I just feel if the leafs were willing or be able to stay under the cap a deal would be done already.
- maximumcarnage

If he’s looking for three years as reported he’s looking for more salary up front. I’m assuming Dubas is looking for a way to dump salary to sign him. Would be pretty funny if they were still stuck with that 2.5 million and Martin right now😉

Couldn't they trade those picks for someone that can produce now?
- walshyleafsfan

Of course but you have to find that match. A player that you actually want and a team(obvious not competitive team)willing to give said players up for those picks. Ultimately I think the Leafs sign himto a three or four year deal after Dubas dumps some more salary so he has some breathing room at the deadline.

Bet that's what you tell all the girls
- Upstate_isles

I would like to remind you this is still a gender neutral thread even though we haven’t seen chiefs for a few days.

I would like to remind you this is still a gender neutral thread even though we haven’t seen chiefs for a few days.
- Cptmjl

I think this is longer than my article- I'm sincerely impressed by the effort to write this.

I'd argue the Isles aren't necessarily an immediate contender even with Marner. Obviously that's a huge addition but one player isn't going to propel them into Cup contention.

I also don't think he's upset whatsoever by the Tavares signing. It's been reported that he was very heavily involved in recruiting Tavares, being a huge part of the Leafs presentation video.

Thanks for reading!
- Ben Shelley

I believe you are right about not being a contender yet but no one thought St. Louis was either. You need to come together at the right time

Like the Hawks fan, I disagree. They're not giving every pick they have away for the next 4 years... yes, they're 1sts but, as said, they don't pan out to be a Marner and if they do, it wouldn't be for several years at the range they're picking.
Problem with it being the islanders is they would not only need to move bodies like a Leddy this year but, the following season they would HAVE to move a hard salary like Boychuk and or Ladd and that's not simple down 4 1sts.

Agree with the logic.

However, want to point out the following:-

- Leafs did not fire Lou. Shanahan had to make promoter Dubas or Hunter or risk losing both. Lou was promoted but decided that he still wanted to be GM and the opportunity to go back to NY where he spent 30+ years of his career was too good to pass up.

- leafs did not offer sheet Tavares. Tavares met with 5 teams. Lou would have had intimate knowledge of Leafs plans to bid for Tavares during his time as Leafs GM. If he was upset at Toronto then logically he should be seeking revenge by trying to sign the unsigned RFAs on those other 4 teams too.

- Tavares chose to leave as a UFA. Isles had a full year to sign him and knew the risks of not trading him when they didn’t get a firm answer by the trade deadline. You don’t see Raptors fans fuming after Kawhi Leonard left. Disappointed yes, but Raps fans get the business and logic of it. Doesn’t see like Isles fans or media do

So you want to give away 4 first round picks for a "core piece" who probably leaves the core after 3 years? He'd be gone and you STILL wouldn't have that first round pick back. In other words, in that 4th year, the Isles could easily be a lottery team, so the pick they traded away wouldn't be in the 20s.
- JohnScammo

I clearly said it needs to be long term. No one is going to give up more picks than the the term of the contract. Isles can also make a side deal with Toronto to get some of those picks back. Tampa did the same thing with Philly

Agree with the logic.

However, want to point out the following:-

- Leafs did not fire Lou. Shanahan had to make promoter Dubas or Hunter or risk losing both. Lou was promoted but decided that he still wanted to be GM and the opportunity to go back to NY where he spent 30+ years of his career was too good to pass up.

- leafs did not offer sheet Tavares. Tavares met with 5 teams. Lou would have had intimate knowledge of Leafs plans to bid for Tavares during his time as Leafs GM. If he was upset at Toronto then logically he should be seeking revenge by trying to sign the unsigned RFAs on those other 4 teams too.

- Tavares chose to leave as a UFA. Isles had a full year to sign him and knew the risks of not trading him when they didn’t get a firm answer by the trade deadline. You don’t see Raptors fans fuming after Kawhi Leonard left. Disappointed yes, but Raps fans get the business and logic of it. Doesn’t see like Isles fans or media do
- Turnitaround

What difference does it make? Signing an offersheet is essentially just like leaving via FA. The only difference is that he cant freely choose the teams. Its only the ones who want to put in the offersheet. If he signs one with the Isles, he is CHOOSING to leave Toronto

Ben Shelley: Islanders shouldn't use an offer sheet
- Ben Shelley

You guys can't seriously be talking marner??? The kid is already more than you have in cap space, not to mention Barzal to resign. Looking at the age of all your long term contracts, I see no point in giving up 4 1st round picks. That is your only hope going forward.

Islanders are are at cross roads and the next turn they make will be significant. They have Belmont Park about to get the environmental state development approval tomorrow and that also plays a big part of this. In Lou We Trust 😉
- Sign guy

Lou hasn’t done a damn thing in two summers. He must like Garth Snow’s very average roster. Keep trusting the old senile bat. And the Islanders absolutely should offer sheet someone. This is a great time to align Barzal with a superstar talent of the same age and let them take this team to the next level

I go back and forth on offer sheets. Would you trade a 1st for Marner? Yes absolutely. Would you trade 2 firsts a second and a 3rd? Absolutely.

Four firsts is pretty crazy though. Thing is: Going from 2 firsts a second and a third that was a no brainer you only upgrade the second to a first and the 3rd to a first. Honestly, it isn’t much more.

Does 2 firsts a player and a prospect get it done?

2 firsts
Leddy
Bellows

I go back and forth on offer sheets. Would you trade a 1st for Marner? Yes absolutely. Would you trade 2 firsts a second and a 3rd? Absolutely.

