Even though it was TIOPS I really hope we have a “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” situation with JJ.

I reserved myself to the fact he’s not getting moved, but now I’m preparing for getting my hopes crushed lol

1. From the articles already posted, a 2nd rounder and good prospect will get you Gusev, everyone is lowballing Vegas, so you only have to give up so much.

2. Trading Rust for the space is a no brainer. JJ and Gudbranson too.

3. That article basically said you can expect 50 points minimum from Gusev and if he gets powerplay time, more (given the opening on the half wall with Phil gone, bingo)

So the hesitation is strange and the "bare cupboards" don't mean much either. If Gusev produces up to 60+ points with Malkin at a PPG, you are extending your cup window a few more seasons. That is the end game here right? Pull that trigger and lets roll.
- burgh4life87

We dont have a 2nd rounder. So its likely a 1st or one of our top prospects (Hallander, Addison, Poulin).

Again, I'm not saying I'm against it, in fact I'm more for it than I am against it. Its just that most people seem to think he will be a PPG player or the next Panarin. The pens are a win now team that can't afford experiments and while the chances of success are pretty high, he's never played in North America. If the expectation is 50 points, then just go sign Dzingel or Ferland(for example) and save all the other assets.

To me you have to be convinced he is a 70+ point player in the NHL to trade away prime assets and proven NHL commodities.

Even though it was TIOPS I really hope we have a “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” situation with JJ.

I reserved myself to the fact he’s not getting moved, but now I’m preparing for getting my hopes crushed lol
- Rinosaur

We won’t trade Johnson. We won’t get Gusev. We’ll trade Rust for a 4th round pick and a defensive prospect that projects as a bottom pairing blue liner if he hits his ceiling.

There. Expectations tempered.

We dont have a 2nd rounder. So its likely a 1st or one of our top prospects (Hallander, Addison, Poulin).

Again, I'm not saying I'm against it, in fact I'm more for it than I am against it. Its just that most people seem to think he will be a PPG player or the next Panarin. The pens are a win now team that can't afford experiments and while the chances of success are pretty high, he's never played in North America. If the expectation is 50 points, then just go sign Dzingel or Ferland(for example) and save all the other assets.

To me you have to be convinced he is a 70+ point player in the NHL to trade away prime assets and proven NHL commodities.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I won’t pretend I know much about Dzingel’s or Ferland’s game but it makes sense. Not so much for Ferland whom I think is a 3rd liner.

One thing people are failing to mention is Gusev’s style of play and if he plays a good two way game. I’m pretty sure Geno could give management an assessment.

After reading the article, that's what they're being offered, but they're holding out for a better asset like a top prospect. I'd send the first before our best prospects if possible just because they're closer to NHL level, though I'd send Poulin.
- Tojo.

I’d pass if we had to give up Poulin + 1st RP.

Poulin, Légaré, Hållander, Björkvist, Bellerive, Drozg, Almeida will be nice options moving forward.

Gusev would be cool but if the Pens were intent on getting him, they wouldn't have signed Tanev to that contract.

The only way it works at this point is if Ottawa steps in to facilitate.

JJ, Rust and a 1st to Ottawa.
Ottawa sends a 2nd to Vegas.
Gusev to Pittsburgh.

Ryan Wilson: The power play without Phil Kessel
The power play without Phil Kessel
- Ryan_Wilson

as long as Jim Rutherford is still in charge in Pittsburgh i'd say it's a 7-way tie for first

why would we give up a 1st round pick (or top prospect) and potentially more...plus clear out multiple useful players to create cap room (rust, bjug, etc), and then give a $4M contract on a middle 6 F.

I mean I'm not fully opposed as Im intrigued by the upside.. but if all we are "guarenteed" is a middle six forward from an already stacked forward group...thats still a risky move for a win now team with already bare cupboards.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Others have already mentioned middle six as a basement, so chances are he isn't a total bust. You're giving up the asset for the boom potential, if you could guarantee he's the next Panarin, the cost is much higher. So it is a calculated risk, not a slam dunk, but the math works out for me.

