As far as icing his best roster at the beginning of the playoffs. Let's remember Maatta was out for a substantial amount of time and returned right before the the playoffs started. He was f'n brutal in the first game and didn't remotely look up to speed. Injuries largely dictated Sullivan's defensive deployments all season.....which is why JJ got so much time in the top 4D.

If you ask me, Sullivan's biggest mistake was asking his misfit LD to play on the right side all season while Ruhwedel collected dust. Is Ruh great....no. Is he better than Oleksiak, Riikki and JJ playing RD?.....absofukinglutely.
- madmike71

I still think Ruhwedel has more to offer. I think he’ll grow a bit if given the opportunity. He looked good in a limited showing last year. Plus he has the same birthday as Vic

I like Sullivan and I certainly appreciate his contributions to the cup teams. I don't think he's been great the last two seasons. Running Cole out of town was dumb. I somewhat understand wanting Kessel moved, but moving Cole because he was cordial with the media is one of the dumber things I've ever heard in sports.

As far as the contract goes... The length is meaningless. He's guaranteed this full season. If the team is sucking next year, they'll fire him and someone else will hire him almost immediately, so the Penguins won't be on the hook for his contract for very long.
- madmike71

Agreed, the reason for trading Cole was stupid and the result was catastrophic, after the trade I thought losing him was most likely reason why we wouldn't be three peatin it. He is exactly the type of player they were missing. Let's also not forget Reaves ;-)

Because the Pens were badly outscored when he was on the ice? Because he got to pad his stats playing opposite Sid and Geno on the power play?

The Pens will be just fine without Kessel, let's see what he does in Zona when he isn't getting soft matchups. I expect his relationship with Tochet will sour quickly.
- MacPatty

Kessel was a +8 at 5v5 last season so you're wrong.

Saying he padded his stats on the PP is also wrong, considering the entire PP was funneled through him on the half wall.

Too many effing millennials here today.

I still think Ruhwedel has more to offer. I think he’ll grow a bit if given the opportunity. He looked good in a limited showing last year. Plus he has the same birthday as Vic
- WSCTeton17

Ditto. Decent skater and competent with the puck on his stick too. Honestly, it's kind of absurd he was sitting while Rikki and JJ were butchering things most of the season.

Too many effing millennials here today.
- Thunderbolt

Lmao

Ditto. Decent skater and competent with the puck on his stick too. Honestly, it's kind of absurd he was sitting while Rikki and JJ were butchering things most of the season.
- madmike71

The one thing that would bother me about if we had to play him on his unnatural side it could lead to an injury. Often times when you aren’t on your natural side you can’t move the puck as quickly and it leads to the player setting himself up to get hit more. That would stink 🥺

ZAR to arbitration.

Galchenyuk is on his 3rd team in half the amount of time as Kessel, why the hell do we want someone like that?
- j.boyd919

We shouldn't

ZAR to arbitration.
- burgh4life87

Is it wrong that the first thing I thought of is that makes us eligible for the second buyout window.

Is it wrong that the first thing I thought of is that makes us eligible for the second buyout window.
- Tojo.

Same here....

I don't see why he has to change his game considering that's what got him to the show and got him the paycheck he's making. Why would he change? Adam Oates tried to change Ovi and Ovi was dogpoop that year.
- j.boyd919

Because he's losing a step and needs to adjust since he can't blow by defenders anymore.

Because he wasn't that good of a 5v5 player, so I wouldn't say it was working. How the first and third lines played was working (playoffs aside, where nothing worked)

They'll miss him on that PP though

I was just looking at Beau Bennett’s salary over his career. The dude made some money. He’s 27 and he’s guaranteed to make $250,000 this year - good for him

I still think Ruhwedel has more to offer. I think he’ll grow a bit if given the opportunity. He looked good in a limited showing last year. Plus he has the same birthday as Vic
- WSCTeton17

I think the thing that holds Ruhwedel back is he's such a horrible penalty killer, because he's fine at ES. Wouldn't be a problem if the other 2 RD could kill, but Schultz...

Actually, I'd love it if they could play him at LD next to Gudbranson if he can handle the switch.

Kessel was a +8 at 5v5 last season so you're wrong.

Saying he padded his stats on the PP is also wrong, considering the entire PP was funneled through him on the half wall.
- j.boyd919

I know that wasn't the original context, but Hornqvist was also a +8 5v5. It's not a great accomplishment for a supposed elite player, playing with an elite center.

