No D! You just don't get it! You start with Stan is a fool, then go from there. The board narrative, not his actions, dicates Stan's foolishness.
- paulr

Yes, Stan is always correct in his moves. Wasn’t he the guy that traded for David Rundblad? And Kimmo Timonen?

Just like with drafts, we won’t know if anyone won this trade for 2-3 years.

Personally, I don’t like trading the 2nd best defenseman from the last World Juniors, for a guy who’s shown a low compete level.

they need to clean house with the scouting dept. no 1st round pick from 2010-2017 has panned out. only solid pick has been dcat
- arps714

That has nothing to do with trades. If a guy plays somewhere else then he is not a bust. Since 2010, Hawks did well drafting in the 1st round:

Top 10:
jury out on Boqvist and Dach

10–20 range:
Schmaltz = Top 6 NHL player
TT = Top 6 NHL player
McNeill = Bust

20–31 range:
K. Hayes = Top 6 NHL player
Hartman = NHL regular
Jokiharju = jury still out

Out of 5, you got three impact forwards, one tweener and one bust. No one of them was drafted higher than #18. This is not an issue.

Nylander played as ann18yr old his whole first year in the AHL, when he should have been in Sweden or Jrs still. And averaged .42ppg versus men.

The next year, improved to .52ppg

Then .63ppg

Now I haven't watched him play every game or anything, but he improved his production each year when the organization didnt do him any favors and probably put a spotlight on him too soon...and didn't help his game and probably his ego.

It's why if/when Dach gets sent back to the WHL, he's "forgotten about" in the sense no one is asking if/when he will get called up during the season, because at that point - he cant

Where as Big Al, being in the AHL, probably had people there in Rochester and in BUFF consistently pushing for him to be called up too soon, because they needed something/anything to hitch their wagon to

Now, he's 20. The same age ADB started in the NHL. Strome's first full shot was when he came over at 21.

Let's see if his mental maturity caught up to his physical skills. He apparently has the skills/talent and I'm sure guys like Seabrook, Keith, Kane, Toews will show him what it takes if he wants to stay in the NHL.
- PatShart

And this is why Dach or other Junior players to going straight to the NHL is not a wise idea, even when half the posters are clambering for it. Most players are just not ready at 19, 19 or even 21 to play in the NHL without additional work in Junior, College or the AHL.

Just listened to “The-Rink” podcast about the trade. Take it for what it is, but they said that the Hawks were very impressed with what Mitchell has done. He’s apparently added about 10 pounds and has shown that he can handle pressure.

May just provide some insight as to why they were open to moving Joki.
- Chunk

I mentioned it before that Mitchell will be signing with the Hawks in the spring and the Hawks were going to need to find a way to fit him into things if they wanted to keep him around.

Lets all hope that Nylander playing with some high end players like possibly Toews and Kane can help him breakthrough and show the skill that led him to be 8th pick. I read a report that he's a high end puck possession guy which would be welcomed to this team for sure

You are kidding, right??....D-Cat...Strome. Both Top 6 right now. And should be going forward.
- hawk35

Yes - I certainly include them in my top six - I was more referring to the rest of the crew (other than Kane and Toews, maybe Saad).

Yes, Stan is always correct in his moves. Wasn’t he the guy that traded for David Rundblad? And Kimmo Timonen?

Just like with drafts, we won’t know if anyone won this trade for 2-3 years.

Personally, I don’t like trading the 2nd best defenseman from the last World Juniors, for a guy who’s shown a low compete level.
- scottak

You are doing what for a career? Flipping burgers like me or maybe digging ditches? Why aren't you the GM of the Blackhawks if you know more and can do the job better than Bowman? I'm sure McD will hire you based on the fact you make moves better in hindsight than Bowman does in real time.

I have no idea if this was a good move? We will all know, in 3 or 4 years .... even you!

And this is why Dach or other Junior players to going straight to the NHL is not a wise idea, even when half the posters are clambering for it. Most players are just not ready at 19, 19 or even 21 to play in the NHL without additional work in Junior, College or the AHL.
- paulr

In general, you’re probably correct, although every player is different.