Here's what I'll say about the cupboard being bare: 1) It's less bare after adding Poulin, Joseph, and Legare. 2 of those guys were drafted in the 1st round, prior to them we had zero prospects who had.

2) Getting Gusev would require the Pens to move out a similar salary like Rust or Galchenyuk where you can get back an asset close to what you just paid for Gusev, so you don't have to pillage the farm system to do this.

We dont have a 2nd rounder. So its likely a 1st or one of our top prospects (Hallander, Addison, Poulin).

Again, I'm not saying I'm against it, in fact I'm more for it than I am against it. Its just that most people seem to think he will be a PPG player or the next Panarin. The pens are a win now team that can't afford experiments and while the chances of success are pretty high, he's never played in North America. If the expectation is 50 points, then just go sign Dzingel or Ferland(for example) and save all the other assets.

To me you have to be convinced he is a 70+ point player in the NHL to trade away prime assets and proven NHL commodities.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

But as we currently stand we have to move those assets anyway. We will not be cap compliant and in order to do so we have to move at least another 2+ million if not more.

I’d pass if we had to give up Poulin + 1st RP.

Poulin, Légaré, Hållander, Björkvist, Bellerive, Drozg, Almeida will be nice options moving forward.
- Barnaby36

I was saying one or the other, not both. The depth you described, not to mention Miletic and Lafferty, means they can do this (less depth at D).

And I just said earlier, they'd have to turn around and trade Rust or Galchenyuk, so they can get an asset right back.

Well, you found a way to make your opinion wrong. They arent asking for a top prospect
- Guile

I never said they were. Someone (jboyd, I think) last week was saying the Pens should offer their 1st and either Addison or Hallander (can't remember which) for his rights. I would not do that.

We won’t trade Johnson. We won’t get Gusev. We’ll trade Rust for a 4th round pick and a defensive prospect that projects as a bottom pairing blue liner if he hits his ceiling.

There. Expectations tempered.
- Victoro311

Thanks for bringing me back to earth lol

Lmao you love your illogical comparisons.
- Feds91Stammer

When he came over, Jiri Dopita was called "the best player not in the NHL." After he played in the NHL, it became clear why he hadn't done so before.

Yeah, it's possible Gusev comes over to NA and scores 8 bazillion points and is a star. I just don't think it's a given like some people do.

I never said they were. Someone (jboyd, I think) last week was saying the Pens should offer their 1st and either Addison or Hallander (can't remember which) for his rights. I would not do that.
- jmatchett383

Either of em. Doesn’t matter to me.

Either of em. Doesn’t matter to me.
- j.boyd919

I just don't think that's a fair price to pay for a guy who has yet to play 1 minute of pro North American hockey, not even considering you'd have to make a cap dump just to fit his reported contract demands.

Gusev would be cool but if the Pens were intent on getting him, they wouldn't have signed Tanev to that contract.

The only way it works at this point is if Ottawa steps in to facilitate.

JJ, Rust and a 1st to Ottawa.
Ottawa sends a 2nd to Vegas.
Gusev to Pittsburgh.
- MacPatty

Why would Vegas do that? They would get only a 2nd. They allegedly already have a 2nd and low/mid prospect offers and are holding out for better.

While I would love that due to dumping JJ and getting Rust cap spacd... that trade is just silly for Vegas' standpoint.

I just don't think that's a fair price to pay for a guy who has yet to play 1 minute of pro North American hockey, not even considering you'd have to make a cap dump just to fit his reported contract demands.
- jmatchett383

Sure, it’s a risk but it’s a risk I’m willing to take because I don’t care about those prospects and don’t expect them to make an impact before the window of Geno/Sid get smaller and less likely to make a deep run.

I’d prefer the risk of loading up the forwards with Gusev and shipping out JJ or Gudbranson as cap dumps, which would also be addition by subtraction. Moving JJ/Guddy+1st+Prospect for Gusev makes the team better for the next 2-3 years and that’s what I’m all for.

