Hard not to agree with Bike and 2.0 !

How can you say that after the way Laine closed out the second half of the season? He was a -24, with 6 goals (give or take 2) in the final 40 games. While some players still contribute to their team while struggling to score, this is not the case with Laine. He simply smothers his linemates with turnovers, and is a liability in his own zone. Maybe he will score 35+ goals, but he and his expensive line mates will struggle mightily 5v5. Unless Gary Roberts is willing to personally train and motivate him, I see little improvement coming out of Laine.
- bikeguy99

I, too, love using plus/minus and shooting percentage to evaluate players.
Again, smothering linemates with turnovers, being a defensive liability, scoring goals but struggling mightily at 5v5... this sounds a lot like Kyle Connor

Hard not to agree with Bike and 2.0 !
- bennythehat

Also agree here. It's beyond obvious that Laine's second half was pretty much horrific on just about any measure.

That all being said, the kid still has lots of potential so it's too early to write him off. I'm way more worried though about an offer sheet for Kyle Connor than I would about one for Laine.

Also agree here. It's beyond obvious that Laine's second half was pretty much horrific on just about any measure.

That all being said, the kid still has lots of potential so it's too early to write him off. I'm way more worried though about an offer sheet for Kyle Connor than I would about one for Laine.
- jetsnation

Kyle Connor is a perfect fit for Scheifele and Wheeler. Connor creates several take-aways and the Jets get more than one scoring plays quite often on one zone entry. I'd think that Schedife and Wheels want and ask for Connor on their line.
Connor's problem is that he just gets going with the top pair - and they get split up so that Connor can help the 2nd line going.
I too worry about Connor getting an offer sheet. Teams may be afraid they get stuck with Patrick if they offer big money to him. NHL teams have pro scouts that must see what most fans saw from Patrick from Dec-April last season - little! Don't know, can you teach a perimeter player desire and willingness to win puck battles - any puck battle?

Kyle Connor is a perfect fit for Scheifele and Wheeler. Connor creates several take-aways and the Jets get more than one scoring plays quite often on one zone entry. I'd think that Schedife and Wheels want and ask for Connor on their line.
Connor's problem is that he just gets going with the top pair - and they get split up so that Connor can help the 2nd line going.
I too worry about Connor getting an offer sheet. Teams may be afraid they get stuck with Patrick if they offer big money to him. NHL teams have pro scouts that must see what most fans saw from Patrick from Dec-April last season - little! Don't know, can you teach a perimeter player desire and willingness to win puck battles - any puck battle?
- grahamzky

With Connor on the top line they consistently got out shot, out chanced and out scored by the other teams top line. I don’t understand how so many jets fans are missing this very important point? They are not a great line if your playing them as much as we did against the other teams best. Ehlers was a far better linemate for 55&26

With Connor on the top line they consistently got out shot, out chanced and out scored by the other teams top line. I don’t understand how so many jets fans are missing this very important point? They are not a great line if your playing them as much as we did against the other teams best. Ehlers was a far better linemate for 55&26
- Ross77

But I still desperately want to see 55&26 split up!!!

Laine defensively is actually almost identical to Connor in every single way.

All the anylitics show this!!!! Yet he takes all the heat in here? It’s baffling.

Now go look at points or goals per minute played between the two.

Laine scored 30 goals in a bad year and being only 20 years old. I think some need to read that sentence 25 times or more to understand what we have with him.

Laine defensively is actually almost identical to Connor in every single way.

All the anylitics show this!!!! Yet he takes all the heat in here? It’s baffling.

Now go look at points or goals per minute played between the two.

Laine scored 30 goals in a bad year and being only 20 years old. I think some need to read that sentence 25 times or more to understand what we have with him.
- Ross77

as per Natural Stat Trick, 2018/19 5v5:

On Ice:
Laine - CF%45, , FF%45, SF%43, GF%43, Off.Zone starts 62%
Connor - CF%48, FF%48, SF%47, GF%47, Off. Zone starts 60%

individual stats:
Laine - giveaways 35, takeaways 26, penalties drawn 13, offensive high danger chances 41, involved in 56% of lines points
Connor - giveaways 22, takeaways 49, penalties drawn 9, offensive high danger chances 66, involved in 66% of lines points

to highlight a few of the 1000's of gaps in this data:
*this reflects the entire season including the month of November when Laine was brilliant.
*This doesn't show hustle/effort to be better
*doesn't allow for the years of maturity advantage that connor has.
*It doesn't show the change of play style from linemates to compensate or accommodate linemates.
*obviously much available data is omitted, most of that was a wash between the two

as per Natural Stat Trick, 2018/19 5v5:

On Ice:
Laine - CF%45, , FF%45, SF%43, GF%43, Off.Zone starts 62%
Connor - CF%48, FF%48, SF%47, GF%47, Off. Zone starts 60%

individual stats:
Laine - giveaways 35, takeaways 26, penalties drawn 13, offensive high danger chances 41, involved in 56% of lines points
Connor - giveaways 22, takeaways 49, penalties drawn 9, offensive high danger chances 66, involved in 66% of lines points

to highlight a few of the 1000's of gaps in this data:
*this reflects the entire season including the month of November when Laine was brilliant.
*This doesn't show hustle/effort to be better
*doesn't allow for the years of maturity advantage that connor has.
*It doesn't show the change of play style from linemates to compensate or accommodate linemates.
*obviously much available data is omitted, most of that was a wash between the two
- 2.0

Well done 2.0. You might also add the fact that Connor plays with Wheeler through most of those stats and Wheeler is terrible defensively. Laine gets to play with Ehlers and Little who both are very good defensively.