Totally agree on the PP though, Phil ran that.

I know that wasn't the original context, but Hornqvist was also a +8 5v5. It's not a great accomplishment for a supposed elite player, playing with an elite center.

Totally agree on the PP though, Phil ran that.
- Tojo.

If Phil was +8 5v5 how did he end up -19 ? Serious question.....

27 goal swing couldn't be all 4v4 and shorties against?

Is it wrong that the first thing I thought of is that makes us eligible for the second buyout window.
- Tojo.

Hahahahaha - Maybe JR's master plan. Refuse to sign ZAR, force arbitration for a guy destined to make 800k - open up a second F.U.J.J. window?

I know that wasn't the original context, but Hornqvist was also a +8 5v5. It's not a great accomplishment for a supposed elite player, playing with an elite center.

Totally agree on the PP though, Phil ran that.
- Tojo.

Yeah but the argument was that we were greatly outscored with him on the ice despite his production at ES. I'm not a believer in +/-, but in this case it disproves out of hand that guy's premise. We did, in fact, score more goals while Phil Kessel was on the ice than we let up.

If Phil was +8 5v5 how did he end up -19 ? Serious question.....

27 goal swing couldn't be all 4v4 and shorties against?
- RoloTahmasee

He. That doesn't add up. Boyd, what's your source on that +8 number?

EDIT: Wait, don't you get a minus for being on the ice during a shorty? Cus that might explain it. I know we gave up a lot of shorty's last season but that still seems staggering to go to a -19 from a +8 at ES.

He. That doesn't add up. Boyd, what's your source on that +8 number?

EDIT: Wait, don't you get a minus for being on the ice during a shorty? Cus that might explain it. I know we gave up a lot of shorty's last season but that still seems staggering to go to a -19 from a +8 at ES.
- Victoro311

Yes, you do, but we didn't give up 27 shorties.... DID WE?

Kinda takes some of the shine off those PP numbers if we did

Hockey Reference has him on the ice for 56 even strength Goals For

And on the ice for 75 even strength or (our PP ie:shortie) Goals Against, There's the -19

His Corsi was also 47.4 on 65.6% offensive zone starts

Yes, you do, but we didn't give up 27 shorties.... DID WE?

Kinda takes some of the shine off those PP numbers if we did
- RoloTahmasee

Yeah there's no (frank)ing way we gave up 27 shorties. We probably gave up close to 10. You are right, the plus minus figure makes no sense unless we let up a goal literally every time Phil was on the ice for a 4v4.

Yes, you do, but we didn't give up 27 shorties.... DID WE?

Kinda takes some of the shine off those PP numbers if we did

Hockey Reference has him on the ice for 56 even strength Goals For

And on the ice for 75 even strength or (our PP ie:shortie) Goals Against, There's the -19

His Corsi was also 47.4 on 65.6% offensive zone starts
- RoloTahmasee

I'm not sure I want to buy totally into it because he was saddled with Johnson at ES a lot this season, but the raw stats definitely suggest Kessel's ES product is slipping. Personally I think that has to do with the bad blue line he played with, but Phil's value as an elite player definitely came out of the PP last year, which make no mistake is gonna suck trying to replace. I don't want to concern troll the PP when we still have Crosby and Malkin, but as of now it doesn't look like we have anyone for that left half wall and it's a concern.

Yeah there's no (frank)ing way we gave up 27 shorties. We probably gave up close to 10. You are right, the plus minus figure makes no sense unless we let up a goal literally every time Phil was on the ice for a 4v4.
- Victoro311

Looking at it can’t help but think how Trouba would’ve elevated this teams chances with him in the lineup 😂

Hahahahaha - Maybe JR's master plan. Refuse to sign ZAR, force arbitration for a guy destined to make 800k - open up a second F.U.J.J. window?
- RoloTahmasee

You need two club elected arbitrations for a second buyout window. We are not eligible.

Yeah but the argument was that we were greatly outscored with him on the ice despite his production at ES. I'm not a believer in +/-, but in this case it disproves out of hand that guy's premise. We did, in fact, score more goals while Phil Kessel was on the ice than we let up.
- Victoro311

Yep, that's why I said it wasn't the original context. My point was, Phil wasn't making a big difference at 5v5, even with Malkin, despite heavy O zone starts. So I disagree everything was fine.