What do you guys want for Bjugstad, assuming he's even available?
- kingcong39

Eh. We don’t really have anyone to replace him so I guess a competent 3C and cap relief?

Well, we threw Zubov away the next season for the corpse of Kevin Hatcher.....
- RoloTahmasee

And if I remember right, Lemieux had a lot to do with this trade. He wasn’t a big fan of Zubov.

Btw I really liked Kevin Hatcher lol what was the problem with him? I know we deserved a bit more in the Zubov trade..

And if I remember right, Lemieux had a lot to do with this trade. He wasn’t a big fan of Zubov.

Btw I really liked Kevin Hatcher lol what was the problem with him? I know we deserved a bit more in the Zubov trade..
- Barnaby36

1) Zubov blossomed into an elite player in Dallas

2) Hatcher still was a bigger ticket than the Baldwin/Marino era Pens could afford; hence why he ended up being flipped for Peter Popovic.

I wonder if JR trades Rust and JJ and tries to bring in another free agent. Boyle, Spooner and Paajarvi are still available. They all could be good/cheap bottom 6 players. I would love to see Paajarvi on a line with Bjugstad. Two bigger quick players playing on a line together.

Here are the relative comparisons for JJ an Riikola: https://www.naturalstattr...&td=&tgp=410&lines=single

Their raw stats were close (you can easily change it) Riikola's relatives, while still bad, are a decent bit better than JJ's. It's also not uncommon for rookies to struggle an then see a good jump the second year.

He'd also be in a better position as a bottom pairing LD than a 2nd pair RD trying to fill Schultz's spot. Going to get a lot more help from the bottom 6 forwards than he was earlier as well.

Here are the relative comparisons for JJ an Riikola: https://www.naturalstattr...&td=&tgp=410&lines=single

Their raw stats were close (you can easily change it) Riikola's relatives, while still bad, are a decent bit better than JJ's. It's also not uncommon for rookies to struggle an then see a good jump the second year.

He'd also be in a better position as a bottom pairing LD than a 2nd pair RD trying to fill Schultz's spot. Going to get a lot more help from the bottom 6 forwards than he was earlier as well.
- Tojo.

And you'd have to consider the salaries for both players. Riikola over J.Johnson on this roster is a no brainer.

1) Zubov blossomed into an elite player in Dallas

2) Hatcher still was a bigger ticket than the Baldwin/Marino era Pens could afford; hence why he ended up being flipped for Peter Popovic.
- Za Warudo

Geez. We ended up with Popovic. I know Zubov blossomed in Dallas, no doubt, but Hatcher did just fine in Pittsburgh. I find it annoying when someone says Hatcher sucked which wasn't true. Thanks for the conversation man.

We should discuss a few players and why they left:

Francis
Nedved
Morozov
Hrdina

Here are the relative comparisons for JJ an Riikola: https://www.naturalstattr...&td=&tgp=410&lines=single

Their raw stats were close (you can easily change it) Riikola's relatives, while still bad, are a decent bit better than JJ's. It's also not uncommon for rookies to struggle an then see a good jump the second year.

He'd also be in a better position as a bottom pairing LD than a 2nd pair RD trying to fill Schultz's spot. Going to get a lot more help from the bottom 6 forwards than he was earlier as well.
- Tojo.

When Rikky returned from a very long scratch last season my eyes told me he could excel with this team if he tightened things up a bit ie less mental lapses and better gap control. I witnessed him do or attempt things in a game that no one other than Letang or Schultz would plus he is pretty physical, lays good hits. He needed more play time and to not be scratched for JJ...or play in the AHL. If he doesnt get much play time this year I expect his game to still be pretty much the same...loose with slop.

And if I remember right, Lemieux had a lot to do with this trade. He wasn’t a big fan of Zubov.

Btw I really liked Kevin Hatcher lol what was the problem with him? I know we deserved a bit more in the Zubov trade..
- Barnaby36

Yep. Zubov was eating Mario’s PP touches and was like (frank) that. Next season Zubov was gonezo.

Yep. Zubov was eating Mario’s PP touches and was like (frank) that. Next season Zubov was gonezo.
- j.boyd919

In the early to mid 90s, if you were a hockey player and the choice to have the puck was either yourself or Mario Lemieux, the answer was always Mario Lemieux.

