We were talking about contract sizes the other day and how close the leafs are to the 50max limit and someone mentioned that they were at 48, and still need room marner and neuvirth. But 2 of the contracts (sandin and sda) are slide rule candidates so may be more like 46.

We were talking about contract sizes the other day and how close the leafs are to the 50max limit and someone mentioned that they were at 48, and still need room marner and neuvirth. But 2 of the contracts (sandin and sda) are slide rule candidates so may be more like 46.
- burn

I wasn't aware of this rule...good to know

And what do you read the CBA on your spare time!

We were talking about contract sizes the other day and how close the leafs are to the 50max limit and someone mentioned that they were at 48, and still need room marner and neuvirth. But 2 of the contracts (sandin and sda) are slide rule candidates so may be more like 46.
- burn

They're still signed, so it doesn't matter, I don't think.

I am not realyl familiar here, but I don't think you can do anything that basically ignores the fact that a player is signed.

Let's say somehow Read really impresses at camp, and so does Neuvirth - they'd have to trade someone that's signed for a draft pick. Like, I don't know . . . Gauthier for a 7th.

They're still signed, so it doesn't matter, I don't think.

I am not realyl familiar here, but I don't think you can do anything that basically ignores the fact that a player is signed.

Let's say somehow Read really impresses at camp, and so does Neuvirth - they'd have to trade someone that's signed for a draft pick. Like, I don't know . . . Gauthier for a 7th.
- Monkeypunk

Ignore this guy ^^^. He's wrong.

It took 12 seconds of Googling.

I’m not sure why all the negative on Ceci. For a number of years he played heavy minutes. He played on a bad team. I believe he is a top four defenseman and I believe he will do well for the Leafs and probably sign a contract when his contract expires in Toronto somewhere for 5million average annually.

I’m not sure why all the negative on Ceci. For a number of years he played heavy minutes. He played on a bad team. I believe he is a top four defenseman and I believe he will do well for the Leafs and probably sign a contract when his contract expires in Toronto somewhere for 5million average annually.
- TOGENIUS

I think it depends on how you view analytics. He's pretty bad in that regard, which seems to line up with the eye test. Then again, like you said the Senators were one of the worst teams I've seen this past year, so we'll see. I'll be curious to see how he does in Toronto.

I’m not sure why all the negative on Ceci. For a number of years he played heavy minutes. He played on a bad team. I believe he is a top four defenseman and I believe he will do well for the Leafs and probably sign a contract when his contract expires in Toronto somewhere for 5million average annually.
- TOGENIUS

For that to happen he would have to play 20 plus minutes and be the benefactor of being on one of the leagues highest scoring teams. I can also see Babcock losing patience with him when he struggles. Although the way things are going with salaries, you don't have to be top four to command a rich deal

For that to happen he would have to play 20 plus minutes and be the benefactor of being on one of the leagues highest scoring teams. I can also see Babcock losing patience with him when he struggles. Although the way things are going with salaries, you don't have to be top four to command a rich deal
- Hardbalz

Just be thankful taking him on for a year got you out of Zaitsev's term. I still can't believe the Tyler Myers contract, speaking of not having to be a top defenceman to get paid.

I think it depends on how you view analytics. He's pretty bad in that regard, which seems to line up with the eye test. Then again, like you said the Senators were one of the worst teams I've seen this past year, so we'll see. I'll be curious to see how he does in Toronto.
- RickJames77

It's funny. We won't know for sure until we see him play. Leaf Management thinks there's something there, and they've been fairly successful in their evaluations to date, so they've earned some benefit of the doubt.

If you look strictly at analytics on the whole, it can suffer from the same myopia as +/- as a stat. Similar to +/-, though, I often find that if you don't want to really dig in (quality of competition, utilization, zone starts, and all the other jazz), just looking at a relative comparison to team mates gives you a sense.

Last year on a terrible Ottawa team, Ceci was also terrible, but he wasn't the most terrible. He was only third.

Despite trying to remain objective, and have faith . . .it's still like being handed a bowl of rotten fish and eating the third least rotten fish. There's a high chance you're going to be sickened, or at the very least feel some serious stomach pains.

Yes. I did just call Ceci a rotten fish.

It's funny. We won't know for sure until we see him play. Leaf Management thinks there's something there, and they've been fairly successful in their evaluations to date, so they've earned some benefit of the doubt.

If you look strictly at analytics on the whole, it can suffer from the same myopia as +/- as a stat. Similar to +/-, though, I often find that if you don't want to really dig in (quality of competition, utilization, zone starts, and all the other jazz), just looking at a relative comparison to team mates gives you a sense.

Last year on a terrible Ottawa team, Ceci was also terrible, but he wasn't the most terrible. He was only third.

Despite trying to remain objective, and have faith . . .it's still like being handed a bowl of rotten fish and eating the third least rotten fish. There's a high chance you're going to be sickened, or at the very least feel some serious stomach pains.