Why would Vegas do that? They would get only a 2nd. They allegedly already have a 2nd and low/mid prospect offers and are holding out for better.

While I would love that due to dumping JJ and getting Rust cap spacd... that trade is just silly for Vegas' standpoint.
- Guile

Exactly

Just trade Rust for an asset, package that asset with JJ to move him

Trade the 1st straight up for Gusev

But as we currently stand we have to move those assets anyway. We will not be cap compliant and in order to do so we have to move at least another 2+ million if not more.
- burgh4life87

So we need to move $6-7M to fit in Gusev? ($2M to be cap compliant + $4M for Gusev + a little buffer)

I'm okay to move Rust and JJ ...but if we cant move JJ how do we clear the space?

Rust and Gudbranson?
I'm not super interested in moving Bjugstad...

To try to move two players to clear space without a guarantee of getting Gusev is tricky business. I guess if we couldnt land Gusev, we could fall back and use the cap space to sign someone like Ferland/Dzingel or a cheap D-man like Del Zotto or Hutton for the 3rd pair.

I'm just looking for a realistic path to make this all happen. Teams with cap space are in an easy position to pull this off. Shero is probably already close to making it happen haha.

Sure, it’s a risk but it’s a risk I’m willing to take because I don’t care about those prospects and don’t expect them to make an impact before the window of Geno/Sid get smaller and less likely to make a deep run.

I’d prefer the risk of loading up the forwards with Gusev and shipping out JJ or Gudbranson as cap dumps, which would also be addition by subtraction. Moving JJ/Guddy+1st+Prospect for Gusev makes the team better for the next 2-3 years and that’s what I’m all for.
- j.boyd919

I'm with you here...and if he busts he's only signed for 2 years. That kid isnt gonna want more than 2 years because after these 2 years he could be in line for a major payday. Just feel like there major potential for something great there.

Taking away from Gusev for just a moment, is anyone else really shocked Gardiner has not signed yet? Very good offensive top 4 defender just kind of hanging around. Obviously not something we currently need, but still rather surprising to me.

When he came over, Jiri Dopita was called "the best player not in the NHL." After he played in the NHL, it became clear why he hadn't done so before.

Yeah, it's possible Gusev comes over to NA and scores 8 bazillion points and is a star. I just don't think it's a given like some people do.
- jmatchett383

Nobody is saying it’s a given. Stop being a jabroni. Dopita was not on Gusevs level either.

Taking away from Gusev for just a moment, is anyone else really shocked Gardiner has not signed yet? Very good offensive top 4 defender just kind of hanging around. Obviously not something we currently need, but still rather surprising to me.
- burgh4life87

Teams are apparently concerned with his back issues.

So we need to move $6-7M to fit in Gusev? ($2M to be cap compliant + $4M for Gusev + a little buffer)

I'm okay to move Rust and JJ ...but if we cant move JJ how do we clear the space?

Rust and Gudbranson?
I'm not super interested in moving Bjugstad...

To try to move two players to clear space without a guarantee of getting Gusev is tricky business. I guess if we couldnt land Gusev, we could fall back and use the cap space to sign someone like Ferland/Dzingel or a cheap D-man like Del Zotto or Hutton for the 3rd pair.

I'm just looking for a realistic path to make this all happen. Teams with cap space are in an easy position to pull this off. Shero is probably already close to making it happen haha.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

My thoughts exactly. The Avs, the Islanders, they all probably have offers on the table.

Also, I have zero interest in moving Bjugstad as well. I really like his game.

Taking away from Gusev for just a moment, is anyone else really shocked Gardiner has not signed yet? Very good offensive top 4 defender just kind of hanging around. Obviously not something we currently need, but still rather surprising to me.
- burgh4life87

Thought I heard someplace his camp was looking at 7.5+ mil and 6+years and teams want either less term or a bit lower hit.

I'm sure it won't be long till he signs and we all female dog about how JR could have got him.