Four firsts is pretty crazy though. Thing is: Going from 2 firsts a second and a third that was a no brainer you only upgrade the second to a first and the 3rd to a first. Honestly, it isn’t much more.
- datswho

It's the 4 1st and the high cap (real dollars) for a short-term that's the killer: I don't know how many teams could actually pull that off and not regret it.

This isn't McDavid, a player you can build your team around; this is a high-end winger.

I am also not sure I understand the "revenge" narrative. I think Lou was not fired, they just did not extend him. He also has a good relationship with Dubas who he mentored in Toronto.

Tavares was a UFA. He chose to go home. This is a far different scenario from an offersheet to an RFA.

Also, to offersheet Marner, the NYI would need to clear cap space, and probably forgo their other RFA.

Then what do they do next year when Barzal is an RFA. If it isn't the Leafs poaching him, it will be someone else.

Hey, if it is a tool a GM wants to use, I am all for it. When you go down that road, don't be upset when someone does it to you.

Does 2 firsts a player and a prospect get it done?

2 firsts
Leddy
Bellows
- Isles_KoolAid

I seriously doubt it.

What difference does it make? Signing an offersheet is essentially just like leaving via FA. The only difference is that he cant freely choose the teams. Its only the ones who want to put in the offersheet. If he signs one with the Isles, he is CHOOSING to leave Toronto
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Oh boy
One day, try to think without the Leafs saltiness, and then post about something.

Ben thanks for the write up .. I strongly disagree with your take on the Isles but I do appreciate the work.

The whole idea that the Isles over achieved last year is where a lot of us on these boards disagree. The Islanders roster last year had 9 first round picks on it, 7 guy who have scored over 20 goals in a season (8 if you include Cheryll Ladd). They have and have had a ton of talent on this team for years. What they did not have is legitimate coaching. Last year was the first time these talented kids had a coach who actually implemented a system. They did not "over-achieve" they finally started to play to their potential. ... so that said..

They were 5th in the NHL last year in points. They were good enough to sweep the penguins in the first round. How much better will our young d-men be within Trotz system with a year under their belt? How much better will young guys like Bouv, Barzal, and MDC be this year? How much better would that team be with a player of Marner's ability on the top line? You don't think that makes them a legitimate contender next year? The team that won the jennings trophy and had 5th bets points total in the league with the worst power play I have seen in years will not be a cup contender?

They should offer sheet Marner. If nothing else it crushes Toronto's cap situation even more and you can then offer sheet Point.

I am also not sure I understand the "revenge" narrative. I think Lou was not fired, they just did not extend him. He also has a good relationship with Dubas who he mentored in Toronto.

Tavares was a UFA. He chose to go home. This is a far different scenario from an offersheet to an RFA.

Also, to offersheet Marner, the NYI would need to clear cap space, and probably forgo their other RFA.

Then what do they do next year when Barzal is an RFA. If it isn't the Leafs poaching him, it will be someone else.

Hey, if it is a tool a GM wants to use, I am all for it. When you go down that road, don't be upset when someone does it to you.
- Aetherial

Not sure how you can't see the "revenge factor".. they moved on from Lou and then signed the team he went to Captain a month later. That isn't very hard to figure out. My 9 year old talked about it when the offer sheet rumors were out there last week. Maybe sit down with a pen and paper and write it down for yourself.

The Leafs will not be RFAing anyone with those contracts. You have all but 1 D-man as a UFA next year. If you think anyone would hesitate RFA ing Barzal anyway you are nuts.

Tavares went to where he got the most money via Tax Breaks in Canada on signing bonuses. He did so after preaching for years that he was not leaving.

https://www.forbes.com/si...ew-contract/#58cf510f1ab7

It's the 4 1st and the high cap (real dollars) for a short-term that's the killer: I don't know how many teams could actually pull that off and not regret it.

This isn't McDavid, a player you can build your team around; this is a high-end winger.
- gravyface

lets look at recent Isles first rounders that some were drafted really high.. Strome, MDC, Reinhardt, Nino, Bellows, Ho Sang, etc. .... I would be ok losing 4 first round picks for Marner.

Oh boy
One day, try to think without the Leafs saltiness, and then post about something.
- Aetherial

I thought that post was pretty spot on. Not sure where the saltiness is?

It's the 4 1st and the high cap (real dollars) for a short-term that's the killer: I don't know how many teams could actually pull that off and not regret it.

This isn't McDavid, a player you can build your team around; this is a high-end winger.
- gravyface

My guess is that is what is holding this up... Lou is not going to do this for 3 or 4 years. If he can sing him for 7 years at 12.5 it going to happen.... 4.. not so much.

My guess is that is what is holding this up... Lou is not going to do this for 3 or 4 years. If he can sing him for 7 years at 12.5 it going to happen.... 4.. not so much.
- niteislander

I doubt very much Lameriello is discussing an offer sheet with Marner and his agent negotiating term. Marner will most likely be under contract with the Leafs by the end of this week. Nothing is being “held up” imo. Just Dubas and his agent trying to iron out a contract.

Oh boy
One day, try to think without the Leafs saltiness, and then post about something.
- Aetherial

no one thinks about the leafs with Saltiness. You have to actually be successful to have people really care. The only saltiness is in reply to your thousands of dopey trolls who show up every summer and then slowly fade away during the season. .. then disappear completely in the playoffs.

I doubt very much Lameriello is discussing an offer sheet with Marner and his agent negotiating term. Marner will most likely be under contract with the Leafs by the end of this week. Nothing is being “held up” imo. Just Dubas and his agent trying to iron out a contract.
- Cptmjl

Whole lotta smoke if there is no fire. Maybe Marner's agent is using Lou to get more $$ but My guess is Lou has definitely made some kind of offer to him.. when guys like Staple, Dregger, and Mackenzie talking about it.. something is there.