I’d think it’s much easier for a NA born & raised guy than someone coming over from Europe.

DeBrincat seems to be doing OK without a stop in Rockford.

Yes, Stan is always correct in his moves. Wasn’t he the guy that traded for David Rundblad? And Kimmo Timonen?

Just like with drafts, we won’t know if anyone won this trade for 2-3 years.

Personally, I don’t like trading the 2nd best defenseman from the last World Juniors, for a guy who’s shown a low compete level.
- scottak

No, he is not always correct. Name me one GM that is? But I would rather have a GM who errors by commission than by omission.

In general, you’re probably correct, although every player is different.

I’d think it’s much easier for a NA born & raised guy than someone coming over from Europe.

DeBrincat seems to be doing OK without a stop in Rockford.
- scottak

Which is why I qualified my statement with "most".

Question for Wiz or anyone, really:

Did DeBrincat’s shot improve since being drafted? He was always putting up video game numbers, but did he have as lethal of a shot, or is that something that has developed over the course of the past couple seasons?

When I see Nylander shoot the puck (and both of his goals this season were one-time lasers past the goalie), I immediately think of how natural of a fit he would be opposite of Kane who set up DeBrincat and Panarin for one-timers countless times.
- TommyHawk

I think "the cat" showed "the shot" for a whole lotta goals in Erie Otters in the OHL.

I think what needed work and was remarkably developed by the kid is the weigh training, so he could handle the pace + hits plus movement away from the freight trains coming.
I don't know if it is the cat's shot or his unique ability to smell an opening, disguise his movement and fill the area for the expected puck and then the shot.
He to me anyway is more of positional scorer who get sit done mostly after the motion, because he IS open.

please not trying to compare either of the next two names against each other OR the cat...but Cole Caulfield and Alex Nylander have similar styles in my opinion because they has their foot speed and hands to help get the room and openings and that is to me anyway a bit different.
All three have excellent sneaky releases in my opinion.

Both coalfield and Nylander need to commit to the same type of conditioning - intense conditioning that equals them out so they aren't out of gas after hard shifts, still can play with pace as the game gets even more competitive.

I’m not going to try to defend Stan too much here because while I have been banging the “Joki will be traded” drum for some time now, I think they definitely sold low, but the fact of the matter is, the upside is undeniable.

However, in a vacuum, Nylander easily becomes the most talented forward in our pipeline outside of Dach. Every young forward in our pool of prospects we’ve been clamoring for months about is bottom-six material. If the front office sees an opportunity for arbitrage (for lack of a better word), then I trust this transaction.

At the end of the day we can pout and moan all we want, but what’s done is done and the organization is clearly high on this kid.

Giving him a chance to succeed at the NHL level in a top-six role to start instantaneously gives him a better shot to succeed than he has ever had rotting away in Buffalo (who hasn’t had a successful prospect develop outside of their two #2 overall picks in Eichel and Reinhart).

Nylander was the 8th overall pick for a reason. The talent is there, and he’s only a year older than Joki. Hopefully the Hawks can maximize it.
- TommyHawk

Fully agree everyone is acting like we traded Erik Karlsson. We traded a suspect I mean prospect. Prior to this trade Kris Versteeg might be the best forward at Rockford.

Personally, I don’t like trading the 2nd best defenseman from the last World Juniors, for a guy who’s shown a low compete level.
- scottak

Was he?

How many minutes did he play?

Where they cut as the games got down to the nitty gritty and were defining who would be the champ?

That has nothing to do with trades. If a guy plays somewhere else then he is not a bust. Since 2010, Hawks did well drafting in the 1st round:

Top 10:
jury out on Boqvist and Dach

10–20 range:
Schmaltz = Top 6 NHL player
TT = Top 6 NHL player
McNeill = Bust

20–31 range:
K. Hayes = Top 6 NHL player
Hartman = NHL regular
Jokiharju = jury still out

Out of 5, you got three impact forwards, one tweener and one bust. No one of them was drafted higher than #18. This is not an issue.
- stonefire

Later round picks have not been terrible either.

