have increased, and guys want to go straight to free agency, Marner is no exception.
- aminnes

but hes a Toronto boy....its his home team...and with all the millions in endorsements...hes going to give a discount from everything Ive read on this thread over the last few months

Isnt he??

Oh and Matthews is signed already, everyone else is signed already...there is a cap...only so much space left.

Sorry Mitch you have to play for "only" 9 or 9.5 mil

from what I just looked at he had
5 EN (against and with)
1 goal 4 on 5

I try not to remember things when I am looking up stats, I just look up stats
- senstroll

We all are aware Matthews is a goal scorer, the point of the post was that Marner is not just getting PP points and that is why he isn't as valuable as Mathews, which was the argument being made, and has been made for weeks on here. Marner scores 5vs5 whether goals or assists just fine and is not just a PP guy.

Itll be interesting to see who has the better year, Dahlin vs. Ceci.

A nice side chess match to keep an eye on.
- RippedFuel

Yeah, it'll be interesting. It'll be fun to compare our 6th defenseman to your top pairing defenseman.

Another good "chess match" would be to see who will have a better year; Tavares or Johan Larsson.

Itll be interesting to see who has the better year, Dahlin vs. Ceci.

A nice side chess match to keep an eye on.
- RippedFuel

Yes and Barrie v. McCabe too.

Yeah, it'll be interesting. It'll be fun to compare our 6th defenseman to your top pairing defenseman.

Another good "chess match" would be to see who will have a better year; Tavares or Johan Larsson.
- PatC80

agreed...that one is a coin flip too.

It is hard to ignore the results between the two. Marner is a stellar player, there's no doubt. Scoring Chances created / 60 doesn't do Marner the same justice as these numbers.

The one thing I will admit I struggle with the most is the assertion that Marner plays a 200ft game. I don't really think he does. I think Matthews gets a lot of credit for playing a good 200ft game as well, when I don't think he does yet either. Matthews shows signs of being able to do those fantastic things that Stone does, but he's not there yet consistently. He simply doesn't work hard enough on the back check. Neither does Marner -- consistently.

Marner gets put out on the PK, but it's not because he's good defensively inasmuch as it's because he's a disruptor. Like Kapanen. They accelerate very well. They are shifty, which allows them to close gaps a bit more and offensively capitalize upon gaffes the other team makes.
- Monkeypunk

Yup. This is a big deal if they want to go all the way, for everyone on the team.

We all are aware Matthews is a goal scorer, the point of the post was that Marner is not just getting PP points and that is why he isn't as valuable as Mathews, which was the argument being made, and has been made for weeks on here. Marner scores 5vs5 whether goals or assists just fine and is not just a PP guy.
- aminnes

ok, well he isnt as valuable as Matthews

I'm with Poulin. All the RFAs are looking at Matthews deal and demands have increased, and guys want to go straight to free agency, Marner is no exception.
- aminnes

Poulin - always a good place to seek knowledge.

agreed...that one is a coin flip too.
- RippedFuel

Oh for sure, Larsson almost had 7 goals last year

In todays game, Miller and Montour are both much better players than Risto. much better.

Risto cant get the puck out of his end ever. Hes a mess when he has the puck in his end. He CONSTANTLY loses position to try to make a hit.

Miller is ROCK solid positionally and Montour is ridiculously fluid in clearing the zone.

And Dahlin...well.....don't even get me started
- RippedFuel

miller is terrible in is own zone

mountour is gardiner, but with less offense so far

you should keep your posts shorter. longer posts reveal how little you know.

marner really shouldn't even get echl money. ppg.

matthews/marner/echl
Year 1: 0.84/ ohl/ 0.69
Year 2: 1.02/ 0.79/ 0.93
Year 3: 1.07/ 0.84/ 0.96
Year 4: x/ 1.15/ 1.06
- Tumbleweed

why include the OHL?

AM/MM/ECHL
year 1" .084/ 0.79/ 0.69
year 2: 1.02/ 0.84/ 0.93
year 3 1.07/ 1.15/ 1.06

Career avg
AM - .966
MM - .929
Eichel - .905

So how shouldnt he based on ppg?
center/winger aside.

Yup. This is a big deal if they want to go all the way, for everyone on the team.
- aminnes

Agreed...they both need to set better examples. Im worried itll only get worse now that they got their money. (Mariner pending)

but hes a Toronto boy....its his home team...and with all the millions in endorsements...hes going to give a discount from everything Ive read on this thread over the last few months

Isnt he??
- RippedFuel

Nope. If they don't free up more space his ass will sit out, no doubt about it.

ok, well he isnt as valuable as Matthews
- senstroll

Agreed, there is only one player I would take over Matthews and that's McDavid.
Mariner can go fly a kite, if he wants Matthews money