John Tavares and Ryan O'Reilly. Their skating would make Kristy Yamaguchi cringe. But they know how to play the game over 200 feet of ice. If Dach duplicates what those guys bring to the game, he will do very well. Same with Strome.
- RickJ

OK, I know I get too wordy and the point I'm trying to make or question I'm trying to ask gets lost, so I'll try to be succinct ...

Does Dach have a higher ceiling than Strome, and if yes - why?

I'm torn on Dach making the team. I believe prospects should get time in the minors but by the sounds of things Dach already has a sound two way game. If he does make the Hawks it's been suggested he will start as a winger.
- paulr

I don't think there is anything to be torn about. If he shows well in camp, he might make the team (depending on who else they bring in this offseason). If he plays well enough (in the team's eyes, not ours) in the first 9 games, they'll keep him up. Otherwise, he plays in the lower level.

Considering the talking points we've heard thus far, it seems like they will not accept missing the playoffs again this year. If Dach is not playing up to the standards that they have set, they are not going to rush him (like Henri being sent down).

OK, I know I get too wordy and the point I'm trying to make or question I'm trying to ask gets lost, so I'll try to be succinct ...

Does Dach have a higher ceiling than Strome, and if yes - why?
- EbonyRaptor

Dach is already better defensively than Strome, so there's that.

Dach is already better defensively than Strome, so there's that.
- L_B_R

Point taken.

But Strome is criticized for his skating and Dach is not. When I watch both of them skate I don't see much differentiation, especially when pivoting.

OK, I know I get too wordy and the point I'm trying to make or question I'm trying to ask gets lost, so I'll try to be succinct ...

Does Dach have a higher ceiling than Strome, and if yes - why?
- EbonyRaptor

I think the only way you can really evaluate that is by asking "what was Strome's ceiling when he was drafted?". Not to mention how real was his production once he came to the Hawks. I've advocated a couple times to see how he plays with anyone other than ADB just to see if he can drive production with others.

From what I've seen and researched on Dach, I believe he has a higher ceiling simply because he is more well rounded. If you combine Strome's offense with Toews level defense, (everyone please note I started this sentence with the word IF), I think you have a 1C.

And you thought you were wordy...

I call BS on this. Those teams may or may not think like that, but rarely if ever advertised it, rather they will "spin" a pick that close is being we got the guy we wanted and given picks 3 - 9 were all interchangeable and there was no moving down it tells me those teams just decided to take the guy who fell and be happy with it. So unless the GM Of LA or Col actually come out and say, "yea, we wanted the guy who just got taken ahead of the guy we got" then it's nonsense or at best conjecture.

This is the post-draft feel good moment, but the bottom line is the upside of Dach is probably no different than the guy taken 9th. If Dach was clearly ahead of everyone else, then there sure were not many lists showing it.

Will he be good? Yea maybe, but so could any of the 3-9s. But none are sure things that's for sure. The closest thing to sure things were 1 and 2 and even those two are not suggested to be "generational" talent.
- kwolf68

LA GM Blake personally scouted Dach at one of his games... not one of his staff, not his head of amateur scouting, Blake himself took the time to see Dach play.

OK, I know I get too wordy and the point I'm trying to make or question I'm trying to ask gets lost, so I'll try to be succinct ...

Does Dach have a higher ceiling than Strome, and if yes - why?
- EbonyRaptor

Yes, cuz he's taller

I don't think there is anything to be torn about. If he shows well in camp, he might make the team (depending on who else they bring in this offseason). If he plays well enough (in the team's eyes, not ours) in the first 9 games, they'll keep him up. Otherwise, he plays in the lower level.

Considering the talking points we've heard thus far, it seems like they will not accept missing the playoffs again this year. If Dach is not playing up to the standards that they have set, they are not going to rush him (like Henri being sent down).
- Chunk

The NHL is full of players hurried to the big club who never reach their potential, arguably because the skill they were weak at in Junior or college was never improved. What if Duncan Keith had made the Hawks right from junior and never had those two years learning how to play defense under Trent Yawney. Do you think he'd be the three time Stanley cup winner, 2 time Norris trophy winner and future Hall of Famer he is today?

Point taken.

But Strome is criticized for his skating and Dach is not. When I watch both of them skate I don't see much differentiation, especially when pivoting.
- EbonyRaptor

The biggest knock on Dach is his skating, actually (though the concern is overblown imo). It's not the same issue that Strome has, though - Strome has a slow stride and is just average in-zone for movement; Dach's first step is on the slower side but his speed once going is more than fine and his agility/edge-work in-zone is great esp for his size.

Tbf to Strome, he's made progress on his skating just over the last season. Idk what Arizona was doing with him, but it wasn't working and yet he looked markedly better as the season progressed with Chicago.

I think the only way you can really evaluate that is by asking "what was Strome's ceiling when he was drafted?". Not to mention how real was his production once he came to the Hawks. I've advocated a couple times to see how he plays with anyone other than ADB just to see if he can drive production with others.

From what I've seen and researched on Dach, I believe he has a higher ceiling simply because he is more well rounded. If you combine Strome's offense with Toews level defense, (everyone please note I started this sentence with the word IF), I think you have a 1C.

And you thought you were wordy...
- Chunk

I think you have a good idea to play Strome away from Cat to get a better assessment of him.

The biggest knock on Dach is his skating, actually (though the concern is overblown imo). It's not the same issue that Strome has, though - Strome has a slow stride and is just average in-zone for movement; Dach's first step is on the slower side but his speed once going is more than fine and his agility/edge-work in-zone is great esp for his size.