Wow, why the anger? I said, just as you did, that it will take a few years to see if either side won. It’s absolutely possible that both have great, or terrible, NHL careers.

I simply stated my opinion. Calm the f*ck down. And please read the entire post before firing off.
- scottak

You're funny

And this is why Dach or other Junior players to going straight to the NHL is not a wise idea, even when half the posters are clambering for it. Most players are just not ready at 19, 19 or even 21 to play in the NHL without additional work in Junior, College or the AHL.
- paulr

Ah the attraction of the shiny new toy who has to be better at 19 or 20 than all of the vets who have gone thru multiple NHL wars.

Ivan Provorov, Evan Bouchard, Jeff Chyrun, Zaitsev, Joki, Mike Reilly etc. to name just a few. All of these guys can really bring it on the blueline and are better than the vets on their teams - until somebody realizes they aren't and the GMs have to do a rethink and acquire veteran Dmen to stabilize their defence to have any chance of a playoff spot in the big boy league.

Just listened to “The-Rink” podcast about the trade. Take it for what it is, but they said that the Hawks were very impressed with what Mitchell has done. He’s apparently added about 10 pounds and has shown that he can handle pressure.

May just provide some insight as to why they were open to moving Joki.
- Chunk

Trading one of the D prospects (Jokiharju or otherwise) should not be a surprise. The club (either Kelley or Bowman) said the intention was never to have all of them play for the Blackhawks. Clearly the Hawks believe in Boqvist, Beaudin, Mitchell, Krys and Vlasic (among others) and the recent acquisitions of de Haan and Maatta support this as they give these prospects time to develop.

The only question is the return for Jokiharju. Nylander didn't work out in Buffalo so that scares off the fans a bit, which is understandable. But I think we need to exercise some patience here. We likely won't know the success of this trade for another couple seasons. But, hopefully like the Strome/Schmaltz deal it works out well for both sides.

Ah the attraction of the shiny new toy who has to be better at 19 or 20 than all of the vets who have gone thru multiple NHL wars.

Ivan Provorov, Evan Bouchard, Jeff Chyrun, Zaitsev, Joki, Mike Reilly etc. to name just a few. All of these guys can really bring it on the blueline and are better than the vets on their teams - until somebody realizes they aren't and the GMs have to do a rethink and acquire veteran Dmen to stabilize their defence to have any chance of a playoff spot in the big boy league.
- RickJ

Man if the collective of this board was Chicago's GM we'd have all 6'5" 18 year olds straight out of the draft replacing veteran players and anyone 6'0" and under. I guess the benefit would be that elusive and oh so valuable "glorious cap space".

Trading one of the D prospects (Jokiharju or otherwise) should not be a surprise. The club (either Kelley or Bowman) said the intention was never to have all of them play for the Blackhawks. Clearly the Hawks believe in Boqvist, Beaudin, Mitchell, Krys and Vlasic (among others) and the recent acquisitions of de Haan and Maatta support this as they give these prospects time to develop.

The only question is the return for Jokiharju. Nylander didn't work out in Buffalo so that scares off the fans a bit, which is understandable. But I think we need to exercise some patience here. We likely won't know the success of this trade for another couple seasons. But, hopefully like the Strome/Schmaltz deal it works out well for both sides.
- DarthKane

Nobody has any patience for being patient with hockey players.

Man if the collective of this board was Chicago's GM we'd have all 6'5" 18 year olds straight out of the draft replacing veteran players and anyone 6'0" and under. I guess the benefit would be that elusive and oh so valuable "glorious cap space".
- paulr

Whatever happened to Viktor Svedburg?

I piped in with some more thoughts on the Hockeybuzz Hotstove this morning:

https://hockeybuzz.com/bl...--Sabres-trade/187/100453

... I will have a more in depth look today at some point as well.

