I don't claim to have inside information. I just mean, he is awful. I watch him and can see it with the naked eye. If you take away all the upside and potential of being better, we have been watching a really bad defenseman the last few years. And if the eye test says that, the stats say he is even worse.

We all know it. That's why everyone in Buffalo wants him gone (most everyone). I have a hard time believing GM's don't know it. Their players target him when he is on the ice to force bade turnovers. They have to all know he sucks. And even if a few are dumb enough to want him, they know the other twenty something GM's don't. So they aren't going to offer something good.

Like, in what world is the defenseman who leads the league in Minus, can't pass out of his own end, and has terrible possession numbers going to get you a 50 point forward?
- matty12345

Like I said , you couldn't be more wrong.

I think it comes down to johansson or vesey making the flip
- homiedclown

Sheary has actually done it fairly recently,
and with success
That’s why he makes the most sense to me
But I’m sure they’ll all get looks on that side

Could just come down to who says they’re most comfortable over there

I don't claim to have inside information. I just mean, he is awful. I watch him and can see it with the naked eye. If you take away all the upside and potential of being better, we have been watching a really bad defenseman the last few years. And if the eye test says that, the stats say he is even worse.

We all know it. That's why everyone in Buffalo wants him gone (most everyone). I have a hard time believing GM's don't know it. Their players target him when he is on the ice to force bade turnovers. They have to all know he sucks. And even if a few are dumb enough to want him, they know the other twenty something GM's don't. So they aren't going to offer something good.

Like, in what world is the defenseman who leads the league in Minus, can't pass out of his own end, and has terrible possession numbers going to get you a 50 point forward?
- matty12345

Whether it's because he has absolutely no trade value, or Botterill believes he is the best defenseman since Bobby Orr, the reality is, if he was going to be traded, it would have happened by now.

Like I said , you couldn't be more wrong.
- SABRES 89

I guess we will see when the season starts. If he is still on the team, the offers weren't great. If he is gone...well, we will see what the haul is.

I'm just saying don't crucify Botts if the return is way worse than we all hoped.

Sheary has actually done it fairly recently,
and with success
That’s why he makes the most sense to me
But I’m sure they’ll all get looks on that side

Could just come down to who says they’re most comfortable over there
- jdfitz77

Reinhart
Sheary
Slokposo

One more guy is gonna have to make the switch unless Nylander shows up with his big boy pants

but
but
but
but
but
but
but


so and so said


and so and so said


and
and
and
- homiedclown

That's fair.

If the statement about finding a coach to improve, or work with Risto is true, then I am all for the team executing that.

I'm just curious what additional plans Botterill has to fill some of the needs of the team when Risto or Sam seem like the best(?) assets to move.

Reinhart
Sheary
Slokposo

One more guy is gonna have to make the switch unless Nylander shows up with his big boy pants
- jcragcrumple

Tage is a possibility.

That's fair.

If the statement about finding a coach to improve, or work with Risto is true, then I am all for the team executing that.

I'm just curious what additional plans Botterill has to fill some of the needs of the team when Risto or Sam seem like the best(?) assets to move.
- thatsapickle

expect risto, dahlin, miller, montour and mccabe to all be around until the next waive of kids can play top 4 minutes

so at least 2 years IMO as I see borgen being up here next fall

expect risto, dahlin, miller, montour and mccabe to all be around until the next waive of kids can play top 4 minutes

so at least 2 years IMO as I see borgen being up here next fall
- homiedclown

If Pilut isn't playing by January there will be riots. lol

Sheary has actually done it fairly recently,
and with success
That’s why he makes the most sense to me
But I’m sure they’ll all get looks on that side

Could just come down to who says they’re most comfortable over there
- jdfitz77

I know you're convinced of this, but you should really take a closer look at just how little he's done it and low little he's produced there.

