As I said, plenty of posters took this position prior to the trade. You forgot that above. Reminds me of my grandfather...

About the unicorn....what is spending $5M on a backup goalie in order to protect against an injury to Crow, and then having to dump the only center who could possibly step in as a top 6 center if Toews or Strome get hurt?

This board spent years barking at Stan for not being strong down the middle. Now he weakens the middle and the board loves it. Reminds me of....this board.
- mohel

Bass ackwards, right? That's what I'm reading.

100% and the Hawks found someone who is just as useful and a better fit for the team for less cost. He has a different skill set but fits the role they need much better.
- breadbag

Just as useful, LOL.

A legit 200 ft 3C for a 4th Line plug. AA does everything Smith does and more, at least among things that matter.

So after digesting the Arty trade, I see this trade as a wash. What keeps me incredibly optimistic is that if you look at the 3 Cups in 10-13-15, the Hawks had a two 3rd lines. Yes, one was the 3rd and one was the 4th, but they both were made up of third line players. This team has a lot of the same. Guys like Smith and Carpenter down the middle are solid defensively and play with a level of grit that is needed in those taxing playoff series.

No team in the Central has a possible bottom 6 like this:

Saad-Smith- Shaw
Kampf-Carpenter-Cagguila

That is alot of grind and skill in your bottom 6
- nickmo2699

Imo, they have three 4th line centers and a bunch of 3rd/4th line wings. No 3rd line centers. So, how will those 3rd line wings perform with a 4th line center? Will it maximize their skills, or no?

So after digesting the Arty trade, I see this trade as a wash. What keeps me incredibly optimistic is that if you look at the 3 Cups in 10-13-15, the Hawks had a two 3rd lines. Yes, one was the 3rd and one was the 4th, but they both were made up of third line players. This team has a lot of the same. Guys like Smith and Carpenter down the middle are solid defensively and play with a level of grit that is needed in those taxing playoff series.

No team in the Central has a possible bottom 6 like this:

Saad-Smith- Shaw
Kampf-Carpenter-Cagguila

That is alot of grind and skill in your bottom 6
- nickmo2699

Very true. So who are the top six guys? And who does Dach bump out of those 12 if he makes the team out of camp?

Why is it irrelevant? I don’t know all of the back story here, but if one of the main reasons he was waived was due to the financial situation of the team that is significant.

By no means am I equating the moves, but so you think the Oilers WANTED to trade Gretzky? The owner needed money.

To your second point, the Hawks just made a trade for the guy, and there are other teams in the league that would make similar moves for similar reasons. You are right there are limited options to move him, but there will be options.
- Chunk

To the other teams in the league, he's either available for free or he's not. Zero teams took him for free when they had the chance, so how could anyone think he's tradeable for an actual asset?

Just as useful, LOL.

A legit 200 ft 3C for a 4th Line plug. AA does everything Smith does and more, at least among things that matter.
- Ogilthorpe2

I don't drink the AA Kool-aid no matter how many pucks skilled wingers bank in off him. The Hawks are better off without him and they got more difficult to play against with this trade. AA is way too easy for other teams to match up against. He is way way too passive and soft for the role he had on the team. They'd be better off with the Mannequin from practice in front of the net. It shows more fire than AA did.

Yes.

If he wants $2MM - no, see ya, cut the cord, let him sit until 11/30.

$1.5MM? Unfortunately, seems to be in the market range for someone with good potential and a couple of years experience.
- StLBravesFan

Except he has zip for leverage.

2010 2nd line center Colin Fraser????
2013 2nd line center Micheal Handzus
2015 2nd line center Brad Richards

needing a great 2nd line center might be a bit over rated

This trade with Ottawa is better than Codi Ceci for Nikita Zaitsev and Connor Brown. Zaitsev is better than Ceci, and Toronto had to add Brown. Toronto saves Brown's salary of $2.1 million as Ceci and Zaitsev are a wash salary wise.

I wouldn't say highly not possible. Gus and Smith are at a combined 4.5M. Teams can accumulate cap space during the year by having players on IR and a salary may be coming back in the trade.
- boilermaker100

LTIR money does not accumulate.

As I said, plenty of posters took this position prior to the trade. You forgot that above. Reminds me of my grandfather...

About the unicorn....what is spending $5M on a backup goalie in order to protect against an injury to Crow, and then having to dump the only center who could possibly step in as a top 6 center if Toews or Strome get hurt?

This board spent years barking at Stan for not being strong down the middle. Now he weakens the middle and the board loves it. Reminds me of....this board.
- mohel

I would bet $5 million the back up won't be the $5 million guy... I haven't forgotten cap money had to be moved like you keep forgetting.

2010 2nd line center Colin Fraser????
2013 2nd line center Micheal Handzus
2015 2nd line center Brad Richards

needing a great 2nd line center might be a bit over rated
- gazza53

2010 was also Patrick Sharp playing center quite a bit who always knew how to play defense.

I don't drink the AA Kool-aid no matter how many pucks skilled wingers bank in off him. The Hawks are better off without him and they got more difficult to play against with this trade. AA is way too easy for other teams to match up against. He is way way too passive and soft for the role he had on the team. They'd be better off with the Mannequin from practice in front of the net. It shows more fire than AA did.
- breadbag

The stats show he’s just as good as Smith defensively, better than Smith offensively, takes fewer penalties, better drives possession...he’s just a better player period. There’s really no argument. The only thing Smith is better at are two of the most meaningless stats in hockey. Hits, which just means he’s chasing the puck a lot, and face off wins which statistical analysts have proven to be virtually irrelevant.

