I'm not a huge Shattenkirk fan, but I'd take him over Ceci especially at that price. But that's obviously not on the table and Shat doesn't want to play here anyways.

I think Babcock and company see something they can fix in Ceci or least mitigate some of his poor decision making with a solid partner in Rielly.

But the prototypical stay-at-home defenseman are a rare breed nowadays. If they can't move the puck with speed and skill, they're a liability in their own end. The league is a lot smaller now: you don't have Primeaus and Lindros plowing into the zone, which required the Prongers and Hatchers to match up.
- gravyface

I'm wondering if the hope isn't that Ceci can play the Methot role - like how Methot let Karlsson just go and be Karlsson, and he was at his best because he didn't have to worry about the back-end.

I have no idea if he can or will even play that role effectively.

But plop a guy on the right side who can make an outlet pass, but primarily stay back and let Rielly just go. Obviously, if Ceci was as effective at it as, say, Methot, he would've already been in that role.

Those days are gone and not coming back. Kids growing up are different: they're all friends, they play Fortnite together, big guys coming up in the league are like Gauthier: gentle giants.
- gravyface

This was probably15 years ago, but for my wife's birthday we went to a Leafs game and then Harbour60 afterwards.

All the Russian players were there, having dinner together. Leafs and Red Wings.

So philly is gonna get 12 of those guys....and all will be skilled?
- Fakepartofme

12 big hardplaying guys yes.
That would include likes defenders like Provorov, Hedman, Zadorov etc., forwards like Clutterbuck (4th liner), Crouse, Josh Anderson and some other bigger players upfront (that might not be big hitters, but still play physical; e.g. Hyman). There are still some players with size that can play really well - it's not like hockey all of a sudden became a no-contact sport right? (except for willie nylander).

Those days are gone and not coming back. Kids growing up are different: they're all friends, they play Fortnite together, big guys coming up in the league are like Gauthier: gentle giants.
- gravyface

probably 70-80% of players are like that now.
can still focus on the remaining 20-30%.
it's like how Vegas selected in the expansion draft; they did a fantastic job of drafting not always the most skilled players, but getting guys in that had the right attitude for a team in startup mode (with expected more losses than wins in first few seasons). the fact that they got into the playoffs the first season was a direct result of selecting guys with the right character that made a very cohesive group - it wasn't like they had the best players (compared with other teams).
one could do the same with the players that combine size with good skill.

12 big hardplaying guys yes.
That would include likes defenders like Provorov, Hedman, Zadorov etc., forwards like Clutterbuck (4th liner), Crouse, Josh Anderson and some other bigger players upfront (that might not be big hitters, but still play physical; e.g. Hyman). There are still some players with size that can play really well - it's not like hockey all of a sudden became a no-contact sport right? (except for willie nylander).
- MaximusAurelius

You can't just go to Costco and round up a dozen of them.

There just isn't enough big nasty guys who can play hockey to make up a team.

Blues are probably the closest size-wise, and there are lots of teams with a big line or a team mentality of playing hard and physical (despite a smaller stature: like Boston).

I'd like the Leafs to put together a heavier/physical role-playing 4th line, but so does the entire league and it's slim pickings out there.

probably 70-80% of players are like that now.
can still focus on the remaining 20-30%.
it's like how Vegas selected in the expansion draft; they did a fantastic job of drafting not always the most skilled players, but getting guys in that had the right attitude for a team in startup mode (with expected more losses than wins in first few seasons). the fact that they got into the playoffs the first season was a direct result of selecting guys with the right character that made a very cohesive group - it wasn't like they had the best players (compared with other teams).
one could do the same with the players that combine size with good skill.
- MaximusAurelius

If you filter NHL forwards by size (6'3 or greater; and 210lbs or greater), who have scored more than 50 points this past year, you get 15 players:

Barkov, Ovechkin, Wheeler, Rantanen, Couturier, Matthews, Stone, Johansen, Kopitar, Hayes, Nelson, Krieder, Tuch, Lee and Thornton.

Of those, I'd say maybe 7 play their size.

If you filter NHL forwards by size (6'3 or greater; and 210lbs or greater), who have scored more than 50 points this past year, you get 15 players:

Barkov, Ovechkin, Wheeler, Rantanen, Couturier, Matthews, Stone, Johansen, Kopitar, Hayes, Nelson, Krieder, Tuch, Lee and Thornton.