I don't claim to have inside information. I just mean, he is awful. I watch him and can see it with the naked eye. If you take away all the upside and potential of being better, we have been watching a really bad defenseman the last few years. And if the eye test says that, the stats say he is even worse.

We all know it. That's why everyone in Buffalo wants him gone (most everyone). I have a hard time believing GM's don't know it. Their players target him when he is on the ice to force bade turnovers. They have to all know he sucks. And even if a few are dumb enough to want him, they know the other twenty something GM's don't. So they aren't going to offer something good.

Like, in what world is the defenseman who leads the league in Minus, can't pass out of his own end, and has terrible possession numbers going to get you a 50 point forward?
- matty12345

40+ point defenseman the last 3 seasons.

Does every defenseman have to be like Mike Ramsey and strictly play defense?

Risto is a great point producer

40+ point defenseman the last 3 seasons.

Does every defenseman have to be like Mike Ramsey and strictly play defense?

Risto is a great point producer
- Boss34

Points, not offense. There is a huge difference. He has a big shot. He gets first powerplay time and 25 minutes a night. Use him for 19-20 minutes and put him on a second unit PP, which is what most teams will do, and he probably has 25-30 points. He can't generate 5v5 offense and he can't break out of his own zone.

Craig Ramsay won the Selke, heard about how many games he played in a row incessantly back in the day, was compared to Bob Gainey, has MVP of the Development Camp named after him. I think he was and is appreciated.
- GilPerreault11

You are correct, but not as appreciated as he should be here. Both him and Luce were excellent penalty killers.

Points, not offense. There is a huge difference. He has a big shot. He gets first powerplay time and 25 minutes a night. Use him for 19-20 minutes and put him on a second unit PP, which is what most teams will do, and he probably has 25-30 points. He can't generate 5v5 offense and he can't break out of his own zone.
- matty12345

If you played risto on a good team with real talent and coaching the last few years, his numbers would be even better.

We have basically been trying to lose on purpose most of his tenure as a sabre.

Points and offense can not be a huge difference
I get that creating offense and picking up points on the pp are different, but you can only measure the facts not its and buts.

3 straight 40 point seasons on terrible teams

Points, not offense. There is a huge difference. He has a big shot. He gets first powerplay time and 25 minutes a night. Use him for 19-20 minutes and put him on a second unit PP, which is what most teams will do, and he probably has 25-30 points. He can't generate 5v5 offense and he can't break out of his own zone.
- matty12345

Any team acquiring him is going to put him on the first PP. Otherwise there's no point in trading for him.

People like to say that he's terrible 5-on-5, and mediocre on the PP, but at the same time, he has a ton of PP points. A lot of secondary assists, yes, but that's because the passing flows through him at the point. He is actually very good at the PP

I don't claim to have inside information. I just mean, he is awful. I watch him and can see it with the naked eye. If you take away all the upside and potential of being better, we have been watching a really bad defenseman the last few years. And if the eye test says that, the stats say he is even worse.

We all know it. That's why everyone in Buffalo wants him gone (most everyone). I have a hard time believing GM's don't know it. Their players target him when he is on the ice to force bade turnovers. They have to all know he sucks. And even if a few are dumb enough to want him, they know the other twenty something GM's don't. So they aren't going to offer something good.

Like, in what world is the defenseman who leads the league in Minus, can't pass out of his own end, and has terrible possession numbers going to get you a 50 point forward?
- matty12345

But
But
But
But

July 9th or something

If you played risto on a good team with real talent and coaching the last few years, his numbers would be even better.

We have basically been trying to lose on purpose most of his tenure as a sabre.

Points and offense can not be a huge difference
I get that creating offense and picking up points on the pp are different, but you can only measure the facts not its and buts.

3 straight 40 point seasons on terrible teams
- Boss34

The facts: Risto was on the ice for 59 sabres even strength goals last year. For comparison, Zach Bogosian, hardly an offensive machine, was on ice for 53 Sabres goals but in over 500 less minutes. That means you are way more likely to score with Bogosian on the ice than Risto. The much hated Scandella? 36 sabres goals in only 63 games. Again, you score more with freaking Scandella on the ice than Risto.

