I agree, but Plus/Minus only tracks ES goals
- Murphy_Dump

You are incorrect.

You get a minus if a shorthanded goal is scored against the PP

You get a plus if your team scores a shorty

You get a minus if the team scores an empty net goal in your net.

Those are all arbitrary tallies which make it a garbage stat.

Goal differentials and shot differentials stay consistent based on situations. (5v5, PK, PP, ENG, etc.)

I’m not sure how you’re not grasping this.
- j.boyd919

That's literally what I posted.

Exactly what am I not grasping?

Interesting article from Dom at the Athletic. He went through every team an ranked how well they did on non-ELC. Surprisingly, the Pens were 7 best.

That the Penguins are in the top 10 despite their infamous escapades during free agency should say it all when it comes to team cap efficiency: every team has its problems.

It doesn't ignore the JJ, Gudbranson, Tanev deals. It is a little optimistic on Hornqvist, IMO, saying only his last year will be bad (it takes aging into account). But it's more than balanced by great deals for Crosby, Guentzel, and Letang among others. Doesn't even have Blueger's deal or of course Pettersson's which should set up as another good value deal.

EDIT- I should add he chose not to calculate goalies at all.

Exactly what am I not grasping?
- Murphy_Dump

You said +/- only tracks even strength goals, when it does not. It tracks short handed goals/for, and empty net goals as well.

You said +/- only tracks even strength goals, when it does not. It tracks short handed goals/for, and empty net goals as well.
- j.boyd919

And then I followed up with the definition of Plus/Minus.

Empty Net goals are not factored into Plus/Minus.

From NHL.com:

Plus-Minus
A player is awarded a "plus" each time he is on the ice when his Club scores an even-strength or shorthanded goal. He receives a "minus" if he is on the ice for an even-strength or shorthanded goal scored by the opposing Club. The difference in these numbers is considered the player's "plus-minus" statistic.

From Wiki:
An empty net does not matter for the calculation of plus–minus.

From random site on Google:
In calculating the plus/minus statistic, power play goals, penalty shot goals and empty net goals are not taken into account.

And then I followed up with the definition of Plus/Minus.

Empty Net goals are not factored into Plus/Minus.

From NHL.com:

Plus-Minus
A player is awarded a "plus" each time he is on the ice when his Club scores an even-strength or shorthanded goal. He receives a "minus" if he is on the ice for an even-strength or shorthanded goal scored by the opposing Club. The difference in these numbers is considered the player's "plus-minus" statistic.
- Murphy_Dump

Empty net goals are absolutely factored into plus minus. This is what you are not getting. You intially started off by saying it was only for Even Strength goals, then changed after a few of us corrected you. Now you are saying EN goals don't count, when they do. You are so close to grasping it.

Interesting article from Dom at the Athletic. He went through every team an ranked how well they did on non-ELC. Surprisingly, the Pens were 7 best.

That the Penguins are in the top 10 despite their infamous escapades during free agency should say it all when it comes to team cap efficiency: every team has its problems.

It doesn't ignore the JJ, Gudbranson, Tanev deals. It is a little optimistic on Hornqvist, IMO, saying only his last year will be bad (it takes aging into account). But it's more than balanced by great deals for Crosby, Guentzel, and Letang among others. Doesn't even have Blueger's deal or of course Pettersson's which should set up as another good value deal.

EDIT- I should add he chose not to calculate goalies at all.
- Tojo.

He also brings up the Galchenyuk contract and it being bad. I'm starting to believe no matter what the Penguins are going to let him walk next season.

It's the middle of the summer and we are arguing about what drives plus minus. Frank this, I'm going to dehydrate myself in this horrible heat.

And then I followed up with the definition of Plus/Minus.

Empty Net goals are not factored into Plus/Minus.

From NHL.com:

Plus-Minus
A player is awarded a "plus" each time he is on the ice when his Club scores an even-strength or shorthanded goal. He receives a "minus" if he is on the ice for an even-strength or shorthanded goal scored by the opposing Club. The difference in these numbers is considered the player's "plus-minus" statistic.

