How does Provorov have any leverage coming off a 25 point season where he was a -16 and turned the puck over all over the ice?
- PLindbergh31

Probably because there is more to a player than the last season...

Now that would be proper use of a player asset in Haag. As long as the player acquired is relatively young. Even then though, they won't have much wiggle room.
- MJL

Would you do Hagg for Puljarvi?

Would you do Hagg for Puljarvi?
- bulet13

No.

he played 28 NHL games prior and zero games since. He never had NHL ability. Hilarious how you don't get it.
- PLindbergh31

If it wasnt him, it would have been another dime a dozen fourth line guys. Hes a faceless, nameless roleplayer to me. He was never a problem or one of the top 5 problems with the team during his time here. If it was some other dude, youd still be making the same pedantic points about (insert name). Thats what i get

Happy with the signing, it’s a fair deal for both sides. Re the cap: I think TK ends up getting a 3 year bridge deal and Provy ends up with a long term deal. Cap wise, I think they end up starting the season with 13F, 7D and about 800K of available space.

While this seems a little tight, I expect 2 moves to occur during the season which will free up some more space. First, if none of our D sustain any long term injuries early, I expect Hagg to be dealt by early December. Second, I think Raffl could be replaced by a kid on an ELC by mid season and also dealt by mid January or so.

Also, no matter what happens, I’m more excited about the team heading into s season than I’ve been since the summer of 2011.

No.
- MJL

Yeah I agree. Just trying to set a baseline

If it wasnt him, it would have been another dime a dozen fourth line guys. Hes a faceless, nameless roleplayer to me. He was never a problem or one of the top 5 problems with the team during his time here. If it was some other dude, youd still be making the same pedantic points about (insert name). Thats what i get
- KINGKENZO

Yeah cause it's a written rule that every team must have a nickle and dime ham and egger on their 4th line. Just saw the Blues win the Cup with Alex Steen and his 700 NHL games, and 500 career points playing on the 4th line.

Yeah cause it's a written rule that every team must have a nickle and dime ham and egger on their 4th line. Just saw the Blues win the Cup with Alex Steen and his 700 NHL games, and 500 career points playing on the 4th line.
- PLindbergh31

I hope it brought you joy

I disagree. He has shown nothing to my eyes or to the stats that make me believe he should be given regular ice time. He gives up possession all the time by just slinging the puck around the boards or up and out or ices it. Hes okay in the neutral zone and decent in scrums along the wall but basically useless in the Offenive zone and treats the puck like a grenade. If you're going to be a stay at gome defenseman, you should at least have some luck moving skills

But we're allowed to disagree on players. And I dont want to get into an argument about Hagg because I've made my position clear multiple times and I dont think we will be able to convince the other party of our views so it's kind of pointless. I've stated many times I hope Hagg blossoms and proves me wrong. I just haven't seen it yet and dont think it will happen.
- bulet13

Fair enough..We aren't going to agree on this so no point in turning it into anything else than that.. =)

Yeah cause it's a written rule that every team must have a nickle and dime ham and egger on their 4th line. Just saw the Blues win the Cup with Alex Steen and his 700 NHL games, and 500 career points playing on the 4th line.
- PLindbergh31

Steen had 27 pts last year

He has a cap hit of 5.75 million

If we had a 4th line player with that cap hit you would be ripping the GM a new one. In fact, Laughton had more points and just got less than half that cap hit and you were mad at the contract. But we all know you wont respond to this

Probably because there is more to a player than the last season...
- opeth_pa

True. Labanc signing for a million bucks certainly wasn't about last season.

Steen had 27 pts last year

He has a cap hit of 5.75 million

If we had a 4th line player with that cap hit you would be ripping the GM a new one. In fact, Laughton had more points and just got less than half that cap hit and you were mad at the contract. But we all know you wont respond to this
- bulet13

I'd much rather have a 4th liner with a 4.7 million dollar cap hit compiling 11 points in 89 games over two years.

That’s on par with Elliott 🎯🥳

I'd much rather have a 4th liner with a 4.7 million dollar cap hit compiling 11 points in 89 games over two years.
- PLindbergh31

And which player is that?

And as always, you dont answer the question because you know you've been caught in a web of hypocrisy. You praise at the alter of Steen but if he was on the Flyers you would rip Fletch a new one for the contract.

I'd much rather have a 4th liner with a 4.7 million dollar cap hit compiling 11 points in 89 games over two years.
- PLindbergh31

Even rinaldo would find this stupid, with his high standards et all

With all that has been reported, I completely understand why Hextall put himself on that island. Upper level management including Paul Holmgren were obviously resistant to what Hextall wanted to do. In my opinion, Holmgren and Scott were the problem, not Hextall. The more I hear about it, the more it angers me.
- MJL

Holmgren was on board with the farm system rebuild. It's something I discussed personally with him several times in conversations at Wells Fargo Center. He enjoys the scouting and development sides. But he also believes in being more aggressive at the NHL level. What he wanted was pretty much along the lines of what Chuck Fletcher has been doing so far.

Here's something that hasn't been widely reported: In 2013, Homer himself said to Ed Snider that they'd gone overboard in trading draft picks and that aspect needed to be reeled in. It was also Homer who took the initial steps toward expanding the developmental coaching side. Ron took those things and ran with him -- doing a really good job with them.