Out of curiosity, Dahlin? a whopping 67 Sabres goals, again in way less ice time

I guess we will see when the season starts. If he is still on the team, the offers weren't great. If he is gone...well, we will see what the haul is.

I'm just saying don't crucify Botts if the return is way worse than we all hoped.
- matty12345

Careful.
I said this a week ago exactly and was crucified as being a whiner and a bad fan.

40+ point defenseman the last 3 seasons.

Does every defenseman have to be like Mike Ramsey and strictly play defense?

Risto is a great point producer
- Boss34

No, absolutely not, I agree.
Can they just start with one (1) and give that a look though.
They have flipped from a slow D, to a bunch of guys who skate like the wind, can make an outlet pass ... all GREAT attributes ... and none of which plays a solid Defensively sound game. Nit a one so far.

40+ point defenseman the last 3 seasons.

Does every defenseman have to be like Mike Ramsey and strictly play defense?

Risto is a great point producer
- Boss34

*on the PP.

*which he's being demoted from

He scored 26 points EV. He is what we all know he is. He's fantastic on the PP, and pretty weak 5v5. When Dahlin replaces him full time, his value will fall. OR. He will be utilized correctly and balance his lack of pp points for more EV points. This will fully depend on his linemates, deployment, and minutes.

The facts: Risto was on the ice for 59 sabres even strength goals last year. For comparison, Zach Bogosian, hardly an offensive machine, was on ice for 53 Sabres goals but in over 500 less minutes. That means you are way more likely to score with Bogosian on the ice than Risto. The much hated Scandella? 36 sabres goals in only 63 games. Again, you score more with freaking Scandella on the ice than Risto.

Out of curiosity, Dahlin? a whopping 67 Sabres goals, again in way less ice time
- matty12345

But he is big and has a chiseled body. He must be solid defensively.

Points, not offense. There is a huge difference. He has a big shot. He gets first powerplay time and 25 minutes a night. Use him for 19-20 minutes and put him on a second unit PP, which is what most teams will do, and he probably has 25-30 points. He can't generate 5v5 offense and he can't break out of his own zone.
- matty12345

Sorry for copying your post.

Any team acquiring him is going to put him on the first PP. Otherwise there's no point in trading for him.

People like to say that he's terrible 5-on-5, and mediocre on the PP, but at the same time, he has a ton of PP points. A lot of secondary assists, yes, but that's because the passing flows through him at the point. He is actually very good at the PP
- jcragcrumple

*on the PP.

*which he's being demoted from

He scored 26 points EV. He is what we all know he is. He's fantastic on the PP, and pretty weak 5v5. When Dahlin replaces him full time, his value will fall. OR. He will be utilized correctly and balance his lack of pp points for more EV points. This will fully depend on his linemates, deployment, and minutes.
- TheSabresTaco

This is Deja Vu all over again.
You too will be called a hater.

Just bow, and repeat,
Risto with 42 pts and -43 is a defensive machine.

The facts: Risto was on the ice for 59 sabres even strength goals last year. For comparison, Zach Bogosian, hardly an offensive machine, was on ice for 53 Sabres goals but in over 500 less minutes. That means you are way more likely to score with Bogosian on the ice than Risto. The much hated Scandella? 36 sabres goals in only 63 games. Again, you score more with freaking Scandella on the ice than Risto.

Out of curiosity, Dahlin? a whopping 67 Sabres goals, again in way less ice time
- matty12345

This does not mean that. The most likely case is Bogosian was on the ice with Skinner and Eichel.

Most "advanced" stats are not individual indicators, they are a better indication for how well the team is playing.

Hockey is not a great sport to use advanced stats for since it is a free flowing sport. It is much harder to have direct comparisons. Football and baseball are great for advanced stats since you can literally much up play by play.