Well done 2.0. You might also add the fact that Connor plays with Wheeler through most of those stats and Wheeler is terrible defensively. Laine gets to play with Ehlers and Little who both are very good defensively.
- jetsnation

What!!! Are you honestly trying to say Laine is helped by the line he is on more than one Connor is on??? That’s hilarious. What I saw from the stats was one bad defensive player next to a slightly worse defensive player.
Also no mention of goals per ice time, or the age of the players. Anyone thinking Connor’s ceiling is higher is high themselves.

as per Natural Stat Trick, 2018/19 5v5:

On Ice:
Laine - CF%45, , FF%45, SF%43, GF%43, Off.Zone starts 62%
Connor - CF%48, FF%48, SF%47, GF%47, Off. Zone starts 60%

individual stats:
Laine - giveaways 35, takeaways 26, penalties drawn 13, offensive high danger chances 41, involved in 56% of lines points
Connor - giveaways 22, takeaways 49, penalties drawn 9, offensive high danger chances 66, involved in 66% of lines points

to highlight a few of the 1000's of gaps in this data:
*this reflects the entire season including the month of November when Laine was brilliant.
*This doesn't show hustle/effort to be better
*doesn't allow for the years of maturity advantage that connor has.
*It doesn't show the change of play style from linemates to compensate or accommodate linemates.
*obviously much available data is omitted, most of that was a wash between the two
- 2.0

So what I’m seeing is since this team is sooooo dam dependant on the power play it’s fantastic and desperately needed to have Laine out there more since he draws so many more penalties. Cool

What!!! Are you honestly trying to say Laine is helped by the line he is on more than one Connor is on??? That’s hilarious. What I saw from the stats was one bad defensive player next to a slightly worse defensive player.
Also no mention of goals per ice time, or the age of the players. Anyone thinking Connor’s ceiling is higher is high themselves.
- Ross77

I did mention the age difference (maturity). Laine's ceiling is much higher but as I see it Connor is better for now and is progressing more rapidly to his ceiling. I have significant doubt that Laine will reach his ceiling.

The "eye test" always beats the stats.

So what I’m seeing is since this team is sooooo dam dependant on the power play it’s fantastic and desperately needed to have Laine out there more since he draws so many more penalties. Cool
- Ross77

trying to be impartial and display the more significant differences between the stats of each player and the penalties drawn is a difference.

The "eye test" always beats the stats.
- bennythehat

I don't believe in imperatives but the game is more fun to watch than the stats.

as per Natural Stat Trick, 2018/19 5v5:

On Ice:
Laine - CF%45, , FF%45, SF%43, GF%43, Off.Zone starts 62%
Connor - CF%48, FF%48, SF%47, GF%47, Off. Zone starts 60%

individual stats:
Laine - giveaways 35, takeaways 26, penalties drawn 13, offensive high danger chances 41, involved in 56% of lines points
Connor - giveaways 22, takeaways 49, penalties drawn 9, offensive high danger chances 66, involved in 66% of lines points

to highlight a few of the 1000's of gaps in this data:
*this reflects the entire season including the month of November when Laine was brilliant.
*This doesn't show hustle/effort to be better
*doesn't allow for the years of maturity advantage that connor has.
*It doesn't show the change of play style from linemates to compensate or accommodate linemates.
*obviously much available data is omitted, most of that was a wash between the two
- 2.0

Connor 1, Laine 0

I, too, love using plus/minus and shooting percentage to evaluate players.
Again, smothering linemates with turnovers, being a defensive liability, scoring goals but struggling mightily at 5v5... this sounds a lot like Kyle Connor
- Rexypoo

Obviously the +/- stat is not a good representation of an individual player, however, on a team as good as the Jets, Laine's -24 blew away his fellow team mates. Also, if we are to talk shooting percentage, Laine was 12.2%, which is very good. What do you feel Laine's % will be this year? I just want to know what aspect of Laine's game you see drastic changes in?

as per Natural Stat Trick, 2018/19 5v5:

On Ice:
Laine - CF%45, , FF%45, SF%43, GF%43, Off.Zone starts 62%
Connor - CF%48, FF%48, SF%47, GF%47, Off. Zone starts 60%

individual stats:
Laine - giveaways 35, takeaways 26, penalties drawn 13, offensive high danger chances 41, involved in 56% of lines points
Connor - giveaways 22, takeaways 49, penalties drawn 9, offensive high danger chances 66, involved in 66% of lines points

to highlight a few of the 1000's of gaps in this data:
*this reflects the entire season including the month of November when Laine was brilliant.
*This doesn't show hustle/effort to be better
*doesn't allow for the years of maturity advantage that connor has.
*It doesn't show the change of play style from linemates to compensate or accommodate linemates.
*obviously much available data is omitted, most of that was a wash between the two
- 2.0

So drawn penalties 13-9, or one drawn penalty difference every 20 games, eh?