To the other teams in the league, he's either available for free or he's not. Zero teams took him for free when they had the chance, so how could anyone think he's tradeable for an actual asset?
- mohel

But he wasn’t “free”, he had a salary that would need to be fit under the cap and was waived late when many teams rosters were set. To your second point, he just was traded for an actual asset. Teams have various reasons for the moves they make.

I’m not a big fan of the move myself, I think he is a slightly better version of Carpenter and it seems like that are overcompensating for their lack of fight last year.

Slight diversion: There are a lot of differing opinions on what a 3C should provide. What are your expectations for a 3C?

I would bet $5 million the back up won't be the $5 million guy... I haven't forgotten cap money had to be moved like you keep forgetting.
- rpeters01

Ok, why did cap money have to be moved? Anyone? Yep, because Stan put $11M into the goalie position. That cost him a 3rd line center. Hopefully he gets another top 9 center before the season.

Ok, why did cap money have to be moved? Anyone? Yep, because Stan put $11M into the goalie position. That cost him a 3rd line center. Hopefully he gets another top 9 center before the season.
- mohel

So you would of been OK signing Ward again for $3 mil.? Or you roll the dice with Delia who I contend is not ready for prime time if thee is an injury to Crow?

You didn't read what I said properly and it boggles my mind what people are saying is they would rather have AA and Delia/Lainkenin than Lehner and Smith. My head hurts.

Imo, they have three 4th line centers and a bunch of 3rd/4th line wings. No 3rd line centers. So, how will those 3rd line wings perform with a 4th line center? Will it maximize their skills, or no?
- mohel

Well, I would hope so. Smith is a borderline thirdline center. If Dach makes this team. Then he would likely slot in between Saad and Shaw and move smith to the fourth line with Cagguila and Carpenter.

The stats show he’s just as good as Smith defensively, better than Smith offensively, takes fewer penalties, better drives possession...he’s just a better player period. There’s really no argument. The only thing Smith is better at are two of the most meaningless stats in hockey. Hits, which just means he’s chasing the puck a lot, and face off wins which statistical analysts have proven to be virtually irrelevant.
- Ogilthorpe2

And PIMs. He takes a lot of stupid minors...like top 15 in the league

AA...was 347th in the league for minor penalties

So for a team that cant kill penalties, this idiot wont help. And he may be slower than AA as well...for those that complained he wasnt quick enough

So you would of been OK signing Ward again for $3 mil.? Or you roll the dice with Delia who I contend is not ready for prime time if thee is an injury to Crow?
- LAHawk

Exactly, they would rather have AA and Delia/Lainkenin than Lehner Smith that's lunacy.

All nonsense
- Ogilthorpe2

Man, I thought you got a good nights sleep and came back happy too? I guess not.

Why he was waived is irrelevant. He was waived. Nobody wanted him with that contract. Unless he gets better at 31 why would they be able to trade him without a sweetener? Who is paying $3M+ for a 4th line wing?
- mohel

and whats makes you so sure he is just some 4th line grunt...his numbers indicate more than that on a real bad team...

But he wasn’t “free”, he had a salary that would need to be fit under the cap and was waived late when many teams rosters were set. To your second point, he just was traded for an actual asset. Teams have various reasons for the moves they make.

I’m not a big fan of the move myself, I think he is a slightly better version of Carpenter and it seems like that are overcompensating for their lack of fight last year.

Slight diversion: There are a lot of differing opinions on what a 3C should provide. What are your expectations for a 3C?
- Chunk

Exactly. Nobody wanted him with that contract - for free. He still has the contract, so how could one expect to get an asset in return now? I'm sure OTT would've traded him at the TDL last year if they coulda received an asset.

I thought the Hawks wanted three lines that could score, with the third being defensively sound and capable of taking advantage of good matchups. So, the centers is a solid all-around player who can help his line score. I think AA can do that, and the 4th line centers can't.

The stats show he’s just as good as Smith defensively, better than Smith offensively, takes fewer penalties, better drives possession...he’s just a better player period. There’s really no argument. The only thing Smith is better at are two of the most meaningless stats in hockey. Hits, which just means he’s chasing the puck a lot, and face off wins which statistical analysts have proven to be virtually irrelevant.
- Ogilthorpe2

Please elaborate on the stats that make you feel that AA is good defensively. I'm not talking about when he played 2C with Kane, but when he was playing with bottom 6 line mates specifically at 3C.

When deployed defensively AA's line was dominated way too often for my liking. What I see in the stats is that Chicago was a better team than Ottawa and AA had better overall support on the ice. I don't see some big drop off in losing AA. You obviously feel he was some huge cog in the Blackhawks machine, but I don't agree and I don't plan on convincing you.

Man, I thought you got a good nights sleep and came back happy too? I guess not.
- BlackhawkMike

Hilarious to see the Saint Bowman protectors over the years turning on him like the Knights Watch turning on Jon Snow over Artem (frank)ing Anisimov


EDIT: 7/16/19 will be long known as the Great Mutiny of Stan Bowman by his loyal Hockeybuzz defenders!!!