Holmgren was NEVER upset about that part of what Hexy was doing on the hockey side. The hockey-specific issues were other things; player development timetables, getting a little more vet help for the nucleus even if it meant taking on a bit more contract term on their acquisitions, and some internal disagreements within hockey ops that I know about off the record (not via Homer) but cannot publish.

I don't see it as a matter of right vs. wrong because there's more than one way of building a winning team. It's a matter of initial compatibility that turned into incompatibility. No one was totally blameless.

And which player is that?

And as always, you dont answer the question because you know you've been caught in a web of hypocrisy. You praise at the alter of Steen but if he was on the Flyers you would rip Fletch a new one for the contract.
- bulet13

Steen was a producing to earn the contract he received. He's 35 now and the Blues have added younger players to play up in the lineup. So Steen moves down and is still useful. Hard concept to grasp isn't it?

How does Provorov have any leverage coming off a 25 point season where he was a -16 and turned the puck over all over the ice?
- PBrendl55

He has plenty of leverage based on his full body of work and the fact that he knows who he is.

What would you offer him?

True. Labanc signing for a million bucks certainly wasn't about last season.
- PBrendl55

No, it was about him wanting to stay where he was.

I personally think they should carry 8 defenseman heading into the season. The stand at 13.4M with 11 forwards and 7 defenseman signed. So they need to sign Provorov and Konecny at the bare minimum. I think they're going to be able to get to the point of having about a 1M or so to spare. That's just guessing though at what those two are going to come in at.
- MJL

The provy camp is the only thing that worries me. I feel that they are trying to cash in for every dollar they can get.
TK should be an easier deal but it may come in a tad higher than we would like
We just have to play the waiting game now

Holmgren was on board with the farm system rebuild. It's something I discussed personally with him several times in conversations at Wells Fargo Center. He enjoys the scouting and development sides. But he also believes in being more aggressive at the NHL level. What he wanted was pretty much along the lines of what Chuck Fletcher has been doing so far.

Here's something that hasn't been widely reported: In 2013, Homer himself said to Ed Snider that they'd gone overboard in trading draft picks and that aspect needed to be reeled in. It was also Homer who took the initial steps toward expanding the developmental coaching side. Ron took those things and ran with him -- doing a really good job with them.

Holmgren was NEVER upset about that part of what Hexy was doing on the hockey side. The hockey-specific issues were other things; player development timetables, getting a little more vet help for the nucleus even if it meant taking on a bit more contract term on their acquisitions, some internal disagreements within hockey ops that I know about off the record (not via Homer) but cannot publish.

I don't see it as a matter of right vs. wrong because there's more than one way of building a winning team. It's a matter of initial compatibility that turned into incompatibility. No one was totally blameless.
- bmeltzer

ok call me

Yeah I agree. Just trying to set up a basecamp
- bulet13

🏔 🏔🏔

Holmgren was on board with the farm system rebuild. It's something I discussed personally with him several times in conversations at Wells Fargo Center. He enjoys the scouting and development sides. But he also believes in being more aggressive at the NHL level. What he wanted was pretty much along the lines of what Chuck Fletcher has been doing so far.

Here's something that hasn't been widely reported: In 2013, Homer himself said to Ed Snider that they'd gone overboard in trading draft picks and that aspect needed to be reeled in. It was also Homer who took the initial steps toward expanding the developmental coaching side. Ron took those things and ran with him -- doing a really good job with them.

Holmgren was NEVER upset about that part of what Hexy was doing on the hockey side. The hockey-specific issues were other things; player development timetables, getting a little more vet help for the nucleus even if it meant taking on a bit more contract term on their acquisitions, and some internal disagreements within hockey ops that I know about off the record (not via Homer) but cannot publish.

I don't see it as a matter of right vs. wrong because there's more than one way of building a winning team. It's a matter of initial compatibility that turned into incompatibility. No one was totally blameless.
- bmeltzer

If Holmgren had problems with those hockey specific issues than he wasn't truly on board with Hextall's plan and vision in my opinion. He also didn't fully take responsibility for how he left the team to Hextall and caved in due to a lack of patience. At that point, Holmgren needed to fully step back and let Hextall do what needed to be done. If Holmgren didn't realize that it took 2-3 years just to turn the team around headed in the right direction then he was out of touch. I agree with what another poster basically said. All of this other stuff is just the excuse they used to go back to the old ways of running the team.

The Flyers were a winning team a lot of years under Holmgren. They were close once but ultimately not good enough. I'm looking for more than that.


I have great admiration, praise and thanks to all that Holmgren has given to the Flyers organization. There was a time when I was fully on board with his methods. Reality is though that it's time for him to step aside. He has lost perspective in my opinion. The only thing scarier is that Scott is basically in charge. He is completely out of touch with the hockey side of things. I like Fletcher and think that he deserves a chance but it is way too soon to give him the keys to the house to the point where he is fully in charge of the hockey side. Scott talks about things are being done collaboratively now. Everyone is in agreement. That's not what you want. You want checks and balances. They need to bring someone in above Fletcher to oversee hockey operations.

He has plenty of leverage based on his full body of work and the fact that he knows who he is.

What would you offer him?
- MBYesMan

No more than 5.5.

No more than 5.5.
- PBrendl55

I would love that. What term?