Of those, I'd say maybe 7 play their size.
- Monkeypunk

Yeah and I remember people saying Sundin was soft earlier in his career in Toronto; like he was no Wendel, blah blah blah.

Don't get me wrong: a big center is all kinds of hard to handle, nasty or not; it's just physics at that point.

But you can be small and skilled and strong: look at Marchand or Rielly or Crosby: those guys are low center of gravity beasts with the puck; they are hard to play against and none of them are huge.

12 big hardplaying guys yes.
That would include likes defenders like Provorov, Hedman, Zadorov etc., forwards like Clutterbuck (4th liner), Crouse, Josh Anderson and some other bigger players upfront (that might not be big hitters, but still play physical; e.g. Hyman). There are still some players with size that can play really well - it's not like hockey all of a sudden became a no-contact sport right? (except for willie nylander).
- MaximusAurelius

Agreed. Its been very apparent in the last three playoff series that the Leaf top forwards just aren't tough enough. Not sure anything has been done to address it. Like they say...the definition of insanity...

If you filter NHL forwards by size (6'3 or greater; and 210lbs or greater), who have scored more than 50 points this past year, you get 15 players:

Barkov, Ovechkin, Wheeler, Rantanen, Couturier, Matthews, Stone, Johansen, Kopitar, Hayes, Nelson, Krieder, Tuch, Lee and Thornton.

Of those, I'd say maybe 7 play their size.
- Monkeypunk

from the top of my head, Landeskog is missing from that list (he plays a physical game even though he is smaller than 6'3 and maybe under 210lbs).
as the other comment already indicated, it's not purely about size or weight, some guys play a more physical game while being smaller (while a player like gauthier isn't really physically engaging that much).

Agreed. Its been very apparent in the last three playoff series that the Leaf top forwards just aren't tough enough. Not sure anything has been done to address it. Like they say...the definition of insanity...
- RippedFuel

You? Totally. But admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.

Agreed. Its been very apparent in the last three playoff series that the Leaf top forwards just aren't tough enough. Not sure anything has been done to address it. Like they say...the definition of insanity...
- RippedFuel

well...
i think most of that will be solved next season when future hall of famer liljegren will make his appearance on the team. all will be different, leafs won't need any toughness at all - he'll just erik karlsson the leafs to a stanley cup.

well...
i think most of that will be solved next season when future hall of famer liljegren will make his appearance on the team. all will be different, leafs won't need any toughness at all - he'll just erik karlsson the leafs to a stanley cup.
- MaximusAurelius

Lets just hope theres not more of the same constant injury issues that hes experienced the last 2-3 years of his hockey career.

There comes a time you just gotta cut bait

Lets just hope theres not more of the same constant injury issues that hes experienced the last 2-3 years of his hockey career.

There comes a time you just gotta cut bait
- RippedFuel

I'm back bltches..



Also, why are you still here?

I'm back bltches..



Also, why are you still here?
- PatC80

It's like seeing a former version of myself

How's it hanging?

I'm back bltches..



Also, why are you still here?
- PatC80

To talk Leafs hockey....like everyone else

Agreed. Its been very apparent in the last three playoff series that the Leaf top forwards just aren't tough enough. Not sure anything has been done to address it. Like they say...the definition of insanity...
- RippedFuel

...is trolling at 5 in the morning?

I'm back bltches..



Also, why are you still here?
- PatC80

I can never get over your location.

It's like seeing a former version of myself

How's it hanging?
- RickJames77

It's hanging to the left for now.

How about you?

I can never get over your location.
- Aaron_85

To talk Leafs hockey....like everyone else
- RippedFuel

Like how Mariner is holding us hostage?

Like how Mariner is holding us hostage?
- PatC80

He's peaked, he'll never do better than last year. Trade the bum!

Dude?

https://www.tsn.ca/report...v-based-on-term-1.1347310

Dude?

https://www.tsn.ca/report...v-based-on-term-1.1347310
- PatC80

Just sign the guy.

Dude?

https://www.tsn.ca/report...v-based-on-term-1.1347310
- PatC80

IF he really wanted to be a TRUE Leaf, he'd be happy with 6/yr for 8 years. Where else would he want to play.

Have some pride and do the right thing, Mitch

Dude?

https://www.tsn.ca/report...v-based-on-term-1.1347310
- PatC80

This isn't really news per se, just a summary of what's been going on.