In the early to mid 90s, if you were a hockey player and the choice to have the puck was either yourself or Mario Lemieux, the answer was always Mario Lemieux.
- jmatchett383

Nah

When Rikky returned from a very long scratch last season my eyes told me he could excel with this team if he tightened things up a bit ie less mental lapses and better gap control. I witnessed him do or attempt things in a game that no one other than Letang or Schultz would plus he is pretty physical, lays good hits. He needed more play time and to not be scratched for JJ...or play in the AHL. If he doesnt get much play time this year I expect his game to still be pretty much the same...loose with slop.
- MattStrat

Riikola definitely has some tools to work with as well as some areas to improve. They should have sent him to the AHL much sooner instead of trying to force him in on the second pair.

Nah
- Feds91Stammer

okay great

Please post Mario Lemieux's CFRel so I can tell whether or not he was a good professional ice hockey player.

In the early to mid 90s, if you were a hockey player and the choice to have the puck was either yourself or Mario Lemieux, the answer was always Mario Lemieux.
- jmatchett383

A lot of players benefited from Mario, getting secondary assists or tap in goals. Should've been fun.

okay great

Please post Mario Lemieux's CFRel so I can tell whether or not he was a good professional ice hockey player.
- jmatchett383

LOL

*Feds disappears*

1) Zubov blossomed into an elite player in Dallas

2) Hatcher still was a bigger ticket than the Baldwin/Marino era Pens could afford; hence why he ended up being flipped for Peter Popovic.
- Za Warudo

The Stars D and Belfoar in net was pretty solid. Not many rosters could touch that defense. Plus Derian Hatcher was awesome.

LOL

*Feds disappears*
- Barnaby36

I am just assuming he's looking up the data to present.

I mean, after all, if you don't have mounds of raw shot data, how can you tell whether a player was actually good or not? The eye test? Looking at goal and assists totals? Those are terrible ways to evaluate players.

I just find it funny how Plus/Minus for Goals is considered a garbage stat because you cant always control when the puck goes in the net, but we are basing all of our "advanced" stats on Plus/Minus for shot attempts.

okay great

Please post Mario Lemieux's CFRel so I can tell whether or not he was a good professional ice hockey player.
- jmatchett383

Fedorov > Mario

LOL

*Feds disappears*
- Barnaby36

Sorry. Been over on capfriendly trashing everyone’s armchair gms.

I just find it funny how Plus/Minus for Goals is considered a garbage stat because you cant always control when the puck goes in the net, but we are basing all of our "advanced" stats on Plus/Minus for shot attempts.
- Murphy_Dump

Well, although I don't agree with using shot metrics as the end-all/be-all way of evaluating players, I will say 2 things:

1. There are way more shots/shot attempts per game than goals, so you get a much bigger sample size to choose from.

2. Goals have a lot to do with the goaltender, deflections, screens, and many other things that determine whether or not a shot turns into a goal.

For these reasons, plus/minus, while not "useless" as some people call it, is not a great indicator of a player (unless you are at one extreme or the other) compared to some other ways to measure a player. Then again, if you take 200 shot attempts but none of them go in, what good are they?

I am just assuming he's looking up the data to present.

I mean, after all, if you don't have mounds of raw shot data, how can you tell whether a player was actually good or not? The eye test? Looking at goal and assists totals? Those are terrible ways to evaluate players.
- jmatchett383

I’ve never watched a game in my life.

Fedorov > Mario
- Feds91Stammer

If you base it on shot and scoring chance differentials, you're probably right.

Geez. We ended up with Popovic. I know Zubov blossomed in Dallas, no doubt, but Hatcher did just fine in Pittsburgh. I find it annoying when someone says Hatcher sucked which wasn't true. Thanks for the conversation man.

We should discuss a few players and why they left:

Francis
Nedved
Morozov
Hrdina
- Barnaby36

That was a bad one because they decided they'd rather sign LeClair. He wasn't terrible, but considering what Morozov did in the KHL and had shown already they probably wish they kept him.

I just find it funny how Plus/Minus for Goals is considered a garbage stat because you cant always control when the puck goes in the net, but we are basing all of our "advanced" stats on Plus/Minus for shot attempts.
- Murphy_Dump

Larger volumes of data will show a more distinctive pattern of how one plays. If someone is routinely on the ice for more shots against than for, something isn't right. So then you look into where the shots are taken, whether it is a scoring chance, or super close to the net making a high danger chance.
Then you try to look at why they are getting those chances. Poor defense on zone entries, poor transitional game that leads to neutral zone turnovers or even defensive zone turnovers.

So by focusing only on goals you are limiting yourself to simple chances. Also, there is a goalie in net who can play his ass of and hide just how bad the team in front of him is.