Tbf to Strome, he's made progress on his skating just over the last season. Idk what Arizona was doing with him, but it wasn't working and yet he looked markedly better as the season progressed with Chicago.
- L_B_R

So basically the main reason is Dach's edge work is superior to Strome. OK, I can buy that.

And I agree that Strome seemed to get better as the season went on.

Interesting dual offer sheet idea FWIW:

San Jose Sharks: This might be the most enticing of all of the groups available. After signing Erik Karlsson to a monster max contract, money is tight again in San Jose. They have Joe Pavelski, Joe Thornton and Gustav Nyquist sitting without contracts, and Timo Meier and Kevin Labanc sitting as restricted free agents. Meier’s 74-point 2018-19 season surely spiked his contractual demands, but you wonder if you can draw interest from Meier by way of a shorter-term bridge deal at the top of the compensation range (around $6-million AAV), and parlay that with a smaller-sized contract the way of Kevin Labanc. Meier is an integral piece for San Jose and they will fight hard to keep him. To that end, perhaps targeting Labanc – who had 56 points last year – in a lower tier could bring an impact middle-six forward at a very reasonable price.

Chicago should offer sheet him and yes payback is a female dog!I know that's not Stan's style but it would be fitting.
- eagle50

LA GM Blake personally scouted Dach at one of his games... not one of his staff, not his head of amateur scouting, Blake himself took the time to see Dach play.
- Chief4Feathers

Kings were definitely going to pick Dah if he was available.

Interesting dual offer sheet idea FWIW:

San Jose Sharks: This might be the most enticing of all of the groups available. After signing Erik Karlsson to a monster max contract, money is tight again in San Jose. They have Joe Pavelski, Joe Thornton and Gustav Nyquist sitting without contracts, and Timo Meier and Kevin Labanc sitting as restricted free agents. Meier’s 74-point 2018-19 season surely spiked his contractual demands, but you wonder if you can draw interest from Meier by way of a shorter-term bridge deal at the top of the compensation range (around $6-million AAV), and parlay that with a smaller-sized contract the way of Kevin Labanc. Meier is an integral piece for San Jose and they will fight hard to keep him. To that end, perhaps targeting Labanc – who had 56 points last year – in a lower tier could bring an impact middle-six forward at a very reasonable price.
- walleyeb1

After the 2010 season SJ offer sheeted Niemi and Hjalmarsson forcing Chicago to match Hammer and lose Niemi. Payback could be a female dog for SJ, couldn't it?

Kings were definitely going to pick Dah if he was available.
- LAHawk

Let me guess, you have sources?

The NHL is full of players hurried to the big club who never reach their potential, arguably because the skill they were weak at in Junior or college was never improved. What if Duncan Keith had made the Hawks right from junior and never had those two years learning how to play defense under Trent Yawney. Do you think he'd be the three time Stanley cup winner, 2 time Norris trophy winner and future Hall of Famer he is today?
- paulr

Agreed. I think we are saying the same things. I didn't think there was much to be worried about with Dach because I believe that the Hawks aren't going to keep him up unless they are pretty certain he can handle it (they were really high on Boqvist and sent him back down even with that collection we started the year with).

Now, if they force him up because he is the shiny new object, I think we all need to be worried.

By the way... am I the only one who hears "Datch" in my head every time I type Dach?

Let me guess, you have sources?
- paulr

Nope, just going by what the local chatter was.

Dach is already better defensively than Strome, so there's that.
- L_B_R

I agree with you and I hope Strome focuses on that more and more.

Generational talents come once every ........ Wait for it ........ Generation!

I don't think there is a Generational talent currently playing in the NHL, McDavid maybe??? I think you can count on perhaps two hands the number of players classified as generational talents in the history of the NHL.

All that said, we as fans have no idea if Dach is better or worse than Turcotte or Cozens or Byram or KK or Hughes. In fact the "experts" can't logistically see each player enough in live games to differentiate between players that are close in ability, then on top of that you have to factor in things like competition, how good or bad that prospect's team is etc.. Analytics help provide a better picture. Then on top of all an "expert" has to determine how good a player will be in 1-3-5-10 years.

You're right Dach may be not be beter than 9th overall, but he may also be the best of this draft's crop, or anywhere in between.
- paulr

I don’t much care whether or not Dach turns out to be better than Turcotte, Cozens, or others in this draft class.

He “just” has to turn out to be a quality top-line or second-line center on a Cup-contending team.

After the 2010 season SJ offer sheeted Niemi and Hjalmarsson forcing Chicago to match Hammer and lose Niemi. Payback could be a female dog for SJ, couldn't it?

- paulr

Hammer took the offer sheet. I believe niemi I got a higher award then the hawks wanted to pay and just walked away from him

By the way... am I the only one who hears "Datch" in my head every time I type Dach?
- Chunk

I hear what's up Dach ala bugs bunny.

After the 2010 season SJ offer sheeted Niemi and Hjalmarsson forcing Chicago to match Hammer and lose Niemi. Payback could be a female dog for SJ, couldn't it?

- paulr

The Sharks didn't offer sheet Niemi. The Hawks took him to arbitration and Niemi was awarded a much higher contract that forced the Hawks to walk away.

Pretty sure Colliton has said they haven't introduced the entire system yet and needs a camp to truly implement it. But that's ok, I have you down in the "Colliton sucks" and "Dach will be a bust" ledger. It's important to get ahead of these things before they've had a chance to play out.
- HawkintheD

Please enter me in the following categories:

‘Colliton sucks’

&

‘Dach will be amazing’

Thank you!