Yes. I did just call Ceci a rotten fish.
- Monkeypunk

Can we all agree that Leafs fans should just throw rotten fish at him whenever he makes a bad play. Thanks in advance.

-Rest of the League's fans

But I agree with you, which is why I said we'll just have to see what happens.

I wasn't aware of this rule...good to know

And what do you read the CBA on your spare time!
- RickJames77

I'm shocked

I'm shocked


- 21peter

- RickJames77

I think the Leafs dodged the Shattenkirk bullet....very poor defensively. They don't need an offensive D-man... they have enough. They need a tough D man to kill penalties, battle in the corners and clear the front of the net.... make it tough for the opposing forwards.

I think the Leafs dodged the Shattenkirk bullet....very poor defensively. They don't need an offensive D-man... they have enough. They need a tough D man to kill penalties, battle in the corners and clear the front of the net.... make it tough for the opposing forwards.
- caper_12

Rasanen

I think the Leafs dodged the Shattenkirk bullet....very poor defensively. They don't need an offensive D-man... they have enough. They need a tough D man to kill penalties, battle in the corners and clear the front of the net.... make it tough for the opposing forwards.
- caper_12

like ...who we talking about?

The player you describe is usually one of those players that just keeps getting stuck in his own end because he is not very good..but does those things you describe, because he is not very good. The PK thing doesnt bother me, imo you can coach players to be a good PK'er, and usually good players are good pk'ers, because they are good players

I think the Leafs dodged the Shattenkirk bullet....very poor defensively. They don't need an offensive D-man... they have enough. They need a tough D man to kill penalties, battle in the corners and clear the front of the net.... make it tough for the opposing forwards.
- caper_12

So you'd rather have Ceci at $4.5 million than Shattenkirk at $1.75 million?

like ...who we talking about?

The player you describe is usually one of those players that just keeps getting stuck in his own end because he is not very good..but does those things you describe, because he is not very good. The PK thing doesnt bother me, imo you can coach players to be a good PK'er, and usually good players are good pk'ers, because they are good players
- senstroll

Every D is stuck in their own zone 50% of the time or pretty close to it.

Every D is stuck in their own zone 50% of the time or pretty close to it.
- Garnie

oh ok. get anyone then

The headline should have read "Shattenkirk does Leafs a huge favour: signs somewhere else".

I think the Leafs dodged the Shattenkirk bullet....very poor defensively. They don't need an offensive D-man... they have enough. They need a tough D man to kill penalties, battle in the corners and clear the front of the net.... make it tough for the opposing forwards.
- caper_12

I'm not a huge Shattenkirk fan, but I'd take him over Ceci especially at that price. But that's obviously not on the table and Shat doesn't want to play here anyways.

I think Babcock and company see something they can fix in Ceci or least mitigate some of his poor decision making with a solid partner in Rielly.

But the prototypical stay-at-home defenseman are a rare breed nowadays. If they can't move the puck with speed and skill, they're a liability in their own end. The league is a lot smaller now: you don't have Primeaus and Lindros plowing into the zone, which required the Prongers and Hatchers to match up.

I'm not a huge Shattenkirk fan, but I'd take him over Ceci especially at that price. But that's obviously not on the table and Shat doesn't want to play here anyways.

I think Babcock and company see something they can fix in Ceci or least mitigate some of his poor decision making with a solid partner in Rielly.

But the prototypical stay-at-home defenseman are a rare breed nowadays. If they can't move the puck with speed and skill, they're a liability in their own end. The league is a lot smaller now: you don't have Primeaus and Lindros plowing into the zone, which required the Prongers and Hatchers to match up.
- gravyface

That is - until a team (Philadelphia?) goes that way again and has a lineup with 12 of those big guys (who can still play and skate) and completely obliterates their opponents.
Unless very very skilled (Marner) the lack of physicality shows, in particularly in playoffs (example: Nylander).

Ceci was on a garbage team, so ill take the wait and see approach with him now that hes on a decent team that csn move the puck.
Not a fan of his contract, but its only one year.

That is - until a team (Philadelphia?) goes that way again and has a lineup with 12 of those big guys (who can still play and skate) and completely obliterates their opponents.
Unless very very skilled (Marner) the lack of physicality shows, in particularly in playoffs (example: Nylander).
- MaximusAurelius

So philly is gonna get 12 of those guys....and all will be skilled?

That is - until a team (Philadelphia?) goes that way again and has a lineup with 12 of those big guys (who can still play and skate) and completely obliterates their opponents.
Unless very very skilled (Marner) the lack of physicality shows, in particularly in playoffs (example: Nylander).
- MaximusAurelius

Those days are gone and not coming back. Kids growing up are different: they're all friends, they play Fortnite together, big guys coming up in the league are like Gauthier: gentle giants.