Connor 1, Laine 0
- bikeguy99

Not really. When you use the raw totals, you aren’t accounting for either ice time or linemates.
I’d like to see the numbers relative to the team, for both players, as well as their respective rates across the board.
I would especially love to see the comparison if you took Little and Scheifele out of the equation.

As for the scoring chances, you must take these 3 factors into account:
1: Scheifele is a hell of a drug.
2: ICE TIME.
3: Laine doesn’t need high danger chances to score like most players do. We all know Connor is way more of a puck hound in the paint than Laine is, but Laine is a threat all over the ice. He’s scoring outside of the dangerous areas on a regular basis, so HDSC doesn’t mean jack sh*t to Patrik Laine

Obviously the +/- stat is not a good representation of an individual player, however, on a team as good as the Jets, Laine's -24 blew away his fellow team mates. Also, if we are to talk shooting percentage, Laine was 12.2%, which is very good. What do you feel Laine's % will be this year? I just want to know what aspect of Laine's game you see drastic changes in?
- bikeguy99

Remember that time Jeff Schultz torched the league with a +55?

And if I’m honest, I don’t expect any massive change in Laine’s game. Just a progression of all aspects. And a 17%+ for the shooting

Not really. When you use the raw totals, you aren’t accounting for either ice time or linemates.
I’d like to see the numbers relative to the team, for both players, as well as their respective rates across the board.
I would especially love to see the comparison if you took Little and Scheifele out of the equation.

As for the scoring chances, you must take these 3 factors into account:
1: Scheifele is a hell of a drug.
2: ICE TIME.
3: Laine doesn’t need high danger chances to score like most players do. We all know Connor is way more of a puck hound in the paint than Laine is, but Laine is a threat all over the ice. He’s scoring outside of the dangerous areas on a regular basis, so HDSC doesn’t mean jack sh*t to Patrik Laine
- Rexypoo

What about quality of competition? Scheifele's line is consistently paired up against other teams top lines. Maurice normally deploys Lowry's line right after Scheifele's line. So essentially Connor is on a line facing the other teams top line, Lowry goes out and plays against the other teams number 2 line. Leaving Laine-Little-Ehlers to play against other teams 3rd lines, meaning that Laine-Little-Ehlers should be absolutely torching their competition. Have you considered that?

Furthermore, looking at the giveaway/takeaway ratio that was previously posted, Laine is a -9 while Connor is a +27. Thought I would pipe in before I return to my sabbatical.

Not really. When you use the raw totals, you aren’t accounting for either ice time or linemates.
I’d like to see the numbers relative to the team, for both players, as well as their respective rates across the board.
I would especially love to see the comparison if you took Little and Scheifele out of the equation.

As for the scoring chances, you must take these 3 factors into account:
1: Scheifele is a hell of a drug.
2: ICE TIME.
3: Laine doesn’t need high danger chances to score like most players do. We all know Connor is way more of a puck hound in the paint than Laine is, but Laine is a threat all over the ice. He’s scoring outside of the dangerous areas on a regular basis, so HDSC doesn’t mean jack sh*t to Patrik Laine
- Rexypoo

1. I would love to see Little and Ehlers if Laine was out of the equation
2. most numbers are percentages and as such account for some of the ice time differences as these are not totals.
3. Laine showed little interest in developing his game by finding new ways and places to score from. I agree that he doesn't care about HDSC, but he should.
4. Most of his goals were on the PP, not sure of the goals he is scoring outside the danger areas on a 'regular basis'... though I suppose 0.07 goals per game at 5v5 can be considered regular.

The "eye test" always beats the stats.
- bennythehat

said the Atlanta Thrashers when they drafted Zach Bogosian 5th overall

1. I would love to see Little and Ehlers if Laine was out of the equation
2. most numbers are percentages and as such account for some of the ice time differences as these are not totals.
3. Laine showed little interest in developing his game by finding new ways and places to score from. I agree that he doesn't care about HDSC, but he should.
4. Most of his goals were on the PP, not sure of the goals he is scoring outside the danger areas on a 'regular basis'... though I suppose 0.07 goals per game at 5v5 can be considered regular.
- 2.0

Not sure what you meant here. Career totals:

2016-17 : 27 ev/ 9 pp, 0.37g/g ev
2017-18 : 24 ev/ 20 pp, 0.29g/g ev
2018-19 : 15 ev/ 15 pp, 0.18g/g ev
Career: 66 ev/ 44 pp, 0.28g/g ev

said the Atlanta Thrashers when they drafted Zach Bogosian 5th overall
- BookemDano

Ha!.....