I think Bowman is ok, but I am just lukewarm on his offseason moves.
• Is Maatta healthy?
• Is DeHaan healthy?
• Can Shaw stay healthy?
• Is Lehner mentally healthy and clean? Can he continue to be?
• I like the Quennville for Hayden move.
• Ok with the Carpenter signing.

With Nylander I am just hoping that he is the kind of guy that takes longer to develop. I compare him to Teravainen and Schmaltz. Good hands, speed, vision, but initially they were perimeter players that shied away from contact. Slowly they gained a little confidence and played a slightly more physical game, though no one would classify them as physical. I think they both will be good NHL players (probably 2nd line). If Nylander can play in the top 6 I would be ok with the deal.

I liked Joki and see him as a solid 2nd pairing defender, that may develop into a top pairing guy. With our other young defenders I would be ok with the deal. But I would have preferred to have him stay with the Hawks or Rockford one more year.

Bowman still may have 2 moves left. One is probably AA going for a mid round pick and cap space. After that I could see a significant piece coming to the Hawks for picks.

Saad – Toews - Shaw
ADB – Strome – Kane
Kubalik – Dach – Nylander
Caggiula – Kampf – Carpenter
Sikura

Keith - Gus
Maatta – Murphy
Koekkoek – Seabs
Dahlstrom
DeHaan – IR

Crow
Lehner

I piped in with some more thoughts on the Hockeybuzz Hotstove this morning:

https://hockeybuzz.com/bl...--Sabres-trade/187/100453

... I will have a more in depth look today at some point as well.
- Tyler Cameron

I like & can agree with your perspective, TC. I think it's too soon to say who won, just yet. Give Nylander a chance to prove "disinterest" or not. I'm banking on his excitement, but how that translates has yet to be seen.

I think "the cat" showed "the shot" for a whole lotta goals in Erie Otters in the OHL.

I think what needed work and was remarkably developed by the kid is the weigh training, so he could handle the pace + hits plus movement away from the freight trains coming.
I don't know if it is the cat's shot or his unique ability to smell an opening, disguise his movement and fill the area for the expected puck and then the shot.
He to me anyway is more of positional scorer who get sit done mostly after the motion, because he IS open.

please not trying to compare either of the next two names against each other OR the cat...but Cole Caulfield and Alex Nylander have similar styles in my opinion because they has their foot speed and hands to help get the room and openings and that is to me anyway a bit different.
All three have excellent sneaky releases in my opinion.

Both coalfield and Nylander need to commit to the same type of conditioning - intense conditioning that equals them out so they aren't out of gas after hard shifts, still can play with pace as the game gets even more competitive.
- wiz1901

Yep, great point about finding the soft spots in coverage for ADB to sneak into.

That’s just a testament to his awareness and overall hockey IQ, which is why I also think it’ll be a benefactor to his game in the long run and why he could be playing for a long time.

Hopefully Nylander realizes that he just got his golden ticket, and he works hard the rest of the summer to make a statement that he deserves to be playing at the NHL level. His skill is clearly there. Let’s hope that the willingness to improve both physically and mentally are there too.

And this is why Dach or other Junior players to going straight to the NHL is not a wise idea, even when half the posters are clambering for it. Most players are just not ready at 19, 19 or even 21 to play in the NHL without additional work in Junior, College or the AHL.
- paulr

Damn startight...I am well past my 50th...and still not ready!!!....But, holding out hope!! Give the kids time to grow.

I think I understand where Ric was going...

Drouin was drafted to be the dominant self contained star when drafted and the fact Stevie Y recognized he wasn't, he went out and filled an organizational need in Sergachev, who after a bang bag start had the long seasons take a toll on his overall play and lost time in strategic times to the big stiff, Eric Cernak, who shots from the other hand, but nonetheless was TRUSTED over in key situations.

I think that (here I go speaking for someone else!) Ric was saying they both have yet to be huge impact NHL players who have reached untouchable stats or reached their goals to be really TOP NHLErs...
- wiz1901

I got what he meant - I disagreed with his assessment on the players being good for their teams. I don't mind the comparison in general, though I think it's kind of weak when you look at it beyond two players their former orgs had obvs soured on.