From Wiki:
An empty net does not matter for the calculation of plus–minus.

From random site on Google:
In calculating the plus/minus statistic, power play goals, penalty shot goals and empty net goals are not taken into account.
- Murphy_Dump

It’s cool. You can continue being wrong. I don’t really give a poop.

It’s cool. You can continue being wrong. I don’t really give a poop.
- j.boyd919

He could literally pull a box score off the NHL website and find out the truth.

Also, does he think that Empty Net play is not even strength?

This is going to be one long off-season lol

He also brings up the Galchenyuk contract and it being bad. I'm starting to believe no matter what the Penguins are going to let him walk next season.
- burgh4life87

According to message board gm’s every contract unless it’s entry level or Sydney Crosby is bad.

It’s cool. You can continue being wrong. I don’t really give a poop.
- j.boyd919

I'm right till you prove me wrong.

It's the middle of the summer and we are arguing about what drives plus minus. Frank this, I'm going to dehydrate myself in this horrible heat.
- burgh4life87

Its almost like ppl on this site have way too much time on their hands

He also brings up the Galchenyuk contract and it being bad. I'm starting to believe no matter what the Penguins are going to let him walk next season.
- burgh4life87

I was a little surprised at that one, but Dom's model tends to weigh overall game so it's not good to one-dimensional scorers.

This is going to be one long off-season lol
- Rinosaur

LOL, mid-July to mid-September always are. Mostly just waiting on Pettersson's contract and seeing who gets dumped. And maybe where Gusev ends up.

I was a little surprised at that one, but Dom's model tends to weigh overall game so it's not good to one-dimensional scorers.
- Tojo.

One dimensional goal scorers that are a negative player defensively need to score 30+. He doesn’t do that.

I'm right till you prove me wrong.
- Murphy_Dump

You were already proved wrong. You being an ignorant bumhole doesnt make you right.

One dimensional goal scorers that are a negative player defensively need to score 30+. He doesn’t do that.
- Feds91Stammer

Agree, if you're say Phil Kessel, you can overcome that and still add value. When you put up 20 goals and 40-50 points but are poor everywhere else, you actually hurt the team.

And since our +- moron is sure to argue.. here you go. And once again, you're a moron.

https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/boxscore?id=33746
https://www.nhl.com/playe...ogs-r-nhl&season=20182019

March 10th. Jared McCann with a two goals and a +2 for the plus minus.
His goal was an empty netter and a short handed. The other Penguins goal was on the power play, and one between the 3rd line with Nick Bjugstad assisted by Patric Hornqvist and Dominik Simon as the points. Therefore, he was not on the ice.

Please eat a fat Richard, and delete your account.

Do people really not know what counts wrt +/-? I knew this when I was like 10, maybe 11.

One dimensional goal scorers that are a negative player defensively need to score 30+. He doesn’t do that.
- Feds91Stammer

Feds true or false

Yzerman > Fedorov?

Did you know Yzerman was Crosby’s idol growing up? They do share a few things in common

Its almost like ppl on this site have way too much time on their hands
- Murphy_Dump

I endorse this message (but do not endorse your plus minus argument)

Carry on 👹

Anyone care to rank the Metro? I think it’s super hard to gauge mostly because of goaltending and the impact of the young top picks

I’ll take: Caps/Pens at the top and then PHI, NJD, CAR, NYR, NYI, CBJ

I think these teams are all well coached but I think some will struggle to score while at the same time struggle to keep goals out of the net (like us last fall)

Do people really not know what counts wrt +/-? I knew this when I was like 10, maybe 11.
- jmatchett383

Dunno... but its humid out and my office has some energy saving poop mantra today so the AC is off. I'm in a bad mood

Do people really not know what counts wrt +/-? I knew this when I was like 10, maybe 11.
- jmatchett383

I mean off course lol truth is there are too many boring stats guy around nowadays. F it. Play the right way and win championships is all that matters to me.